Playing bass buttons pulls air from sustained treble notes and “pulses” them … what’s causing this?

[AlicePalace]

Hi there — I am new to accordions and am not sure what’s up with the little 26/48 Giulietti PA that I bought (used). I have noticed that when I am playing a sustained note in the treble, playing rhythm (oom-pah-pah and the like) in the bass causes the treble note to pulse with the rhythm, as if each press of the bass (any button) is pulling air from the sustained treble note (any key). I don’t think the cause is me pulsing the bellows, because in testing this out there is no amount of smoothness in the bellows that seems to make it stop. Is this normal? It seems really obvious to me, and I think it only started sounding like this after I opened it up to clean the inside of the bellows and inspect the reeds/leathers. Could I have inadvertently done something that’s causing this? Or does the bass *always* pull air from the treble and cause this auditory phenomenon, and I’m only just noticing it?

 

[Dingo40]

Sounds like a question for JimD or Paul Debra?

 

[JerryPH]

Possibilities:
- beginner lack of bellows control
- pulling to hard and the bass is not as sealed off as it needs to be

 

[AlicePalace]

Possibilities:
- beginner lack of bellows control
- pulling to hard and the bass is not as sealed off as it needs to be

Thanks for these. It happens no matter how hard (or not) the bellows are being pulled or pushed. That said, perhaps it’s still a sealing issue …

 

[Ffingers]

Thanks for these. It happens no matter how hard (or not) the bellows are being pulled or pushed. That said, perhaps it’s still a sealing issue …

That could be over come by hitting the instrument with sealing whacks

 

[debra]

Jerry hit it on the nail with "beginner lack of bellows control", but this is also compounded with the small size of the accordion and bellows.
The trouble is that to have a steady sound coming from the sustained treble note the air pressure on that reed needs to be constant. But the bass notes open up "air holes" that make it difficult to keep the pressure constant. Your arm also has to keep that pressure constant while the movement changes (due to more holes being opened). These changes in movement (in the speed at which the bellows open or close) are smaller on a large heavy accordion than on a small light one. So you are hit by lack of experience plus an accordion on which the constant pressure is harder to maintain... But that offers a good training opportunity! Once you master keeping the sustained note sounding without pulsing on your small accordion you will be able to do it on any accordion.

 

[AlicePalace]

Jerry hit it on the nail with "beginner lack of bellows control", but this is also compounded with the small size of the accordion and bellows.
The trouble is that to have a steady sound coming from the sustained treble note the air pressure on that reed needs to be constant. But the bass notes open up "air holes" that make it difficult to keep the pressure constant. Your arm also has to keep that pressure constant while the movement changes (due to more holes being opened). These changes in movement (in the speed at which the bellows open or close) are smaller on a large heavy accordion than on a small light one. So you are hit by lack of experience plus an accordion on which the constant pressure is harder to maintain... But that offers a good training opportunity! Once you master keeping the sustained note sounding without pulsing on your small accordion you will be able to do it on any accordion.

Jerry hit it on the nail with "beginner lack of bellows control", but this is also compounded with the small size of the accordion and bellows.
The trouble is that to have a steady sound coming from the sustained treble note the air pressure on that reed needs to be constant. But the bass notes open up "air holes" that make it difficult to keep the pressure constant. Your arm also has to keep that pressure constant while the movement changes (due to more holes being opened). These changes in movement (in the speed at which the bellows open or close) are smaller on a large heavy accordion than on a small light one. So you are hit by lack of experience plus an accordion on which the constant pressure is harder to maintain... But that offers a good training opportunity! Once you master keeping the sustained note sounding without pulsing on your small accordion you will be able to do it on any accordion.

Thanks so much, Paul, for this clear and thoughtful explanation. I’ve got lots to learn, that’s for sure. I think you are right, that this little accordion may just not be able to do this very well due to its limitations, so I could well end up purchasing something bigger if I get serious enough about it.

 

[AlicePalace]

That could be over come by hitting the instrument with sealing whacks

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[debra]

Thanks so much, Paul, for this clear and thoughtful explanation. I’ve got lots to learn, that’s for sure. I think you are right, that this little accordion may just not be able to do this very well due to its limitations, so I could well end up purchasing something bigger if I get serious enough about it.

First just practice on what you have. If you can get close to a nice sustained note while playing rhythm in the bass you will do better on a bigger accordion later. The trouble of combining treble and bass side is one of the reasons accordion ensembles and orchestras almost never use both sides simultaneously. (Having different dynamics between voices is of course another good reason.)

 

[Airy]

I think you are right, that this little accordion may just not be able to do this very well due to its limitations, so I could well end up purchasing something bigger if I get serious enough about it.

Alice, don‘t think of it as a limitation. Think of it as highly sensitive and dynamicly expressiv.
I like to over-emphasize the beat by putting a short additional pressure-pulse into the bellows on every count. That not only gives the bass more ”umpf” but also puts an underlying rhythmic pulse to the melody line. Watch Tango accordion/bandoneon players as an example. THIS IS THE ADVANTAGE of a hand driven bellows, otherwise you could rather play church organ (although this may not fall into the same weight category )

 

[Alan Sharkis]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

What’s the matter —,you never heard of percussive maintenance? It works on my 1955 Buick Special (just kidding.)

But seriously, folks, don’t do it on ancaccordion!

 

[Ffingers]

What’s the matter —,you never heard of percussive maintenance? It works on my 1955 Buick Special (just kidding.)

But seriously, folks, don’t do it on ancaccordion!

What? No “hit” music??

 

[John Doe]

It could easily be that you have simply become more attuned to the nuances of the sound since you've been playing more and that bellows control et al is the issue.

But aside from sagaciously nodding our collective metaphoric "old grey beards" and victim shaming (perhaps a bit much there as I don't think anyone has posted with anything except a sincere desire to help), did you perchance do anything with the bass blocks as you cleaned and spruced up the interior?

Were the bass blocks to be a bit loose- and they should be held against the foundation plate firmly, but not jammed down- they could wind up still sounding but consuming an abnormally large whoosh of air when played. A very quick check; just pull the pins and observe the bass blocks. They shouldn't rock at all when pushed gently back and forth. If there's movement at either end of the blocks thery're really simple to pull as you probably know. First check the end that slips under whatever ledge your instrument has to hold down the blocks. That should not be super tight- but also should allow no play. A shim with a bit of paper/tape/ sheet teflon can easily adjust this if it's an issue. Swing the hold down latch closed at the other end of the block and ensure that it is also a snug but not Schwarzengger grip.

May well be technique- but novice (as in probably most "just for fun") players- really wouldn't have this stand out to them. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, but in a decent accordion (and yours appears to surely be a "decent" model) it's usually not an issue commented upon by teh preponderance of players until after pretty substantial noodling.


Happy squeezing-

Henry

PS And if all is well mechanically but it pulses and YOU can hear/feel it and that annoys you, more power to you- you're the one playing it. I am not at all trying to be dismissive. I have spent untold hours on small but enraging (to me) issues with assorted intruments

 

[JIM D.]

I have to echo jerry & paul's answer that your problem is lack of roper bellows control. Many self taught
accordionists learn this and find it a bad habit is hard to remedy in the future.
I see you are in MA and I recommend you take a few lessons on bellows control.

Conntact Sam Falcetti at 413 204 5522 . I'm a accordion tech for Falcetti's and if need be I can take care of
any problems with your accordion.

Falcetti Music - Music Lessons, Musical Instruments, Band & Orchestra, Pianos

www.falcettimusic.com