• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks (Click the "X" to the top right of this message to disable it)

Quint vs chromatic/melody free bass legato playing.

Status
Not open for further replies.

craigd

Active member
Joined
Apr 8, 2019
Messages
179
Reaction score
100
Location
Nanaimo, BC
Hello all,
I've worked at standard cba style free bass (only 3 rows) for a little while and find legato playing of some chromatic and scale passages difficult. I have not tried quint and I'm wondering if it's any easier in that regard.
 
Well - how easy do you find playing a legato melody (with range less than one octave) on Stradella single-note buttons?

I think you'll find the same basic issues of coordinating raising one finger and lowering another, whether you are playing freebass or quint or Stradella.

I don't know if this applies to you --- but it seems we have a whole generation of North American accordionists who are taught they must always peck at the bass buttons as if they had four chicken beaks instead of fingers on their left hand. I know why people are taught that way -- yes, 9 or more reeds in the bass will drown out 1 or 2 in the treble, if you have the bass master on and hold down a chord button. But it seems to prevent people from ever learning how to hold down a bass button.
 
I just tried it to make sure. I find it a bit easier on stradella. There are some tight crossovers with the c system bass where I have to lift my fingers away to get the others underneath. Maybe with four or five rows this would not be an issue. Has anyone else found this to be the case?
 
To play legato on any free bass system is a lot more a function of the player than the style. To do so takes flexibility, practice and lots of time.

There is no perfect system, as each has it's own advantage. Just as a short/ugly example, playing straight scales is easier on a quint than an MIII. Playing chromatic scales on an MIII is childs play but a true challenge on a quint. The differences go on and on. Choose any system and master it, for 95% of us, we cannot go wrong.
 
To play legato on any free bass system is a lot more a function of the player than the style. To do so takes flexibility, practice and lots of time.

There is no perfect system, as each has it's own advantage. Just as a short/ugly example, playing straight scales is easier on a quint than an MIII. Playing chromatic scales on an MIII is childs play but a true challenge on a quint. The differences go on and on. Choose any system and master it, for 95% of us, we cannot go wrong.
Thanks Jerry, I'm sure you're right. You've got the stradella and mIII system eh? Like Joe Macerollo and Joseph Petric, fellow Canadians I bet you're familiar with.
 
Hello all,
I've worked at standard cba style free bass (only 3 rows) for a little while and find legato playing of some chromatic and scale passages difficult. I have not tried quint and I'm wondering if it's any easier in that regard.
Actually, the ability to play legato depends mostly on the fingering. You need to find a fingering series that allows you to play each run legato. On a chromatic convertor accordion there are typically 4 rows so you have a "redundant" copy of the first row and that allows for different fingering possibilities that help to play legato. And you get even more fingering possibilities when you learn to use the thumb on the first row.
On quint convertor this is less so as you do not have redundant notes so close by. There are convertor accordions with just 3 rows (especially the ones with 3+3 Stradella) and then there is MIII with three separate melody bass rows. These also offer no redundant extra row to make fingering easy.
 
Actually, the ability to play legato depends mostly on the fingering. You need to find a fingering series that allows you to play each run legato. On a chromatic convertor accordion there are typically 4 rows so you have a "redundant" copy of the first row and that allows for different fingering possibilities that help to play legato. And you get even more fingering possibilities when you learn to use the thumb on the first row.
On quint convertor this is less so as you do not have redundant notes so close by. There are convertor accordions with just 3 rows (especially the ones with 3+3 Stradella) and then there is MIII with three separate melody bass rows. These also offer no redundant extra row to make fingering easy.
Thanks Paul, Because I'm new to cba and free bass and lack the time and talent to make the transition in this lifetime, I'm probably going to return to the PA and, if I can find one, try quint bass.
 
Hi @craigd, I have heard there might be 'one or two' Palmer & Hughes Titanos floating about the USA...

Shame there's no such thing as a MIII Chromatic Quinverter (aka JerryPH converter). What a thought....:unsure: We could get JerryPH to endorse it and write 20 or 30 method books for it. Split the profits down the middle 60/40! 🤣

Wow - a PA or CBA with stradella bass & 3 rows of chromatic free bass. BUT the stradella has a converter to change the bass to quint.

Just a thought... and then freebass harmony will forever be returned to the mild and gentle citizens of Accordionland 😀

...patent pending.🙃
 
Last edited:
Thanks Jerry, I'm sure you're right. You've got the stradella and mIII system eh? Like Joe Macerollo and Joseph Petric, fellow Canadians I bet you're familiar with.
Yes I am familiar with them. I was even blessed a couple of times that Joe Macerollo sat in for my Free Bass instructor during my time at the Royal Conservatory in Toronto a few decades ago. Both Glen Sawich and Macerollo were/are amazing people.
 
I don't know if this applies to you --- but it seems we have a whole generation of North American accordionists who are taught they must always peck at the bass buttons as if they had four chicken beaks instead of fingers on their left hand. I know why people are taught that way -- yes, 9 or more reeds in the bass will drown out 1 or 2 in the treble, if you have the bass master on and hold down a chord button. But it seems to prevent people from ever learning how to hold down a bass button.

I love that - pecking at the bass buttons!

I've been trying to learn the exact opposite because on my favourite stradella register on my accordion there is a single very low bass reed that plays on its own and takes a little longer to register on the ear than the following chord. So the trick is to squeeze the bass note long and legato into the following chord, otherwise your ear misses it because of the depth.

I've noticed on freebass accordions that there is a tendency for otherwise very good players to peck at left hand notes whilst keeping a legato right hand. That just sounds plain daft to me, perhaps it got ingrained in them from pecking stradella 😉
 
When I was young and going for accordion lessons I was always encouraged to play the basses steady and staccato. However, that is because like most accordion players in Scotland I was learning to play Scottish music, which is mainly a type of dance music. Marches (usually 2/4, 4/4 or 6/8), two-steps, jigs, reels, strathspeys etc. - all types of tune for dancing too. Now I don't mention is often enough, but I will now, Scotland has a marvellous accordion tradition, a very old and rich tradition. From the East Coast style (Shand), the West Coast style (MacLeod), the music based on fiddle tunes (Scott Skinner music etc.), the Pipe music tradition and Gaelic airs. That's not to mention the many fine accordionists - hundreds of them from the far North to the Borders. And even today the traditional music scene is very vibrant. There is no shortage of good young accordionists. There's a champion player round every corner it seems. I would even say there are perhaps more Hohner Golas and Morinos in Scotland than almost any country outside Germany. Scotland was and is one of the accordion capitals of the world in my humble view. And virtually all for traditional music with stradella bass. But the key thing in Scottish dance music is this - a rock solid tempo. I was always taught (by a truly wonderful accordion teacher called Mr. Peter Farnan) to lead with the bass. Think bass, he used to say. Attack those basses. I will never forget those words. It was crisp, intentional and rhythmic bass playing all the way. He was some teacher, but he got results. I would reckon he taught more Scottish champions than perhaps any other accordion teacher in the country. Dozens of them. I am embarrassed to say it, but even I was fortunate to have been both a Scottish and United Kingdom champion in Scottish accordion categories back in the dim and distant past. But there were no legato basses there. But that was for a certain type of Scottish music. That style is all about a crisp, attacking bass that is keeping the fine Scottish melodies on track. Just saying. :)

Now, after that trip down memory lane I will make a brief attempt at the actual subject of conversation. :LOL:

If you want to play a legato note sequence, you just execute the sound by playing in a smooth and connected way. That's how I see it. It's about making the sound, I don't criticise other's systems for it. I just enjoy what I have. I am sure Jerry is right, one system is not better or worse, most of the time it's the technique of the individual that is better or worse. At the end of the day we are all accordionists who love the instrument.

What I do think is useful about the chromatic converter is that you get one repeated note on every 4th row (in the chromatic sequence), which may be useful for enabling comfortable finger work. You then also have two rows of stradella to help out with the low notes if the chromatically arranged notes are too far away from your current finger position. I like it, good system, especially for the button accordionist, and I do like the C griff version in particular in the Italian classical accordion tradition.

However, in the interest of fairness, I would also point out that on quint converter with it's different philosophy, not of semitones but of fifths, every single note will typically have additional repeat notes over the space of the bass board. Unlike the broadly vertical arrangement of notes on chromatic systems the quint system works on a more horizontal plane, and so requires a slightly different technique to regular stradella bass (and very different to chromatic converters), because of the new pathways available. This allows a large range of notes to be accessed with minimal movement. So the position of your regular C fundamental bass on stradella to the typical position of G7 - that's a 36 note stretch. That's why for quint players a wrist glove for the bass is a bit of a fashion accessory (please don't tell Grayson I said that :ROFLMAO:) as wrist sliding is minimal.

I hope to get the opportunity to play a chromatic converter accordion some time, but they are quite rare here - but hopefully soon. I wonder if playing piano and button accordion would make me a multi instrumentalist:unsure:. I think I would like to do that.​
 
Last edited:
Actually, the ability to play legato depends mostly on the fingering.
In essence, yes exactly, BUT fingering is not the same for all Free Bass systems. Let's take a look at a simple C: scale and a simple arpeggio in C. The scale is SO EASY to play smoothly on the Qiuint system, but arpeggios, not as easy. On the MIII, the scale is challenging going from the G-note to A-note (you literally must move the 2nd finger UNDER the 4th finger and unless you are double joined, that"s not easy... lol). Arpeggios on the MIII are very easy to 4 octave runs up and down are very easy to do smoothly without any challenging fingering positions.

Those were the kinds of advantages that I was speaking of, its always a compromise and one has to kind of pick and choose one's battles. I can play a scale smoothly, but not at the speeds I would want (I'm at around 250-275bpm legato, 300-325 staccato), I'd like to be able to be as quick on the left hand as I am on the right hand... all in good time I hope).
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top