Two new issues with my midi set up. :(

[JerryPH]

Hopefully someone with more experience than I can offer a couple of answers.

#1 - I noticed that when I turn on my Solton programmer 24 that even when it is not doing anything, there is a nice pronounced hiss. It appears the moment that I turn on the device. None of my other electronic devices produce any kind of sound (hiss or anything else). Besides this, it works perfectly well. I know that this is an analog setup, but I really like how it works for me. Is this something that can be addressed?

#2 - Again, I just noticed that when lightly tapping any of the chord buttons on the Elka 83, that some kind of midi signal is released and I get "notes" that come out of the system. It's not the full "range" of the note. Full depressing the button and it works properly. Normally you don't even notice it but I gently rubbed against a few of the buttons while putting it on and noticed this weird behavior. Is this an issue with the midi mechanism and can this be addressed?

Because of the age of the system, these are all likely "old electronics" issues, but just wondering if these are the kinds of things that are expensive to address or relatively simple.

Thanks!

 

[Matt Butcher]

Jerry, I don't know the answer to the second one but I can tell you that it's just not you, in many years going to accordion clubs the clanking of the Elkavox at the start of the tune was a traditional part of the evening. (Sorry to be no help whatsoever.)

 

[JerryPH]

Thanks Matt, nice to know I am not totally alone. This was not something that the accordion ever did in the past (granted, I had not played it in a very great while and this likely contributed to it). I am just trying to diagnose it if it is the analog part of the accordion or the midi.

I am now thinking it is more likely the older analog portion of it, and this seems to be supported by your post (seems your post was helpful!). I wish I was more adept at electronics. There are some things that I can do, this, however, seems a little more mysterious to me.

 

[Glenn]

The hiss from the Solton must surely come from the amplifier being fed the 8 bit drum samples. Is it possible to independently reduce the gain on the drum output to see if this improves something. Also, if you are now listening on a modern amp/pa system it may have better high frequency reproduction which you were not used to in the past.

 

[JerryPH]

Hey Glenn,

Not sure if it can be done, I will try playing with the different gain settings on the Programmer 24 and see what happens, but I will definitely look in to it this afternoon. As for sound, it's always run through a very clean amp and Bose 802E speakers, so sound was always good. A long time ago it did not hiss (at least I don't ever recall it making that sound), so to me it's new.

Right now I have the midi running from the tone generator to the Solton MIDI-IN and from the Solton's MIDI-THRU to the X4's MIDI2-IN, it works just as I want it in this manner (able to use which ever unit I want seamlessly... except for he Solton hiss which is there no matter what configuration I use and starts the moment I turn on the Solton unit. :evil: ).

I'll post later with the results. Thanks for the idea!

 

[JerryPH]

Just an update... the hiss is not localized to any specific portion of the Solton programmer, adjusting individually each of the sliders made no difference. The hiss is specific to this unit, as the moment it is turned off it disappears and all funtions of the setup have zro hiss. The hiss is a bit annoying, though in recorded music it is 100% removed while mastering via software.

Oh well, I suppose it is something that I will have to live with.

 

[Nuuksu]

For problem #1

*His may come from ground loop. If ground loop is formed it acts like antenna and catches noise from power supply, digital units and other electronics near loop. It is easy to test it, if Solton Programmer 24 have earthed power chord with three wires
http://www.qiao-pu.com/upload/photo/5e1668cb34b2b329902cd71fb0d7482b.jpg>

then you should seal protective earth <COLOR color=#FF0000>but not main earth Ground loop may be silent until some power supply is switched on. Switched mode PSU-s tend to create very much noise, these are used in computers and Solton Programmer may also use it instead of classical transforner type PSU.

I have encountered ground loops in my hi-fi systems due to ground loop that forms between computer, dac and amplifier due to signal ground and protective earths are connected together. It is solved by sealing amplifier protective earth pin so loop is cutted and all system is earthed trough computer. Usually problem in recording studios because lots of equipment connected together.

Further reading - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

If you are not comfortable with basic electricity and electricity thermins do not attempt this.

*Electrolytic capacitors may have be loosed some of its capacity, not too much to disturb equipment work but enough to create audible problems. These type capacitors are used to decouple noise sensitive circuits such as small audio signal amplifiers and dac chips - both are present in your Solton. If some capacitors have failed near these sensitive components, noise is picked up from internal psu rails if psu is poorly stabilized. Only solution to solve this is to replace old electrolytic caps.

For problem #2

If your midi accordion use mechanical switches, they may need cleaning and adjusting. My Accordiola Jazzmaster midi uses mechanic switches and thoose need cleaning, since I use midi very rarely I havent cleaned nor adjusted them.

 

[JerryPH]

Well heck, this is often true! I knew about this but did not test it out because usually it is a buzz not a hiss, but this is definitely possible! I even have the proper adapters somewhere that turn a 3-prong wire into a 2-prong wire.

Will give this a ty later today... Thank-you for reminding me! :ch

 

[JerryPH]

Looked for the adapter, found it, tested it... no luck. Hiss remains the same with or without it. That's what you get when using 25+ year old equipment I suppose.

"For problem #2
If your midi accordion use mechanical switches, they may need cleaning and adjusting. My Accordiola Jazzmaster midi uses mechanic switches and thoose need cleaning, since I use midi very rarely I haven't cleaned nor adjusted them."

Another good thought. I don't know what kind it is or what I have, but it is a midi setup from a long time ago, and might need cleaning. I have no idea how to find out at this moment. Anyone possible have any pics of mechanical switches so I could see if mine is similar?

 

[Nuuksu]

Then there may be time to fire up soldering iron.

 

[JerryPH]

I do not know how capacitors in Soltons work, but I do know how they work in photography speedlights. I also clearly recall the vision when I told someone not to play in there. The sight of a man's hand being whipped back and torn right out of socket by 65,000 volts after touching the capacitor is not something one forgets. It was the first time I ever used my jnowledge of how to wrench a sholder back in to the socket, and the first time I saw a grown man cry like a puppy.

On the Solton, I just do not have the electronics knowledge to start popping out and replacing capacitors, though I have no issues with soldering irons. I am the kind of guy that once I see something done, I can do it forever. Never took apart an accordion, never saw what the internals of a midi connector looked like or how to distinguish between a mechanical and non-mechanical contact look like leave me searching for videos to get me started. Short of that, the confidence level is a bit low, though I can understand that it is not rocket science.

 

[Glenn]

May I ask two boring questions?
If you set the mixer output to zero, does the hiss go away?
If you set the Soltons output pot to zero, does the hiss go away?

 

[JerryPH]

1, If you set the mixer output to zero, does the hiss go away?
2. If you set the Soltons output pot to zero, does the hiss go away?

1. Yes.
2. At the solton, it has no main output pot but several sliders for each section. Turning down one or all of them does not affect the hiss.

 

[Glenn]

Then the hiss is inherent on the output amplifier and you have no way of fixing that unless you know how to open, isolate, test and replace that component. Time to polish up the credit card I fear.

 

[JerryPH]

Not quite ready to spend thousands of dollars for a new arranger, besides, I still have a Ketron X3 which is an amazing arranger in its own right. I was quite happy with the Solton sound and if I could even somehow regain enough skills to ever consider recording something again, the hiss is easily removed with adobe CS6 audition's noise reduction techniques.

 

[Nuuksu]

One of many video tutorials -

I also reccomend Markus Fueller channel - https://www.youtube.com/user/markusfuller

 

[JerryPH]

Thank-you. Seems that electrical board repair is going to be a future hobby... lol