The "Circus" Goes To China.

[Stephen Hawkins]

No, I'm not talking about the Chinese State Circus, but the new "Circus" model range from E.SOPRANI. I had thought, indeed I was told, that some E.SOPRANI models were built in South Korea, though I have no proof that this is the case.

The new "Circus" range, however, is actually advertised as being made in China, which is a refreshing change from the ambiguity created by some other manufacturers.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[hais1273]

That's refreshingly honest. At some point, Chinese goods will become as good or better than the more mainstream manufacturers, maybe they are now in some fields, electronics, scooters and motorcycles, perhaps. If I were an instrument manufacturer in Europe I'd be looking over my shoulder.

 

[JerryPH]

If that is true, then the end is nearer for Castelfidardo than they want to believe. There is no way "traditional" Italy can ever hope to compete.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Hais,

I fully agree with your assessment. Whether we like it or not, China has become the workshop of the World. In fact, the laptop I am currently using is Chinese, as are many more of the electronic gizmos around the house.

As you may already know, one of my accordions is a Chinese made Chanson. I bought it in the full knowledge that it was Chinese, and it isn't too bad. Of course it isn't as good as some of its European competition, but then I didn't pay much for it.

I was struck by the honesty of E.SOPRANI, which, as you say, is a refreshing change from the manufacturers who deliberately muddy the water.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Jerry,

I can assure you that it is true, having seen recent advertisements on British websites. It is also true that some "Italian" manufacturers have been playing this game for some time.

Perhaps the trouble with Fantini (highlighted on another thread) is all part of the shift in manufacturing which is constantly gathering pace.

As to whether Italian Accordion Manufacture is doomed, I really couldn't say. There are certainly enough warning signs to suggest that all is not well and, if I were a betting man, I wouldn't put money on anything but the survival of very high-end instruments coming out of Italy.

Most Hohners are now made in China, though they do still make high-end models in Germany. Maybe the Italian manufacturers will adopt a similar business model, keeping at least some production in Italy.

The thing to understand about Hohner is that it is no longer German owned. It is possible, even likely, that Chinese investment groups will now have an envious eye on Italian manufacturers.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[hais1273]

If you cast your mind back to the mid 1960's Britain made huge numbers of motorcycles, by the mid 1970's they were pretty much gone. A few small factories hung on for awhile, the management at these factories hadn't grasped that the world had moved on and that most people didn't want " characterful" machines, they wanted bikes that started, got you from point A to point B without fuss, or adjusting the points or cleaning the spark plugs, or messing with anything, while that dosen't quite apply to accordions, the Chinese knock out passable instruments that are good enough for most people, most of the time and for a lot less money. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the Chinese factories actually make high quality instruments for the domestic market. How many of us would want to pay £4.5k for a top flight Chinese instrument. (assuming they make them of course) Would we be able overcome our prejudices?

I do hope that more of the Italian accordion manufacturers don't go the way of. Norton, AJS, Matchless, AJW, Grieves, BSA and so on.

 

[debra]

We are moving towards the statement "Designed in XXX, Assembled in YYY" which Apple for instance uses on its products. For accordions it could be "designed in Italy, assembled in China". Many Hohners used to be designed in Germany, assembled in Italy, and now that is increasingly becoming assembled in China.
It's still better to have a German or Italian design assembled in China than have an accordion that is both designed and assembled in China. But I'm sure the Chinese will catch up, if not by their own design then by copying.

 

[Geronimo]

Its still better to have a German or Italian design assembled in China than have an accordion that is both designed and assembled in China. But Im sure the Chinese will catch up, if not by their own design then by copying.

Copying the product is not the same as copying the process. And for many things the process has been developed and then passed along and nobody has a clue any more why they are doing stuff in a particular way but know it is important to do so. And then over the decades optimizations set in and stuff gets slowly worse and nobody knows just why.

Give the Chinese a carpenter like Venanzio Morino and a management realizing how valuable he is, and there will be a problem here.

However, one problem is that you need to be able to afford building single instruments rather than whole series of them in order to learn and improve, and this has gone out of fashion for half a century already.

 

[jozz]

My theory is as soon as China moves over a certain higher price/quality balance point, reason to buy there ceases to exist here and production and buyers will move back. Because music is an emotional market.

 

[Geronimo]

My theory is as soon as China moves over a certain higher price/quality balance point, reason to buy there ceases to exist here and production and buyers will move back. Because music is an emotional market.

Emotions are perfectly well dealt with by local brands rather than local production. Its sort of like idyllic organic chicken farms with free-running poultry selling megatons of meat and eggs. Nobody really wants to look too closely because emotions are at stake and the real thing would not be sustainable at price point so you deal in emotions instead which are more readily affordable.

I mean, take a guided tour at the Hohner factories in Trossingen, let yourself be persuaded of the merits of local production and see their processes, then look up the number of their employees (many of which are actually working on harmonicas I think) and the number of produced instruments made in Germany (yes, they are open about their entry-level instruments but things get murkier above that).

By the way: Hohner is no longer publicly traded and instead is privately owned by The HS Investment Group in Taiwan. Try finding any mention of that on the Hohner web pages. They just removed outdated information conflicting with that.

Because music is an emotional market.

 

[debra]

...
I mean, take a guided tour at the Hohner factories in Trossingen, let yourself be persuaded of the merits of local production and see their processes, then look up the number of their employees (many of which are actually working on harmonicas I think) and the number of produced instruments made in Germany (yes, they are open about their entry-level instruments but things get murkier above that).
...

Its not all that murky above what they may show in Trossingen, but they are not publicly open about it. The higher end instruments like the Morino have been produced by Excelsior (in Italy), maybe completely but at least in part. (Hohner may have still put the Made in Germany stamp themselves, who knows.) Since Excelsior was absorbed by Pigini the Morinos and other higher end models are now made by Pigini and many look and sound like Pigini accordions as well.

The honesty versus deception is not a global or regional thing. Companies do whatever seems best to boost sales. General Motors has bombarded us with Opel commercials with the slogan Its a German whereas it was of course American, assembled in Germany. (Opel has since changed hands once more.) And while Renaults cheaper models made by the former Dacia factory are being sold under the Dacia brand in Europe they are sold as Renault in Russia... The essence of my message is: for any type of product, do not just believe anything what the manufacturer or brand name suggests regarding where the product is designed or assembled.

 

[donn]

I think the worst scandal was (is?) the Chinese-Italian fashion garment industry. "Made in Italy", which is correct as Prato is quite near Florence (Fiorenze), but made by the 50,000 Chinese garment workers there, who reportedly arrive as sort of indentured labor only to become illegal immigrants. Government stood by, until a couple years ago after some of them died trapped in a burning sweatshop; apparently it hasn't occurred to them that they have anything to lose when "Made in Italy" starts to mean "made under third world conditions by foreign workers smuggled into Italy."

 

[maugein96]

I have in my possession an accordion that was made in China, shipped to the USA, then subsequently shipped to me in the UK. When it arrived it bore a German Hohner quality control tag inferring it had been made by Hohner in Germany, or at least quality control checked there. Can you honestly believe every box made in China would have been sent to Germany for quality control?

I don't know for certain which air routes were involved, but I don't think it would even have flown through German airspace in its travels.

I knew where the box had been made but that quality control tag was a bit cheeky.

In my house in Scotland I have a lot of Chinese electrical equipment, a Turkish fridge freezer, and various other items of furniture from all over the globe. My very English badged Vauxhall car was actually made by Opel in Zaragoza in Spain. Even my two cats are from over the border in England. As far as I'm concerned as long as it does the job it's supposed to I couldn't care less where it was made, although I would not buy anything if I knew it had been produced by slave labour. But then again, how would I, or anybody else, possibly know that these days?

The only puzzled looks I got regarding any of the above things I mentioned was that one or two people couldn't believe I had driven over the border into Cumbria to get the cats!

 

[Geronimo]

As far as Im concerned as long as it does the job its supposed to I couldnt care less where it was made, although I would not buy anything if I knew it had been produced by slave labour. But then again, how would I, or anybody else, possibly know that these days?

The only puzzled looks I got regarding any of the above things I mentioned was that one or two people couldnt believe I had driven over the border into Cumbria to get the cats!

Its a rare cat whose production does not involve human slave labour.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Geronimo,

I'm glad you mentioned the HS Investment Group in Taiwan, as I wrote a piece on it some months ago. Some people got a little hot under the collar when I stated that HS Investments owned around 75% of Hohner shares, but your independent research now confirms what I wrote at the time.

The issue for me, then as now, is not where an instrument is made, but whether or not companies attempt to mislead consumers as to the origin of their purchase.

In this instance, E.SOPRANI appear to have realised that honesty is the best policy. No ambiguity remains ...... The E.SOPRANI model range is Chinese.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Geronimo]

Geronimo,

Im glad you mentioned the HS Investment Group in Taiwan, as I wrote a piece on it some months ago. Some people got a little hot under the collar when I stated that HS Investments owned around 75% of Hohner shares, but your independent research now confirms what I wrote at the time.

Independent research is a big word for reading (German) Wikipedia. And its 100% since 2014. If you take a look at the Impressum on the Hohner page itself youll notice that it is now Hohner GmbH (approximately Hohner Ltd) instead of Matthias Hohner AG (publicly traded). According to referenced articles, HS Investment performed a squeezeout of minor shareholders in order to save costs, probably due to shareholder meetings and business decision delays.

P.S.: according to the referenced article, HS Investments is not located in Taiwan but the British Virgin Islands. I think they are a full subsidiary of a large Taiwanese music company, though (KHS Musical Instruments). Most likely some tax construct. Ugh.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Geronimo,

Well, whatever way you came across this information, it chimes with my earlier research. Someone who responded to my thread at the time mentioned that the HS share percentage had increased, though it was unclear by how much.

I do not know the extent to which other accordion manufacturers have been affected by takeover bids (hostile or otherwise) and it will be interesting to see how the market is shaped by the burgeoning Chinese economy.

The serious issue of human rights may yet be a factor in determining economic activity, as may the new "leader for life" situation in China. Be that as it may, it is highly unlikely that the West will upset the apple-cart by using anything but tokenistic rhetoric.

That being the case, the Chinese will continue to flood Western markets with decently made, inexpensive goods. We may not like the idea, but we have no power to stop it.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Geronimo]

That being the case, the Chinese will continue to flood Western markets with decently made, inexpensive goods. We may not like the idea, but we have no power to stop it.

Uh what? Whether to buy something or not is still entirely in the hand of the customer.

 

[maugein96]

Well said Geronimo. Cats just tell us what they want, and we slaves do it for them. If we don't get up at a reasonable hour they'll let us know by jumping up and down on us until we cave in and get up. One of them even "hunts" our feet and hands under the duvet whilst his brother screams and shouts at us!

Incidentally, the Chinese made Hohner Nova accordion does what it is supposed to, and for the price I paid for it I cannot really complain about its quality.

I bought it from the USA, as even with import duty and UK VAT it was cheaper than I could have bought it in Europe at the time, although the UK price has come down a bit since then. I wouldn't really recommend it to a serious accordionist as some of the quality is questionable, but so is my playing.

I have some guitars that were made in Indonesia and China, and can confirm that they are just as good as the American made Fenders I paid silly money for in the 70s. The real hard nosed players will tell me that the electrics are inferior, but at the price I paid for them I don't really care. It's just a pity that they don't seem to be able to turn out top notch accordions yet, but maybe that day is not too far off.

I think it is time that we saw the country of manufacture clearly labelled on every accordion, even if it is on the inside of the body, so that we all know exactly what we've bought.

With Fender guitars, who farm out manufacture to various outlets worldwide, the country of manufacture is clearly indicated on the rear of the headstock, either by name or by code. Accordion manufacturers should be obliged to do the same.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Geronimo,

The decision as to whether or not to buy something is, as you rightly say, entirely in the hands of the customer. But it is important to factor in the effect of reduced choice. If the Chinese have their way, they could easily be the only show in town.

I bought a BLACK & DECKER petrol strimmer a few years ago, truly believing that it was British made. It wasn't! When something went wrong with it, I contacted a few local garden tool outlets, only to be told that parts were not available for my machine. I contacted BLACK & DECKER directly, asking if they could supply the part I needed directly. I was told, believe it or not, that BLACK & DECKER hired out their name for marketing purposes to a Chinese manufacturer, and that none of the parts on the machine I had bought could be sourced through their company.

I guess that the Chinese will build better service infrastructures in the future. Whether or not this is a good thing or a bad thing will depend on your point of view. It may come to the point at which the only choice we have is to buy their goods, or do without.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.