Roland Fr-8X differences?

[Vesku73]

Hi all! I am intending to buy a used FR-8, so I wonder are there any major/minor technical changes in FR-8 depended of the manufacturing year, I´ve noticed only some cosmetic changes in pics, for ex. V-letter in bassbutton line, compounded with different colour. Also, can we somehow recognize the manufacturing year of a used example of Fr-8. I guess Roland started production of FR-8 in 2013, so, any info in this is very appreciated, thanks in advance!

 

[JerryPH]

Are you asking about the differences between a FR-8X and a FR-8 or the differences between a FR-8X and a FR-7x... because I cannot find any info out there on a FR-8, just FR-8X which came out in 2013 (also which I own and can speak about).

 

[Vesku73]

Yes, I mean differences of model FR-8X, if it is manufactured in different year, and I don´t talk about firm/softwares, small changes which are hardware related, and can´t be updated , is there something?. So if I buy 2013 year´s FR8-X, I can update it to similar as in 2017 bought device?

 

[JIM D.]

All FR-8x models no matter what year made, can be updated and perform as a new production model.

 

[Vesku73]

Ok, thanks for the answer!

 

[JerryPH]

... and I know you said not to mention it, but I feel it is very important to say it anyway. Just recently, like within the last 2 months or so, a newer firmware version came out that added a lot of added reliability, faster boot up and most importantly, added the ability to use the new computer-based software editor, which is HUGE, so updating to the latest firmware is a must. Also, in the past all the expansions had to be bought and paid for, now there are more expansions and they are all free on the Roland website.

I have made a video on the exact process of how to upgrade. The link is here: http://www.accordionmemories.com/2-50update/

Quick note, even if you are very technical, in the beginning, the 8X is extremely complex and confusing. Starting in February, I will be releasing a series of educational videos about the FR-8X. It will be called Roland FR-8X... Mild to Wild. I will be starting off with the very simple basics (the Mild) and slowly moving in to the more and more complex aspects of this accordion, including how to create your own custom programming, recording it, creating multi-track recordings, and much more (the Wild).

 

[Vesku73]

Thanks again, and waiting your new video course!

 

[Glenn]

Looking forward to the courses Jerry.
Btw Vesku those FR8X with differing patterns in the bass can be done with all 8Xs as the button tops are movable and Roland provide spares out of the box.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JerryPH]

Looking forward to the courses Jerry.
Btw Vesku those FR8X with differing patterns in the bass can be done with all 8Xs as the button tops are movable and Roland provide spares out of the box.

Just looking for the time to get them all going.

And about the bass buttons, if yours did not come with them, like mine... you can always contact Jim D. and get some awesome Swarovski crystals in all the colours you will ever need, thats what I did!
http://www.AccordionMemories.com/buttons/

 

[Keymn]

Looking forward to the courses Jerry.
Btw Vesku those FR8X with differing patterns in the bass can be done with all 8Xs as the button tops are movable and Roland provide spares out of the box.

Just looking for the time to get them all going.

And about the bass buttons, if yours did not come with them, like mine... you can always contact Jim D. and get some awesome Swarovski crystals in all the colours you will ever need, thats what I did!
http://www.AccordionMemories.com/buttons/

Go one step forward! Glow in the dark tape! :lol:
https://www.tapedepot.com/product/p...Oq8sYsmxsCuULnRuiKlbuLpuomgtQ5cxoClTsQAvD_BwE

 

[JerryPH]

Go one step forward! Glow in the dark tape! :lol:

LOL!

 

[Keymn]

... and I know you said not to mention it, but I feel it is very important to say it anyway. Just recently, like within the last 2 months or so, a newer firmware version came out that added a lot of added reliability, faster boot up and most importantly, added the ability to use the new computer-based software editor, which is HUGE, so updating to the latest firmware is a must. Also, in the past all the expansions had to be bought and paid for, now there are more expansions and they are all free on the Roland website.

I have made a video on the exact process of how to upgrade. The link is here: http://www.accordionmemories.com/2-50update/

Quick note, even if you are very technical, in the beginning, the 8X is extremely complex and confusing. Starting in February, I will be releasing a series of educational videos about the FR-8X. It will be called Roland FR-8X... Mild to Wild. I will be starting off with the very simple basics (the Mild) and slowly moving in to the more and more complex aspects of this accordion, including how to create your own custom programming, recording it, creating multi-track recordings, and much more (the Wild).

Nice of you to provide in the future some of these videos. Sounds like you will be unleashing the power of these accordions.
Leon just recently released some nice info on the BK7m.
With advancement of arrangers and arranger modules, vaccordions, no matter what model, can sound awesome!

 

[Geronimo]

Nice of you to provide in the future some of these videos. Sounds like you will be unleashing the power of these accordions.
Leon just recently released some nice info on the BK7m.
With advancement of arrangers and arranger modules, vaccordions, no matter what model, can sound awesome!

Slight objection: I have MS40 and MS80 arrangers (the latter with button keyboard) from the 90s. Driving them with some old acoustic accordion with Midi electronics without bellows pressure sensors or keyboard velocity delivers results that can sound awesome. So its not really any recent advancement of arrangers and arranger modules thats necessary here.

I mean, there is a reason real musicians paid real money for those things.

The downside is getting a hang of those things: the manuals seem written for rocket scientists and dont really go to any significant amount of pain explaining the difference between program, voice, groove, pattern, style, registration, drum style, user style and what not. And I like that I have 4 assignable outputs where one can use 1&2 for stereo samples and then put, say, the bass on 3 and the lead on 4 in order to do something more with them in the mixer.

 

[JerryPH]

... I have MS40 and MS80 arrangers (the latter with button keyboard) from the 90s. Driving them with some old acoustic accordion with Midi electronics without bellows pressure sensors or keyboard velocity delivers results that can sound awesome. So its not really any recent advancement of arrangers and arranger modules thats necessary here.

No one said that old technology doesnt sound good, what was said was that the newer arrangers sound better, do more and can make musicians that are NOT quite that good... sound quite impressive. I own 3 arrangers, a Solton Programmer 24 from the 1980s, a Ketron X4 from the 1990s and a Roland BK-7m from the 2010s and I can clearly see the improvements at each level. If there were no advantages, there would be no reason to put out or sell new ones, right?

The downside is getting a hang of those things: the manuals seem written for rocket scientists and dont really go to any significant amount of pain explaining the difference between program, voice, groove, pattern, style, registration, drum style, user style and what not. And I like that I have 4 assignable outputs where one can use 1&2 for stereo samples and then put, say, the bass on 3 and the lead on 4 in order to do something more with them in the mixer.

The manuals, at least for the first two of mine are each not easy to fully comprehend for beginners, but are adequate for the new users to get up and running fast. Like most things in life, people get better by doing and using not reading manuals. The BK-7M is a bit different in that it has a LOT more technical advancements available built in to it. My old Solton has *8* outputs assigned to specific parts, and I used it a lot to create that sound image just like I wanted, but honestly, 2 or 4 outputs is way more than enough and in some cases, you can adjust what sounds you want to come from what side, depending on manufacturer, model, etc... and reducing outputs is a way to lower costs without much loss in effective usage.

Now, sure, these newer units are complex and have a TON of options, but I can most definitely hand a unit over to someone that never saw it and have them use it in 10 minutes or less and have fun doing so, but they use only a fraction of its full potential, just like most users are doing with the FR-8X.

This is where we fall in to a strange situation... most accordionists are not fron the digital age, but they like the digital instrument. When they finally get it, they see it has an incredibly challenging learning curve and reading those manuals is confusing and frustrating. If they stick with it, without any external help, they learn what they learn and if lucky, manage to pull out of it perhaps 10% of what the instrument can do.

This is where people like me come in, people that want to help others and give out information in a way that is progressive and in a manner that is easy to take in. The users will be able to go as far as they want to go or review things over and over until they are clear... and they will be able to learn more and learn faster than reading any manual.

Unlike Roxys/Leon, I wont charge for it (though I might accept donations, I am undecided at this point). These videos are not easy to make... they take a lot of time, effort, planning to record, edit and put out... but I do enjoy the process and I do enjoy giving back to the community.

 

[Geronimo]

The downside is getting a hang of those things: the manuals seem written for rocket scientists and dont really go to any significant amount of pain explaining the difference between program, voice, groove, pattern, style, registration, drum style, user style and what not. And I like that I have 4 assignable outputs where one can use 1&2 for stereo samples and then put, say, the bass on 3 and the lead on 4 in order to do something more with them in the mixer.

The manuals, at least for the first two of mine are each not easy to fully comprehend for beginners, but are adequate for the new users to get up and running fast. Like most things in life, people get better by doing and using not reading manuals. The BK-7M is a bit different in that it has a LOT more technical advancements available built in to it. My old Solton has *8* outputs assigned to specific parts, and I used it a lot to create that sound image just like I wanted, but honestly, 2 or 4 outputs is way more than enough and in some cases, you can adjust what sounds you want to come from what side, depending on manufacturer, model, etc... and reducing outputs is a way to lower costs without much loss in effective usage.

Now, sure, these newer units are complex and have a TON of options,

My problems stem more from a TON of concepts nobody bothers even listing or explaining.

but I can most definitely hand a unit over to someone that never saw it and have them use it in 10 minutes or less and have fun doing so, but they use only a fraction of its full potential, just like most users are doing with the FR-8X.

This is where we fall in to a strange situation... most accordionists are not fron the digital age, but they like the digital instrument. When they finally get it, they see it has an incredibly challenging learning curve and reading those manuals is confusing and frustrating. If they stick with it, without any external help, they learn what they learn and if lucky, manage to pull out of it perhaps 10% of what the instrument can do.

What does from the digital age mean? I soldered my first computer together myself and wrote a BIOS and bootstrap loader before being able to work with floppies. No, Im not from the age where people run around diddling their tiny screens all the time, but frankly the attention span coming with being from a digital age seems so small that Id expect better success handing my Solton manuals to an Ancient Greek scholar than to someone versed in the use of his smart phone.

In short, I doubt that youll have considerably better luck with the younger generations regarding the ability of comprehending complex things like my old arranger manuals. It may well be that the BK-7M has not as recklessly designed and particularly documented for bright and obsessive people. No idea.

At any rate it is my impression that the documentation on old stuff (including consumer electronics) relies to a much larger degree on the ability of people to read, understand, and apply information in complex circumstances and figure out underlying concepts on the fly much more than it is the case nowadays.

Smartphone based user interfaces at least can afford to present one button per function again: its been an ongoing sickness for consumer electronics that they started with one button per function and ended up with complex sequences of fuzzily named buttons for getting results where indeed an attempt of figuring out how to use a device requires the manual (one of the reasons for the blinking 0:00 phenomemon where people never get around to setting the current time/date on their VCR).

 

[Keymn]

... I have MS40 and MS80 arrangers (the latter with button keyboard) from the 90s. Driving them with some old acoustic accordion with Midi electronics without bellows pressure sensors or keyboard velocity delivers results that can sound awesome. So its not really any recent advancement of arrangers and arranger modules thats necessary here.

No one said that old technology doesnt sound good, what was said was that the newer arrangers sound better, do more and can make musicians that are NOT quite that good... sound quite impressive. I own 3 arrangers, a Solton Programmer 24 from the 1980s, a Ketron X4 from the 1990s and a Roland BK-7m from the 2010s and I can clearly see the improvements at each level. If there were no advantages, there would be no reason to put out or sell new ones, right?

The downside is getting a hang of those things: the manuals seem written for rocket scientists and dont really go to any significant amount of pain explaining the difference between program, voice, groove, pattern, style, registration, drum style, user style and what not. And I like that I have 4 assignable outputs where one can use 1&2 for stereo samples and then put, say, the bass on 3 and the lead on 4 in order to do something more with them in the mixer.

The manuals, at least for the first two of mine are each not easy to fully comprehend for beginners, but are adequate for the new users to get up and running fast. Like most things in life, people get better by doing and using not reading manuals. The BK-7M is a bit different in that it has a LOT more technical advancements available built in to it. My old Solton has *8* outputs assigned to specific parts, and I used it a lot to create that sound image just like I wanted, but honestly, 2 or 4 outputs is way more than enough and in some cases, you can adjust what sounds you want to come from what side, depending on manufacturer, model, etc... and reducing outputs is a way to lower costs without much loss in effective usage.

Now, sure, these newer units are complex and have a TON of options, but I can most definitely hand a unit over to someone that never saw it and have them use it in 10 minutes or less and have fun doing so, but they use only a fraction of its full potential, just like most users are doing with the FR-8X.

This is where we fall in to a strange situation... most accordionists are not fron the digital age, but they like the digital instrument. When they finally get it, they see it has an incredibly challenging learning curve and reading those manuals is confusing and frustrating. If they stick with it, without any external help, they learn what they learn and if lucky, manage to pull out of it perhaps 10% of what the instrument can do.

This is where people like me come in, people that want to help others and give out information in a way that is progressive and in a manner that is easy to take in. The users will be able to go as far as they want to go or review things over and over until they are clear... and they will be able to learn more and learn faster than reading any manual.

Unlike Roxys/Leon, I wont charge for it (though I might accept donations, I am undecided at this point). These videos are not easy to make... they take a lot of time, effort, planning to record, edit and put out... but I do enjoy the process and I do enjoy giving back to the community.

Like the fact of sharing operating procedures “with no strings attached”. I am more of a fan of learning operating procedures of my instruments then down loading someone’s interpretation of sound sets.

 

[JerryPH]

What does from the digital age mean?

This has nothing to do with writing code... you are missing a key word there... NOT from the digital age, meaning these accordionists are acoustic accordion players, further meaning these are people with limited or no exposure to the inner workings of electronic/digital accordions and of these, even many older great acoustic accordionists will get all befuddled when you strap on a digital accordion to them.

My conversation with our own group member here Ed echoes that statement. He mentioned to me in a recent phone call that hed likely enjoy a V-accordion... if it werent so complex. I am willing to bet that there are few people out there that are over 60 years old today that have the ability to pick up a V-accordion and even a year later know how to pull out more than 10% of its abilities.

Though most acoustic accordionists may have little to no interest in them, the few that do strap on a digital accordion are quickly frustrated with the experience or limit themselves to a very small subset of the accordions total capabilities.

That is what I meant.

The younger generation have much fewer issues dealing with technology and are less intimidated, and therefore tend to be able to pull more out of a digital accordion than someone 30 years older. In evidence, look at the complex technical arrangements of people like Michael Bridge () and Uwe Steger. Of course there are exceptions... but that is exactly what they are... rare and hard to find. I consider myself one of these people, someone with a strong technical bend, and that is why I would like to share what little I do know.

 

[Keymn]

What does from the digital age mean?

This has nothing to do with writing code... you are missing a key word there... NOT from the digital age, meaning these accordionists are acoustic accordion players, further meaning these are people with limited or no exposure to the inner workings of electronic/digital accordions and of these, even many older great acoustic accordionists will get all befuddled when you strap on a digital accordion to them.

My conversation with our own group member here Ed echoes that statement. He mentioned to me in a recent phone call that hed likely enjoy a V-accordion... if it werent so complex. I am willing to bet that there are few people out there that are over 60 years old today that have the ability to pick up a V-accordion and even a year later know how to pull out more than 10% of its abilities.

Though most acoustic accordionists may have little to no interest in them, the few that do strap on a digital accordion are quickly frustrated with the experience or limit themselves to a very small subset of the accordions total capabilities.

That is what I meant.

The younger generation have much fewer issues dealing with technology and are less intimidated, and therefore tend to be able to pull more out of a digital accordion than someone 30 years older. In evidence, look at the complex technical arrangements of people like Michael Bridge () and Uwe Steger. Of course there are exceptions... but that is exactly what they are... rare and hard to find. I consider myself one of these people, someone with a strong technical bend, and that is why I would like to share what little I do know.

I think the digital age of accordion put it back on the map.
That is what I thought the analog Cordovox was doing when I performed back in the late 60s and 70s. Me, like some others, switched to keyboard later. Synths like Korg ARP oddessey and Roland Jupiter series-were winners back then.
Let us unleash the power of the “V”. Whether you invest in one as a hobby or payed performer, there is nothing like music learning. Age, not a factor.

 

[Geronimo]

What does from the digital age mean?

This has nothing to do with writing code... you are missing a key word there... NOT from the digital age, meaning these accordionists are acoustic accordion players, further meaning these are people with limited or no exposure to the inner workings of electronic/digital accordions and of these, even many older great acoustic accordionists will get all befuddled when you strap on a digital accordion to them. In evidence, look at the complex technical arrangements of people like Michael Bridge () and Uwe Steger.

Interesting evidence. If you take a look at the C.V. of Uwe Steger, he went to music college in 1987. I started studying in 1988, in contrast (and had finished high school in 1984). While I started with computers at something like age 14, it meant convincing operators at the university to let me in under their account and typing out the programs on punch cards.

Hardly what many consider the digital age. My Solton arranger is from 1994 or so, slightly after Uwe graduated from university. We are not from the digital age in any sensible meaning of the word. Computers as a means of distraction were not customary in private households. In my case, they started being available as arcade games in pubs at the end of my school time. But Uwe grew up in East Germany.

As I said: Id trust a 60-year old scholar of Old Greek more with the Solton manuals than some youth glued to their smartphone screen. The latter is too much accustomed to instant gratification.

Why do you think the market is flooded with used accordions (and all other kinds of instruments) nobody is still playing? If things continue like this, in 100 years a Stradivarius will be worth very little since every remaining violin player already has one.