Reeds used in Hohners

[Morne]

I will expand this first post with more information (dates, models, photos) as this topic develops.

A note on the terminology: Hohner uses the word Mensur (e.g. H-Mensur) which translates to Scale (e.g. H-Scale). For the sake of consistency I will continue with that instead of calling them H reeds.

<SIZE size=85>A lot of the initial information will be from German sources. I have run the texts through Google Translate and then through my own brain to touch up the English where applicable and to reformat it. If this translation process has produced nonsense, please let me know. Some of the translation issues are not because I cannot find the words, but because in the context of reeds I am not sure what they imply.

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<SIZE size=150>Hohner reeds

H-Scale (Later: HT-Scale)
Tongue base: Big, wide
Slot/Air gap: Narrower than T-Scale
Identifying mark: H
Gold anodized initially
Used in: Verdi II, III, V-CB, Lucia III, IV P, Pirola IV P, Favorit IV P [2]

T-Scale
Tongue base: Square (6x6 mm)
Slot gap: Large
Rivet head: Textured or smooth
Riveted by: Machine
Identifying mark: T
Used in: Club II B, Club III M, Student I-IV, Concerto I-III, Amati III, Maestro III

Unknown [4]
Date: Possibly before or during WWII
Identifying mark: HOHNER GERMANY

HT-Scale
Tongue base: Large, square (7x7 mm)
Slot gap: Narrower than T-Scale
Rivet head: Textured or smooth
Riveted by: Machine
Identifying mark:

• Initially: unmarked
• Later: H or HT

Date: Late 1940s, early 1950s
Used in: Early Morino M-series

S-Scale
Tongue base: Large, square (6x6 mm)
Slot gap: Very narrow
Riveted by: Hand
(Unsure) Reed tongues and rivet plates were glued (German: Stimmzunge und Tellerniete mit Kunstharzkleber verklebt)
(Unsure) Sometimes the reed tongues were smoothed (i.e. the texture). OR: (Gap is) equalised (adjusted?) by hand? (German: Stimmzungen manchmal egalisiert)
Identifying mark: dot
Used in: Older Atlantics

A-E Scale
Replaced: S-Scale
Tongue base: Large, square (7x7 mm)
Similar design as S-Scale
(Unsure) Equalised(adjusted?) by hand (German: Tonzungen egalisiert)
Slot gap: Very narrow
Reed frame: Partially gold-anodized
Identifying mark: dot
Used in: Atlantic, Imperator IV and V, Maestro IV, Club Ouvertüre, Club Morino

Artiste-Scale
Similar design as A-E Scale
Slot gap: Very, very narrow
(Unsure) Equalised(adjusted?) by hand (German: Tonzungen egalisiert)
Rivet head:

• Flat
• Half round (domed?)

Reed frame: Partially gold-anodized
Reed tongues: Reground across the tongue (horizontally)
Identifying mark:

• Sometimes nothing
• Sometimes Artiste on those with the large, flat rivet heads
• Usually Ariste on those with the half round rivet heads

Date:

• Early, mid 1950s (gold frames, large rivet plate)

Used in: Organola (1950s, half round rivet head)

Artiste-Scale (later versions)
Reed frame: Natural colored
Identifying mark: None

Super Artiste-Scale
Slot gap: Extremely narrow
(Unsure) Equalised(adjusted?) (German: egalisiert)
Riveted: By hand/hammer
Identifying mark: 1, 2, 3 diagonal lines in the corner
Used in: Later Morino M-series(Before they switched to Italian reeds)

ACS-Scale
Replaced: S-Scale, AE-Scale, Artiste-Scale
Date: 1990 onward

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<SIZE size=150>Italian reeds

Bugari
Date: Starting from the 1960s
Identifying mark: Bugari on one/some of the plates.
Used in: Morino VM (120 bass, 1959) [3], Morino N-series

Cagnoni
Identifying mark: Cagnoni on the E3 plate, nothing on the rest.
Used in: Morino

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<SIZE size=150>Most likely Italian (or unnamed Italian or unspecified)

HA I-Mensur
Used in: Gola

HA II-Mensur
Used in: Alpina, Morino

HA II E-Mensur
Used in: Morino IV 96, IV 120, V 120
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Sources
[1] http://www.stringsandboxes.de/Die-Stimmstoecke
[2] http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/hohner-verdi-iii-m-welche-mensur.300102/#post-3400314
[3] http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/welches-morino-modell-ist-das.381448/#post-4743891
[4] http://www.musiker-board.de/threads/hohner-stimmplatten-hohner-germany.519018/
[5] http://docslide.us/documents/hohnerspare-parts-price-list-2010-engl-version.html
[6] http://www.sonor.com/fileadmin/hohn...ents/price_lists/Spare_Accordion_Consumer.pdf

 

[Soulsaver]

Interesting. I'll guess the "(Unsure) Reed tongues and rivet plates were glued (German: Stimmzunge und Tellerniete mit Kunstharzkleber verklebt)" means reeds glued onto blocks, rather than waxed. They were in the habit of trying different things on Atlantics..

And the super artiste identifying mark - 1 diagonal line in the corner - will start some hearts racing.. I'm sure I've seen lots in relatively low end boxes... 2&3 diagonal are much scarcer.

 

[Anyanka]

re "Stimmzunge und Tellerniete mit Kunstharzkleber verklebt" = literal translation 'reed tongue and plate rivet glued with artificial resin glue'. I don't have much technical knowledge, but I (used to) speak German.
"Stimmzungen manchmal egalisiert" is as you say, 'reeds occasionally equalised' as in 'made the same' or 'levelled'.

 

[Soulsaver]

Thanks A. FTAOD that was how I vaguely understood it. I'm guessing that what it actually means is the reed assembly is stuck & sealed to the block with synthetic resin, not held & sealed with wax as in later (and earlier) practice. Taken as a stand alone statement it could be understood that the tongue is glued to the plate and rivet... which seems unlikely to me.

 

[debra]

Interesting to read there have been so many reed types. The biggest problem with older Hohner accordions in need of repair is finding reeds of the correct type. When you replace one reed (plate) with a different type or brand you can often hear it. This has been a problem also with nice instruments like the Morino IV N, V N and VI N: if a reed needs to be replaced there is no way to find the required Bugari reeds any more except from another Morino that was going to the scrap heap. And you can tell when a different reed is put in place (except in the M-M or M-M-M register where nothing matters much).
Slight error at the end of the list: the Cagnoni reeds are identified by having the name Cagnoni engraved in the E3 reed plates. (E3 is the lowest M note on a Morino VI). Other notes have no identifying mark. The Bugari reeds in the Morino N series also have Bugari engraved somewhere but I forget on which note exactly. (Don't have one here to open up.)

 

[Anyanka]

Taken as a stand alone statement it could be understood that the tongue is glued to the plate and rivet... which seems unlikely to me.

No, it says the tongue is glued to the plate, and the rivet is also glued to the plate.

 

[Soulsaver]

Taken as a stand alone statement it could be understood that the tongue is glued to the plate and rivet... which seems unlikely to me.

No, it says the tongue is glued to the plate, and the rivet is also glued to the plate.

You cant have two goes at a literal translation... but ok, if you say so.
Either way that cant be what it means in the assembly.

 

[TomBR]

Seems reasonable to have the tongue glued to the plate as well as rivetted so that it doesn't shift. When working on reeds I quite often find a dull sounding one is improved by checking that the tongue is straight over the slot, followed by a sharp tap on the rivet to tighten it.

 

[JIM D.]

All free reeds (dating back to bagpipes) have tongues no matter for whatever application, and whatever instrument they are used in, are always single or double riveted to the plate. Single riveted tongues on mediocre machine made reeds will in some cases and for whatever reason will be found to shift in alignment and require proper alignment and the rivet re-hammered. Now resetting that rivet will in 50% of the cases change the pitch of the tongue and require tuning.
No matter the maker, the machine made reed will in most all cases work fine for the accordionist that plays occasionally for fun or entertainment, but for professional or hard uses will only fail in time. On the other hand a quality hand made or hand finished reed will stay in tune even with hard usage, last for 20 to 30 years without maintenance or tuning.
In the long run you really - "Get What You Pay For" :tup:

 

[Morne]

The issue about the glued reeds is exactly my problem. I understood the German in the more literal sense - that the tongue and rivet is glued (to the reed plate). But I've never heard of such a thing, so I considered that they meant that the reeds were glued instead of waxed onto the blocks. But now that Tom has given a possible justification for having the tongue and rivet glued, now I'm just waiting to hear if somebody has actually come across such a thing in practice.

As for the second translation issue regarding "egalisiert". What exactly would equalising or leveling imply? Is this to say that the tongue surface has been smoothed? Or that the reed is adjusted for optimal gaps/performance? Or that it is ensured that the reed tongue is straight and as flat as possible over the gap? I have not come across an English description of reeds that mentioned "equalised", so I am a little unclear about this. I don't want write "Equalised" if that literal translation doesn't say anything.