Triple Cassotto Princetti?

[IHAccordion]

Hi all,

As an early Christmas gift to myself, I bought a Princetti accordion (I've seen very similar Busilacchio boxes marked "Busilacchio Princetti"). It's a 3/5 reed instrument, and has 6 treble registers (2 master register switches) and 3 base registers. Has a mute switch.

However, what is of big interest to me is that all of the treble reed blocks are mounted to the large cassotto chamber in the familiar 90 degree rotation on Cassotto accordions. There are no non-cassotto reed blocks. I've seen double cassotto accordions, but nothing that has all 3 of the treble reed blocks mounted on the resonator box.

Here's a Busilacchio box with pretty much the exact same setup (minus a slightly different grill layout).



Here's the accordion I have on the way: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PRINCETTI-Italian-piano-accordion-17-5-034-keyboard-3-5-reeds-/324293299093?hash=item4b81630b95:g:zwcAAOSwfaZfXQNq&nma=true&si=csvWckGfhiWnanbAlgX53cuh55s%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Would this technically be considered a "Triple cassotto"? Any other information regarding it would be appreciated.

 

[debra]

I sincerely hope that the one you bought will be less dramatically out of tune than the one in that video!

 

[IHAccordion]

I sincerely hope that the one you bought will be less dramatically out of tune than the one in that video!

Same here!

I take it that this box technically has "triple cassotto", then?

There's one other video with the same box:

 

[nagant27]

Three in the chamber. And yes that tuning is pretty bad on that first video. Hard to listen to.

I’ve seen stradavoxes that have all four in tone chambers.

 

[IHAccordion]

Three in the chamber. And yes that tuning is pretty bad on that first video. Hard to listen to.

I’ve seen stradavoxes that have all four in tone chambers.

Thanks for your reply. Would there be any sound benefit of having all of the reed blocks in a cassotto chamber?

Wonder why accordions with all treble reeds in a cassotto chamber never really caught on. It looks like it is a simpler design to just have all of the reed blocks in the large chamber. Saves having to deal with the standard double-rod attached to each key for the cassotto reeds and non-cassoto reeds.

 

[Ventura]

mainly because they are harder to squeeze and have less volume
(the all chamber stradovox)
so you need muscles and Mics

 

[debra]

mainly because they are harder to squeeze and have less volume
(the all chamber stradovox)
so you need muscles and Mics

Actually that is a common misunderstanding. A cassotto amplifies lower frequencies and dampens higher frequencies. In the end you get more volume, not less. However, really high notes in cassotto do get less volume because their "base" frequency is already in the region where the cassotto has a dampening effect. This explains why most accordions with double cassotto have L and M in cassotto and not H. (There are exceptions, not because H in cassotto is such a good idea but because they want MM outside cassotto.)
I make quite a few recordings using my accordions and do post-processing and the computer display confirms that the cassotto has a clear amplifying effect.
The reason why some accordions have a "Winkelbaß" or "Umlenkstimmstock" is again because it amplifies the sound for the L reeds. A bass accordion with "Umlenkstimmstock" has a more powerful sound, reducing the need for electric amplification when used in a small ensemble. (My bass accordion does not have it and always needs amplification.)

 

[IHAccordion]

I don't speak Italian, but in the first video it seems like he was stating that the mute switch "activates" the Cassotto effect (if Google translate works well). Usually, the mute switches seem to just be part of the grill, but on these Princetti accordions the switch seems to toggle something inside of the resonance chamber. If the accordion can "switch" from a traditional cassotto sound to a more bright tone, that would be a very cool feature (albiet I think it's still just a simple mute switch).

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[Ventura]

i guarantee you my shoulder and arm were sore after playing the
all four reeds mounted in two tone chambers Stradovox

and the sound was obviously rich, but soft in volume with
less dynamic range (sort of like when a compression
pedal is used on an electronic keyboard)

i dunno what the Physics are, but i know i wanted to buy it
for the sound but it would have shaved 10 years off my life
(or given me arms like Hercules)

ciao

Ventura

 

[debra]

Very strange that the Stradovox with tone chambers would not produce more volume, but of course every accordion is different.
There is also a difference in the absolute volume (measured, and perhaps visualized on the computer) and perceived volume. Our ears (and brain) expect a gradual decline in absolute volume as frequencies go up, which translates into pink noise (noise with higher amplitude in lower frequencies than high frequencies) sounds more natural than white noise (noise which is completely random, containing more high frequencies than pink noise. An accordion without cassotto has a "sharper sound" and as we experience the overtones as louder it may sound louder when in fact it isn't if you look at the amplitude of the base frequency of the note.
I don't know what "rich sound" actually means. In terms of producing overtones non-cassotto accordions are "richer" but in terms of balance between base frequency and overtones (approaching the distribution in pink noise) the cassotto accordions are "richer".
Finally, the volume an accordion produces may be very different from what the player hears while playing. A "good" accordion projects the sound well away from the player, so that the audience can enjoy the music without the player going deaf.

 

[Ventura]

lets see.. the room i played it in was a normal moderately bright
room in a house, plaster and a bookcase and mantle, no fireplace,
maybe a table and chairs on the side, medium sized room

the accordion was old, but had no obvious wear and was quite shiny

by rich i guess i just mean that having everyting in tone chambers
made the sound seem very sweet an complex and warm

but yes, though i was maybe 6 feet away from the wall sitting
on a wooden folding chair playing, it felt like i had to squeeze the
devil out of it to get close to "normal" volume

i had a similar experience the first time i played a Roland digital
accordion (as have many others) but for that it was just adjusting
the bellows dynamics to suit and getting used to it... our Sysop
on the old Yahoo fansite would advise all newbies to
turn UP the volume so they would not have such an ache
of a time of it !

 

[IHAccordion]

i guarantee you my shoulder and arm were sore after playing the
all four reeds mounted in two tone chambers Stradovox

and the sound was obviously rich, but soft in volume with
less dynamic range (sort of like when a compression
pedal is used on an electronic keyboard)

i dunno what the Physics are, but i know i wanted to buy it
for the sound but it would have shaved 10 years off my life
(or given me arms like Hercules)

ciao

Ventura

I can see what you mean by it giving you arms like Hercules! Got the accordion today and it sounds wonderful and very rich, although it takes considerably more effort to get the volume out of the treble reeds in the higher note range. The lower notes have great volume and sound rich however.

My other Settimio Soprani "Colleta" ampliphonic accordion doesn't have cassotto (or the rich and warm sound). It is very easy for it to be "too" loud, so most of the time when I'm playing indoors I try to make the instrument quieter.

 

[Ventura]

i am glad you found a winner !

enjoy

 

[IHAccordion]

Indeed, this is a Busilacchio box rebranded Princetti. I found the neat patent for the "Cassotto" feature, which can turn the accordion from a regular sounding accordion to a full Cassotto accordion. Pretty cool!

US2929291A - Tone modifier for musical instrument - Google Patents