Victoria double tone chamber CBA vs Borsini K10 CBA

[yc360]

I am looking at a Victoria double tone chamber CBA, 49 notes/120 bass, jazz toned. I have a Borsini Vienna K10 has similar spec, with 46 treble notes as oppose to 49 on the Vic. The Vic has 25 treble switches (most of them dupes) while the Borsini has a very useful master switch that the Vic doesnt have. Both are about 10 years old in great condition. Id really appreciate your well-informed opinions on the possible differences of the two in such thing as tone color, general quality and reputation, responsiveness, any other things you like to share. For example, is there something called Borsini sound, or Victoria sound, Pigini sound, etc? Maybe all are just urban legend, but I still like to hear it if indeed such things existed in the past, since both Vic and Borsini are pretty old companies. I see a few great clips on YouTube where the pros using Victoria. But those are top of the line converters mostly. This one has 49 treble notes, so maybe its in the similar position in the Victorias line-up as the Vienna K10 in Borsinis, like upper-middle?

Ive asked the dealer to send me some audio/video clips of the Vic so I can compare to my Borsini. I know the limitation of these clips. But something is better than nothing. I have never seen not to mention played a Vic before. Hence my ignorant questions.

Really looking forward to hear from you folks! Thank you in advance!

 

[debra]

I am looking at a Victoria double tone chamber CBA, 49 notes/120 bass, jazz toned. I have a Borsini Vienna K10 has similar spec, with 46 treble notes as oppose to 49 on the Vic.
...
For example, is there something called Borsini sound, or Victoria sound, Pigini sound, etc? Maybe all are just urban legend, but I still like to hear it if indeed such things existed in the past, since both Vic and Borsini are pretty old companies. ...

Sound differences can be considered subtle by some while being considered significant by others...
Borsini has a nice sound and has concentrated on light weight (earlier than other brands) which has also resulted in a Borsini often being more fragile than a Bugari or Victoria. (Pigini is also going more for lightweight now...)
Victoria has a specific sound that is most obvious when you listen to Richard Galliano for a while. (He often plays without the grille in place but there are also many recordings with him playing with the grille installed. Pigini has a very different sound, often a bit sharper (some would say brighter) and with less pronounced bass side than for instance a Bugari... It is all a matter of personal taste. I wont pretend that when hearing an accordion while blindfolded (or just having audio) I can recognize every major brand, but with their most characteristic registers I can recognize some. I can probably recognize the difference between a Victoria, a Bugari and a Pigini. I most certainly and also very quickly recognize a Hohner Gola, and reasonably quickly a Hohner Morino (N or S series). So yes there is really a distinct sound. Borsini I would have a bit more trouble with as it is not that popular and not that well defined in my opinion. I can also recognize a Russian Bayan but I might sometimes get confused between an AKKO or Jupiter or even a Mir.

When you currently have 46 notes a move to 49 notes is not all that significant. (It may depend on which notes you get.) a new Victoria (standard bass only) will give you 53 notes. My current set of accordions has 52, 56 and 64 notes respectively. (My wife has one with 46 notes.) Of course we are all spoiled when compared to PA players. On a PA 49 notes (D to D) is the largest I know.

 

[yc360]

Thanks for your insight and observations! I was watching the guy playing without the grill. He's great! I'd love to find out for myself soon the so called velvet sound of the Vic box :ch and report back. Really appreciate your thoughts as always!

 

[yc360]

The Victoria is taller and a bit bulkier than Borsini K10, somewhat heavier as well. It's just as well made and feels as solid and smooth. The sound, though dry tuned, is dramatically different from K10. The Victoria sound is indeed velvet and musical while K10 is much more brass like and powerful. The sound from K10 just blasts in all directions, similar to the old Morino M (also relatively light weight and smallish in comparison for a 120/41 4/4 PA). The Victoria sound is more in line with my Morino Artiste N, with shades and nuances. Don't know what a well kept Mornio Artiste should feel like. Mines isn't as smooth and responsive, even though it looks fine cosmetically on the outside. Both K10 and the Victoria are about 10 year old and well kept. Both are beautifully made. That makes playing always a pleasure. The Morino Artiste M and N I have on the other hand are quite heavy and bulkier (the bellows sticking further out from body, making the some bass section harder to reach) and not as balanced in weight by comparison, much more cumbersome to play.

I would very much like to visit Castelfidardo one day and see for myself where all the magic happens! :ch {}

P.S. The Victoria's 49 treble notes run from C to C, which is really helpful. I ran out on both end on the K10 several times, especially on the low end. The Morinos have more notes, just that mines aren't in great conditions so I don't really know what they are supposed to be like. Bummer! :hb

 

[debra]

...
P.S. The Victorias 49 treble notes run from C to C, which is really helpful. I ran out on both end on the K10 several times, especially on the low end. The Morinos have more notes, just that mines arent in great conditions so I dont really know what they are supposed to be like. Bummer! :hb

My Morino is the Artiste X S, so a little newer, with the keyboard going from A (lower than the Victorias C) to E (higher than the Victorias C). The sound is great and even the low notes are not bad. The main problem with the lowest notes in the L register is that because of the restricted space in the Morino (cassotto) these reeds are rather short with large weights attached. That does not help the responsiveness. With notes equally notes it is definitely possible to do better. My Bugari 540 goes down to Cis and the lowest notes are still very responsive. So are the low notes on my Pigini basson (although only after reed adjustment, not with the factory settings). The best response comes from my AKKO bayan. The Russians really know how to make responsive low reeds.
The range of an instrument is always a compromise. No matter how low or high you can go, you will always find a piece of music you would like to play and where you run out of notes.

 

[yc360]

Would love to see somebody plays the Jupiter up close. It sounds very impressive in some of the YouTube clips. Morino was designed by Italian but in so many ways, it's different from the Italian ones. May have to do with the local preference?