Replacement reed leathers — get a prepackaged assortment? Order each size separately?

[AlicePalace]

Hi there. I am gearing up to replace all reed leathers on my 41/120 Larenti (LMM, 2 bass registers), and some of the reed leathers on my 26/48 Giulietti (LM, 1 bass register). The online sellers (Bossetto on EBay and others mentioned in this forum in the UK and Italy) offer both assortments and individual sizes. By my calls, I’ll need 318 reeds for the Larenti, and ~200 for the Giulietti (if I did all of them). Given that the leathers run the gamut from high to low, should I take the chance on an assortment being the right proportion of reed sizes for this work? Or should I consider ordering individual sizes? Sorry for such a basic question, I’ve just been stuck on this for 3 weeks and can’t get myself to take the plunge and purchase them. Thanks!

 

[JIM D.]

Alice;
I see you reside in my state (Gods Country) and welcome.
I your case having no existing stock to measure & compare size & thickness with, by all means pick up a
reed assortment kit. With the kit you will be able to record the sizes & # of leathers you will need. There
should be no waste in the kit as a leather that has the same thickness can be trimmed down to size.

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[Gonk]

Bossetto's '3' and '5' will cover most of your needs, with some '1' and '6' at the extreme ends.

 

[AlicePalace]

Alice;
I see you reside in my state (Gods Country) and welcome.
I your case having no existing stock to measure & compare size & thickness with, by all means pick up a
reed assortment kit. With the kit you will be able to record the sizes & # of leathers you will need. There
should be no waste in the kit as a leather that has the same thickness can be trimmed down to size.

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 1

Check out http://accordionrevival.com! AccordionRevival.com How to repair accordions, make accordion repair tools, find and repair air leaks, change leathers, wax reeds, voice reeds, level keyboards.

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Thanks so much, Jim. I suspected as much and am grateful for the confirmation. (I had been hoping to confirm it myself by measuring the leathers in my two accordions, but alas, while I got a lot of information I did not get any clarity, LOL). And thanks for the welcome. Maybe someday I’ll get to meet you “out west” where you are.

 

[Tom]

Wow, big project and I wish you well!!! Are you doing the interior leathers too?

 

[JIM D.]

On that question of interior leathers, yes you replace both !! It will take another thread to explain
the reasoning for this. Mismatched valves can and will effect the tonal quality & air flow.

And Alice;
you will also need a block of reed wax for your endeavor.

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 1

Check out http://accordionrevival.com! AccordionRevival.com How to repair accordions, make accordion repair tools, find and repair air leaks, change leathers, wax reeds, voice reeds, level keyboards.

accordionrevival.com

 

[Javthedog]

Any comments about using a sheet of 0.8 -1 mm calf leather and cutting my own valves would be appreciated......Thanks

 

[JIM D.]

A good try but you will need valves of different thickness & weight for different size reeds.

 

[Javthedog]

OK - thanks for that. Just starting out on the maintenance journey with a box that the club has designated "scrap"!

 

[AlicePalace]

On that question of interior leathers, yes you replace both !! It will take another thread to explain
the reasoning for this. Mismatched valves can and will effect the tonal quality & air flow.

And Alice;
you will also need a block of reed wax for your endeavor.

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 1

Check out http://accordionrevival.com! AccordionRevival.com How to repair accordions, make accordion repair tools, find and repair air leaks, change leathers, wax reeds, voice reeds, level keyboards.

accordionrevival.com

Thank you, Jim! I appreciate you mentioning the necessity of doing both exterior and interior leathers. Most of the interior leathers look okay on my smaller Giulietti, so I had been thinking I would just do the exterior ones that needed it. (I know I’ll have to do ALLLLLL of them in the Larenti). But as you’ve said that doing only one side can/will impact tonal quality and air flow, I guess I’m doing both! Luckily, I included a block of reed wax in my Bossetto order in case I decided I had to remove the reeds to do the interior leathers. I might try the “ship in a bottle” method first because I’m really not sure I want to have to trial-and-error my way to learning how to wax the reeds back on, but I fully expect to do exactly ONE that way, find out how maddening it is, and then cave in and remove the reeds, LOL. We have a soldering iron, and I plan to use that method for the rewaxing.

 

[AlicePalace]

Wow, big project and I wish you well!!! Are you doing the interior leathers too?

Yes, this is a big project! Anddddd, I am also planning on redoing at least some of the bellows tape. The previous owner of the Larenti put Scotch tape (the old, shiny kind) on some spots that were wearing down. So yeah, I have my work cut out for me. Should have started this in February when the weather wasn’t so nice, LOL.

 

[Tom]

Yes, this is a big project! Anddddd, I am also planning on redoing at least some of the bellows tape. The previous owner of the Larenti put Scotch tape (the old, shiny kind) on some spots that were wearing down. So yeah, I have my work cut out for me. Should have started this in February when the weather wasn’t so nice, LOL.

I admire your enthusiasm!

I would never argue with Jim D, because he is right, and knows a million times more than I do about this.

However, may I suggest you do the outside leathers first, and see how bad it sounds to YOU? I don't know if you are planning to use this accordion professionally, or compare it to a top of the line professional instrument.

Then, if it's so bad, redo the interiors.

Then, of course, because you replaced the leathers, you will have to retune all the reeds. And of course then reface all the pallets (and because of that, retune all the reeds.) Then, naturally you will want to replace the bellows gaskets. You will have great fun but have no time to actually play!! Just saying......

 

[John Doe]

I admire your enthusiasm!

As do I.

You might seriously consider springing for a truly junk beyond repair accordion and practicing on the reedblocks. If there's any accordion shop or afficano in your area they probably have, as I do, a small mountain of unserviceable blocks kept "just in case" and they might well part with one gratis or for a nominal charge.

Bungle away and learn from failure- it was junk anyway so you can push your limits and hone your technique before working on a block that counts.

You might also consider affixing your reeds with an adhesive other than wax. Whit leather cement can work quite well. It's easier to work with - especially if you go with the ship in a bottle route. There's still a knack of course- some is really viscose and dries incredibly fast making it hard to dab on properly. Some is really runny meaning that you dab it on (I use a small puddle of the stuff on a piece of paper, slowly drying and gaining viscosity) and then use a plastic straw from an aerosol spray can having waited patiently until is it's still grabby, but not liable to run where it shouldn't.

The white leather glue sticks great to the leather, OK to plastic, fine to metal, and fine to wood. If you get it on the adjacent reed- as with the wax, it's a pain to fully clean (which you'll have to) without pulling the affected reed and then rewaxing it into place. The glue is just fine for leathers- plastic or leather- but not quite so hot for affixing reeds to the block.

Don't scrimp on decent lighting- I use an led "headlight" thingamabob (technical term). Get some decent tweezers and a small rod of some sort to poke into the block on the interior leathers and gently press them down after they are in place and again after a couple of minutes to ensure a good take of the adhesive.

An eBay accordion reed block tester would be a real boon. Nothing like having to reinsert blocks, repin the the bellows closed, and then find out what is and is not right.

YOU CAN DO THIS.

May good fortune smile upon you!

 

[AlicePalace]

YOU CAN DO THIS.

Thank you for the advice and encouragement! Perhaps I’ll try to pick up a beater from Goodwill and practice on that, as you state. I’m just itching to get the Larenti fixed well enough that I can play it with the gang at our weekly jam. It has a couple of pretty wonky notes, and I will be focusing all my efforts at first on replacing its leathers so I can hear how that helps (or hurts) the tuning, and then (very very carefully) spot-tuning the most egregious notes.

I do have a nice, bright headlamp (for camping, yay), as well as a magnifying light, and I have gotten myself some good tweezers and a set of tuning tools (from Ernest Deffner.com). I have multiple small screwdrivers and sundry other bits that should help. And podcasts. Lots of podcasts to keep me from going crazy.

And Tom (as quoted below, because I cannot get the hang of this quote thing), I think that’s a solid strategy. Thank you for giving me ”permission” to try doing just that before I dive into the rest of it. Maybe good enough for ME is going to be good enough PERIOD. I don’t play professionally, so it’s okay if the boxes don’t sound perfect. But what you said about how this is gonna domino made me laugh. It’s like getting a new faucet in your kitchen, which leads to needing a new sink, which means new countertops, which means new cabinets and of course now the floor has to be replaced.

However, may I suggest you do the outside leathers first, and see how bad it sounds to YOU?

 

[JIM D.]

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[John Doe]

It’s like getting a new faucet in your kitchen, which leads to needing a new sink, which means new countertops, which means new cabinets and of course now the floor has to be replaced.

Ain't it the truth.

Remember; the perfect is the enemy of the acceptable.

What is wonky to one may be just fine for another. Pick out the notes that stand out as bad- look at those leathers and replace the outside valves- after a quick going over with a stiff toothbrush to ensure that crud isn't the issue. (You can use compressed air as long as it's not humid inside and you pay attention. If the metal gets too cold it'll wind up with condensation which probably won't corrode with a one time ion free dampening- but also won't do you any good... DO NOT blow on them with a straw- that WILL risk corrosion.)

The quick selective fix method may leave you still unsatisfied, but also might be "good enough for government work." Nothing ventured, nothing gained. (I'm beginning to feel like a veritable cornucopia of trite phrases...)

Concisely yours.... Henry

 

[AlicePalace]

HOW TO REPAIR ACCORDIONS 2

Check out http://accordionrevival.com!

accordionrevival.com

Yes, thank you! I have a tab open for that site PERMANENTLY because I’m reading and re-reading and re-reading …! Also am watching YouTube videos showing people doing the waxing this way (or similarly). My son is an actual welder — he does fine detail work on custom-made bicycles, so I might make him do it, LOL.

 

[AlicePalace]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

So true! The 1950s Larenti I’m working on had rust on some of the reeds, which (per the suggestion and guidance from a member of this site) I have gently shaved off with a razor blade, at least on the parts of the reeds I can get to without taking the reeds out of the block. (A reed lifter/shim helped with the underside of the interior reeds). I was hoping the rust removal would help with the one reed that is 1/4 tone too low on the bellows pull, but alas. It’s still very low.

Turns out, this Larenti might be the repair practice box you’ve spoken of, if the rust can’t be solved. I got it for free, so I guess there’s nothing to lose … except it’s the perfect small size for me and has the LMM I wanted. I guess I’ll find out!

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

It is possible to replace the inside valves without removing the reeds, but it takes a bit of practice to perfect the technique, plus there are a couple of prerequisites. First, the inside valves need to come off easily. Occasionally they are stuck on so firmly it makes the job impossible…but mostly they do come off without leaving too much behind. and secondly, the wax needs to be in half decent condition (and or the reeds are tacked on) ….(and obvs the Reed’s need to be in good condition ..not corroded).
The technique entails using a very bright light and some sprung tweezers ..and maybe some wire to get the valve straight and not touching the sides of the chamber, or the adjacent reed and also properly over the slot. You need to be super careful where you put the glue, and you need to get the valve in the right place without getting any glue on the reed or smeared around where the reed gets towards the rivet. To start with it seems like an impossible task, and for a long time I didn’t think it possible. But sometimes a customer doesn’t want to spend hundreds of £$€ …and the instrument is just for home use…not for performing in the Albert Hall and sometimes (for instance) replacing the worst valves is all that’s required to solve an awful valve rattle and bring it back. So I put aside some time to see if I could get it down as a viable technique. And the answer is yes.
If you try it, you'll find getting them exactly straight is tricky, and avoiding sticking them to the tweezers is also a bit tricky. I tested the results by pulling off the reeds afterwards to inspect the inside and I was quite surprised at how good it looked. So now its a technique I use when appropriate…and it can save you quite a bit of time.