Treble pallet failure

[Rosie C]

Ah, I've been working hard on accordion for the last few weeks for a carol performance this morning. But I only managed one tune before a treble pallet came loose and my Concerto started sounding a continuous E note.

Back home I put it back in place for some photos, it's the left hand red-felted pallet. Nearly all the pallets have white felt, but two have been re-felted in red, or maybe replaced. It looks like by someone not particularly skilled as both show signs of the black plastic having been melted. I'm wondering if maybe a soldering iron has been used directly to melt the wax. Either way, it's going to need a repair

I also realise that my Weltmeister 48 that's not been played recently doesn't have the range to play much of my new repertoire so I'm not stuck without an instrument over Christmas. It may be time to think about a new accordion. I was looking at a Hohner Atlantic a couple of weeks ago...

 

[debra]

I don't believe wax is the proper material for this type of pallet. You could try hot glue instead. But really, to save you during a performance, when this happens any type of glue is better than nothing. I once had a bass pallet felt come loose during a performance, and all we had available was superglue, so that's what we used to fix the problem in a matter of minutes and continue playing.

 

[John Doe]

You're probably right on the soldering iron slip or clumsy use.

The damage to that pallet is done. Unless it was warped it looks ugly but should work fine for its intended purpose. At this point I'd just fluff up the nap on the dislodged pallet with a toothbrush. Put a fingernail scraping of fresh wax in the slot for the rod (you can leave the old wax) Put the pallet as is in place. Then heat the ROD about a half inch below the point where it hits the wax in the slot with... a soldering iron. That's the rod- don't touch the pallet or the wax with the iron. Use low if it's a two setting iron. Hold it there and humm something to yourself as you patiently observe the rod getting hot enough that the was along it in the slot starts to melt. Give it a very few seconds more then stop, gently push the rod (remembering it's hot!) so that it's in the slot fully, and let it cool. Check the alignment of the key, and you should be good for months or years until you see fit to get a new pallet. There is no (as in zero) effect on the performance or sound.

Happy holidays-

Henry

 

[Ventura]

agree with the soldering iron assessment.. better fix both red's

well, you have been choosing accordions because of cute and cuddly
reasons, and sound, so far.. but you do have some experience now
that you have the Settimo sprawled out for repair to easily see those
itty-bitty pathetic little spots of wax expected to hold those pathetic
little cheap plastic valves in the hohner are kind of a joke.. and that is
a pre-China model (LoL)

OK OK, IT LASTED THIS LONG.. i can hear the Germans shouting,,
but they did not design them to last seemingly forever like the
Morino or Gola level models.. they were engineered to last awhile..

and for the weltmeisters and delicias and other euro small
to mid sized boxes, frankly they have always made me laugh
when i held one and squeezed

generally, similarly sized Italian made accordions
are far, far more robust in their mechanical engineering
and materials in my opinion

i have one of those student sized 15" kbd 120 bass little
black Hohners made in Castlefidardo and it is bulletproof
compared to the made-in- Trossingen hohners.. if you insist
on a Hohner find one made in CastleFi

and perhaps forget about that Atlantic.. the metalbau's have so many
problems to deal with from the weird rubber pallet mount frequently
unavailable parts and the easily broken if not perfectly aligned when
you repair it parts and the frozen/galded aluminum in aluminum pivot points..
yes they are kind of fun to have one and fix it up and play but
you now see you want reliability in an accordion the same as
you have been accustomed to find in your Bass and other
professional instruments

happy shopping !

 

[Rosie C]

I don't believe wax is the proper material for this type of pallet. You could try hot glue instead. But really, to save you during a performance, when this happens any type of glue is better than nothing. I once had a bass pallet felt come loose during a performance, and all we had available was superglue, so that's what we used to fix the problem in a matter of minutes and continue playing.

Thanks Paul. Yes, now you mention it, the pallet is a waxy sort of plastic, like polypropylene. It's hard to see how wax would stick. I have a hot glue gun, and as the nearest repair shop is a 2-hour drive from me, it's certainly worth a go.

& thanks @John Doe - I do have some wax, albeit I'll have to wait until the 25th get my paws on it.

 

[Rosie C]

and perhaps forget about that Atlantic.. the metalbau's have so many
problems to deal with from the weird rubber pallet mount frequently
unavailable parts and the easily broken if not perfectly aligned when
you repair it parts and the frozen/galded aluminum in aluminum pivot points..
yes they are kind of fun to have one and fix it up and play but
you now see you want reliability in an accordion the same as
you have been accustomed to find in your Bass and other
professional instruments

Thanks for the advice. I have some time over the holidays to think over things. Right now I'm thinking to part-ex the Weltmeister on something. What something I'm not sure. But I will take your advice and scratch the Atlantic.

p.s. I loved the comment "you have been choosing accordions because of cute and cuddly reasons" - got me there!

 

[John Doe]

Frankly, if you just wanted it to "play now" a squirt of some PVA or even silicone sealant type adhesive in the slot and then let it sit until dry would probably tide you over. You'd want to address that come January though as it might have alifespan of weeks ranther than years.

You could even follow Mr DeBras desperation measure of superglue. Use the gel and let it harden.

Given his posts on accordion repair you've got to know he really, really, needed to have it work NOW.

 

[Rosie C]

Frankly, if you just wanted it to "play now" a squirt of some PVA or even silicone sealant type adhesive in the slot and then let it sit until dry would probably tide you over. You'd want to address that come January though as it might have alifespan of weeks ranther than years.

You could even follow Mr DeBras desperation measure of superglue. Use the gel and let it harden.

Given his posts on accordion repair you've got to know he really, really, needed to have it work NOW.

Thanks John. For sure if I'd had gel superglue in my accordion bag this morning I'd have been squirting it in and finishing the concert. But I have a hot glue gun, and that seems the best option for now. Photos soon!

Longer term, I've looked at the various UK accordion sellers, but I can't really tell what is good. My Concerto has had a hard life - there's various scraps and grazes on it, but it has a mic system so ideal for the gigs I do. It seems to make sense to learn to repair it myself, keep it going as a gigging accordion. But I'm thinking to part-ex my Weltmeister (48 Perle) on something next year.

 

[John Doe]

Hot glue should serve fine- especially since the pallet itself is toast anyway.

You'll want to remove anything loose on the rod or the pallet to ensure decent adhesion- and maybe roughen up the surfaces slightly with a sharp point. The biggest issue with hot glue in such applications is that the stuff is not completely dimensionally stable as it cools. It might be great when first applied and then slightly skewed after cooling.

For a three hole pallet it should work fine. Would be great on a two holer, a bit iffier on a four hole.

You should minimize this risk by dry fitting it (with no adhesive) first. Make sure the keys are aligned and adjust the rod as needed. The end portion of the rod should lie flat in the slot, not up on the very end or on the "elbow". Then use the hot glue, pushing the rod down into the slot so that the it bottoms out against the pallet. This will ensure that any dimensional change while cooling will not result in uneven seating of the pallet.

The next repair person may curse your name- but again, the pallet is toast in any case and the rod should be cleanable without WWIII.

Ho ho ho - Henry

 

[Dingo40]

. It may be time to think about a new accordion. I was looking at a Hohner Atlantic a couple of weeks ago...

I can see there are many Hohner fans out there but, apart from a couple of top end models, I can't think why as, judging from the many disasters recounted in these forums over the past few years , Hohners appear to embody quite a few built in design flaws and the Atlantic model is no exception.
Used or new, I have found Italian made accordions to be well made and dependable.
I have several I play in rotation.
The newest is 30+ years old, the oldest around 80.
The oldest was a basket case when I got it but has since been refurbished and all of them just keep going without giving any trouble.
I was asked by a friend if my accordions need much maintenance? I told him, all of them together needed less attention than my one lawnmower!
As you can see, I'm a fan of the (genuine) Italian makes!

 

[Rosie C]

I can see there are many Hohner fans out there but, apart from a couple of top end models, I can't think why as, judging from the many disasters recounted in these forums over the past few years , Hohners appear to embody quite a few built in design flaws and the Atlantic model is no exception.

I suppose for me there's a certain romance in a German accordion, a workmanlike instrument that sits alongside Bavarian notions of Bierkellers, dunkels bier, dirndls, currywurst, Oktoberfest, etc. At our gig last night we had the audience singing along to "Stille, Stille, Stille", "O Tannenbaum" and "Stille Nacht" in German... a Hohner seems the perfect instrument for such an event! German products sell well in the UK with an assumption that you're buying quality engineering - Miele, Mercedes, Porsche... the ‘vorsprung durch technik’ adverts we had in the 1980s.

I did look at Italian accordions this afternoon - one dealer along had accordions by Guerrini, Marinucci, Giulietti, Galanti, Galotta, Scandalli. Another had Gaudini, Jonelli, Fantini, Fratelli, Brandoni, Vignoni, Bugari and Pigini. I'm fairly sure Bugari and Pigini are decent brands, but the others are fairly hard to differentiate, and some maybe not Italian at all. I'm going to have to do a bit of homework to get up to speed on Italian makers!

 

[Rosie C]

You're probably right on the soldering iron slip or clumsy use.

The damage to that pallet is done. Unless it was warped it looks ugly but should work fine for its intended purpose. At this point I'd just fluff up the nap on the dislodged pallet with a toothbrush. Put a fingernail scraping of fresh wax in the slot for the rod (you can leave the old wax) Put the pallet as is in place. Then heat the ROD about a half inch below the point where it hits the wax in the slot with... a soldering iron. That's the rod- don't touch the pallet or the wax with the iron. Use low if it's a two setting iron. Hold it there and humm something to yourself as you patiently observe the rod getting hot enough that the was along it in the slot starts to melt. Give it a very few seconds more then stop, gently push the rod (remembering it's hot!) so that it's in the slot fully, and let it cool. Check the alignment of the key, and you should be good for months or years until you see fit to get a new pallet. There is no (as in zero) effect on the performance or sound.

I've been thinking about this most of the day. Assuming sufficient wax skills, is their any mileage in removing the good pallet from the highest treble note, and use it to replace the damaged pallet. The damaged pallet can then be fitted as best I can at the top of the keyboard where it will rarely be played?

 

[dak]

Guerrini, Marinucci, Giulietti, Galanti, Galotta, Scandalli. Another had Gaudini, Jonelli, Fantini, Fratelli, Brandoni, Vignoni, Bugari and Pigini.

Galotta is an old East German model/brand that would not be an advantage over many Hohners. "Fratelli" just means "brothers" and is pretty meaningless without anything afterwards, like "Frères" would be pointless without something before (say, "Maugein Frères"). One well-reputed such brand would be "Fratelli Crosio".

 

[Dingo40]

I did look at Italian accordions this afternoon - one dealer along had accordions by Guerrini, Marinucci, Giulietti, Galanti, Galotta, Scandalli.

I have a c1970 Giulietti with the big "G" logo, supposedly built by Zero Sette: this has had absolutely no issues whatsoever in the 50 years I've had it secondhand .
The Italian made Galanti have a good reputation.
The Scandallis (I have one) have a built in time bomb in the way in which the pallets are attached to the key rods using a composite gizmo which tends to dry over time and break up. ( Mine is from the 1950s and, fortunately, hasn't done so...yet!)
Many traps out there!

 

[Rosie C]

Galotta is an old East German model/brand that would not be an advantage over many Hohners. "Fratelli" just means "brothers" and is pretty meaningless without anything afterwards, like "Frères" would be pointless without something before (say, "Maugein Frères"). One well-reputed such brand would be "Fratelli Crosio".

It checked, it's "Fratelli Crosio" - https://theaccordionshop.co.uk/accordions/fratelli-crosio-120-bass-accordion/ and I do like the sound of it on the video!

 

[Bierkeller]

hi the accordion sounds nice but it not the same model that is in the ad the one played in the video has a black master register but the one for sale has all white registers i hope this helps.
regards
nigel

 

[Ventura]

removing the good pallet from the highest treble note, and use it to replace the damaged pallet. The damaged pallet can then be fitted as best I can at the top of the keyboard where it will rarely be played?

for the sake of future reliability in the short term, i agree it is more
important to have the frequently used notes solidly repaired, and
the only "spare" parts at hand are at the top of the keyboard..

of course, this means you are making 4 repairs rather than 2, with
double the risks

the surfaces of the 4 pallets will all have memory of the holes they covered,
and there will be squares kind of edged and hardened in their surface..
you need to suede brush them smooth and get them alive enough to
re-surface to the new alignment and settle into a good seal again.

cleaning the 4 arms should be easy enough, de-glazing them too
so no residual release agents can interfere with your new glue or wax

you might be able to clean the 2 damaged pallets, then melt some
plastic in and re-groove them a bit first

good luck with the repairs

 

[Dingo40]

Assuming sufficient wax skills, is their any mileage in removing the good pallet from the highest treble note, and use it to replace the damaged pallet.

Of course, another alternative altogether would be to make new replacement palettes from lumber, using the existing ones as a guide.
The new palettes could incorporate more substantial anchor points/channels for the key rods and would be most amenable to accordion wax.
It would also avoid the risks associated with messing about with two more palettes:
Win, win!
Very little material would be required and wooden palettes last forever. They are also available ready made.
A straight grained, easy to work wood, such as "Philippine Mahogany" (hereabouts) would be ideal!
See here:

Philippine Mahogany | The Wood Database (Hardwood)

www.wood-database.com

An illustrative example:

Accordion Valve Pallets Wood 13 x 48 x 6 mm SET OF 5 Import from Italy | eBay

These pallets are made of light wood, finished product imported from Italy. for key rods size up to 3mm.

www.ebay.com.au

This and similar YouTube videos could have some useful tips:

 

[Ventura]

good idea.. they are small enough to whittle out a couple

 

[Rosie C]

Of course, another alternative altogether would be to make new replacement palettes from lumber, using the existing ones as a guide.
The new palettes could incorporate more substantial anchor points/channels for the key rods and would be most amenable to accordion wax.
It would also avoid the risks associated with messing about with two more palettes:
Win, win!
Very little material would be required and wooden palettes last forever. They are also available ready made.
A straight grained, easy to work wood, such as "Philippine Mahogany" (hereabouts) would be ideal!
See here:

Philippine Mahogany | The Wood Database (Hardwood)

www.wood-database.com

An illustrative example:

Accordion Valve Pallets Wood 13 x 48 x 6 mm SET OF 5 Import from Italy | eBay

These pallets are made of light wood, finished product imported from Italy. for key rods size up to 3mm.

www.ebay.com.au

This and similar YouTube videos could have some useful tips:

Thanks @Dingo40! My woodworking skills aren't great, but buying a pallet is a great idea. I did look on a couple of websites but couldn't find any, but ebay of course! ... I found some locally: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387525787931