Victoria Poeta and other wooden instruments?

[dm]

Hi all. I was just in Italy and was lucky enough to swing by Castelfidardo and play one of the beautiful Victoria Poetas. I'm interested in buying one, but they're not cheap, so I wanted to see about other people's experiences with them.

If you have one, are you happy with it?

In general, are there any drawbacks to wooden instruments that don't have a celluloid exterior? They seem to be lighter and quite attractive. It sounds like some people find that they scratch easily. But in my experience, celluloid does as well. Unless I'm missing some obvious problem, or am simply blind to the charms of rhinestones, I don't see why plain wood isn't the standard. Let me know what you think.

Many thanks!

David

 

[Glenn]

Hi DM,

The Poeta is mentioned a few times on the forum.
One member has bought a brand new one so perhaps a PM to him may bring you some added information.

http://accordionists.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1952&p=20997&hilit=poeta#p20997[/url]

 

[TomBR]

Wood finish instruments do look very nice..... (Stop looking so smug, melodeon players!)

I think it's not surprising there's a price premium and I don't see that changing. Getting a nice fit and finish to structural woodwork is harder than applying "cover all" celluloid to something that can otherwise be built like a crate!

I remember an importer of Romanian stringed instruments blogging that one reason he'd given up was that the factory found it so hard to deliver the blonde instruments he specified, without a nice toffee-apple varnish to hide the faults. (Trouble was, that was why he'd specified that finish!)


[I'm not being rude about accordion makers, instruments are built to appropriate standards, but when you compare the woodwork of an accordion to a stringed instrument, "they're very different."]

 

[fjsys]

Hi David,

Got your PM and plan on responding with my contact info in case you want to talk about it offline.

I am about 6 months on and still am completely in love with my poeta.

I love the finish and everyone who looks at it loves it as well.
As for scratches, I have only one and it is more of a dip than a scratch. It came from the fact that I didn't get buckle covers on the straps and when I am looking at the keyboard my chin pressed the top buckle into the top of the accordion. (I have since put a little athletic tape on the buckles to avoid this)

I can see where people get worried about scratches, but the finish is fairly thick and it would take quite a gouge for it to be noticeable. Besides scrapes and dings give it character and make it so that you can look at it and say that it is yours.

I did not have the luxury of trying one out first, I purchased it sight unseen and only communicated with the factory via email. But I had seen Frank play it in person and there are enough 70s titano accordions running around Utah that I knew what I was getting. (funny thing is that it seems that there are only titano accordions in Utah, not sure how Deffner managed it...)

Ben

 

[nagant27]

First off I have never played one or even seen one in person. Do you think the sound is better versus a celluloid covered one? Is a varnish or clear coat painted over them to help in scratching? I would imagine if you get enough scratches they could always be sanded out and repolished or finished without too much effort. I have watched videos of Marocco playing one and they do sound nice, don't think it matters much as to whether the outside is natural wood or not. Of course him playing it doesn't hurt either. I understand though if you fell in love with it, then you really have to get it. I have learned if you play something and it instantly grabs you it is best to get it if possible, otherwise you will always regret it later. What kind of price are we talking? Sounds cool.

 

[fjsys]

Does it sound better vs Celluloid? I dont know the answer, but when I compare it to the 50-70s titanos that are running around I like the sound of this one better. (and perhaps that is just b/c I am trying to justify the purchase, but I am completely happy with how it sounds)

There is a nice coat of varnish over the wood that gives it a good shine, I would imagine that at some point (probably 30-40 years from now) I may think about getting it re-finished. But I think that would come at the time when all of the insides would need to be re-done as well.

I can tell you that if I would have just purchased this one about 3 accordions ago I would have saved myself a lot of money in the long run. But I do not regret any of the purchases that I have made, they all showed me what I was looking for along the way. I am happy that I waited and did not purchase a new one right when I started playing, I would have ended up with the wrong accordion... (however it would have been a nice Pancordion)

The one thing that I will say is different about playing this one over a celluloid accordion is that this accordion vibrates more. When you get going and loud you can feel the reeds and the sound in your chest and arm better than any other that I have owned. It is a wonderful experience that I attribute to not having the celluloid coating.

For price it depends on the USD->EUR conversion rate and unfortunately for me it was high at the time. (would have been 1k cheaper if I would have purchased now over what it was when I purchased it, but I do not regret that) You can get their EUR price from their website: http://www.accordions.it/shop/itemview.php?id=28&lang=EN
They are really great to work with over email.

Ben

 

[nagant27]

Sounds like you like it, and when it comes down to it, that's really all that matters. I have watched some people on you tube, and the accordions look and sound great. (oleg dobrotin and recently a reno di bono from California come to mind. Both sound great and play absolutely beautifully. Check them out.) That vibration you feel would really enhance your playing, by really feeling the music physically and emotionally, I would think. As for investment I think its worth it, some accordions just make you sound better, and play better, I think. I'm happy you found your dream instrument!

 

[craptiger]

I am thinking of selling my Poeta if anyone is interested. I bought a Saltarelle Bourroche instead as I often play out of the house in pubs and the Poeta was just a bit too bulky. The Bourroche is much lighter and smaller, though it doesn't have anything like the soft fluffy bass of the Poeta and the keyboard isn't anywhere near as good either. The Poeta is my favorite box of all the ones I've ever owned, but at this point in my life I need small and light.

 

[TomBR]

I am thinking of selling my Poeta if anyone is interested. I bought a Saltarelle Bourroche instead as I often play out of the house in pubs and the Poeta was just a bit too bulky. The Bourroche is much lighter and smaller, though it doesnt have anything like the soft fluffy bass of the Poeta and the keyboard isnt anywhere near as good either. The Poeta is my favorite box of all the ones Ive ever owned, but at this point in my life I need small and light.

Its the Poeta in your videos? Id been wondering what it was.
Great playing, really enjoy them.
Tom

 

[craptiger]

Indeed it is that one. I'll be very sad to see it go, but don't really have room for it. Haven't given much thought to how much yet, open to offers really while I think on it. Perhaps I might make a few more vids and stick a for sale sign on the front ha ha

 

[wout]

Late answer but I will reply a bit of my experiences. I played Poeta and Scandalli intense. I really liked the Poeta but not a big fan of the Scandalli, the sounds was kind of muffled? I guess that fits the description best. When I was visiting in the store of Victoria we also talked a bit about tonal woods and that explains the soundproperty of the poeta. The scandalli was mahogany (very dense) which doesnt vibrate. Tonal woods like the wood used of the poeta makes the whole accordion into a soundbox like a guitar body. In the past I also did some research into tonal wood properties, really interesting. There is also a theory (don't know if its proven) which says that wood of often played instrument kind of age in sync with the tonal vibrations which explains why some well kept aged accordions sound so nice. Personally I really liked the poeta but I think you will get the most out of it for jazz. Sounds really mellow. I like the sound of my morino VIN better its a bit more bright and also the keyboard of the VIN is the nicest keyboard I ever touched, really light en sensitive. But thats just my taste of sensitivity.

Overall experience of the poeta its a great instrument, lovely looker and also really important, quite light!
The tones are really mellow but for me a bit to mellow and dry tuned. The picollo wasn't that bright and the violin was extremely dry but the wetness can be changed ofcourse. Other than that I really felt like it has "soul" when you play it. Its really expressive.

 

[JerryPH]

I like the sound of my morino VIN better its a bit more bright and also the keyboard of the VIN is the nicest keyboard I ever touched, really light en sensitive. But thats just my taste of sensitivity.

I thought I was being nuts for feeling the same thing. I had the opportunity to try out a $35,000US Pigini Bayan for about an hour yesterday, but the keyboard action was just not comfortable for me, no matter what I played. Coming back to my VI N was like coming home... the runs were smoother, faster and just more comfortable for me. On top of that I had not pkayed the Morino for about a month thanks to the FR-8x taking up my time, so the experience was surprisingly obvious to me.

As far as looks go, man, a bare wood accordion just looks like the Rolls Royce of accordions, it is so beautiful to see that wood grain!

 

[donn]

Tonal woods like the wood used of the poeta makes the whole accordion into a soundbox like a guitar body.

Not exactly! The key to how a guitar works is how the strings are mounted to the soundboard. You can make that soundboard out of a variety of things and still get a recognizable tone, but change how the strings are attached and it wont work any more. For example, if the neck extends through the body and the strings are mounted on it - soundbox no more. (Thats done with electric guitars, and indeed sometimes with otherwise hollow bodies that appear to be soundboxes, but such a guitar is useless without an electric pickup underneath the strings.) The strings have to be mounted more or less in the center of the soundboard, in a way that allows them to efficiently induce vibrations that can be heard. (One of two ways - common classical and folk guitars are anchored to the soundboard, for a tension force, where archtop guitars favored by jazz players are stretched over a bridge that rests on the soundboard - like the violin family - for a compression force.)

Now, Im not saying that an accordions body case makes no acoustic difference. Obviously the apertures in the case are an important feature, but even the vibration of the case could conceivably be audible. Its hard to be believe it would be audible to an observer at more than arms length distance, but if youre up against a good microphone it might matter. For me, this is in the category of differences where the player has to be extra careful not to be swayed by expectations.

As far as looks go, man, a bare wood accordion just looks like the Rolls Royce of accordions, it is so beautiful to see that wood grain!

Which is certainly reason enough for it. And since even accordion players are in some sense artists, a very good reason. What piano player would put up with a formica piano?

 

[wout]

Yes sorry bad example, just trying to explain why a poeta is different from other accordions. In an accordion its the reedblocks that matter more, but I believe that the wood for the instruments body is also important if you take one of these metal hohners you can clearly hear the difference in my opinion. With the poeta for example I felt like the body vibrated more than with a normal celluloid covered one. It's really interesting how sound can be manipulated

 

[JerryPH]

I've heard that more than once, that in wooden bodied accordions the vibrations are felt more than with those that are celluloid covered. That's a very cool trait, and on an accordion, where it is held against the body, I can see that it makes the experience more intimate for the musician.

 

[Ganza]

Indeed it is that one. Ill be very sad to see it go, but dont really have room for it. Havent given much thought to how much yet, open to offers really while I think on it. Perhaps I might make a few more vids and stick a for sale sign on the front ha ha

Hi craptiger, as a matter of interest, how much does your accordion weight (really? haha not the offical weights, which are always 1kg at least lighter than the true weight....)

 

[debra]

Ive heard that more than once, that in wooden bodied accordions the vibrations are felt more than with those that are celluloid covered. Thats a very cool trait, and on an accordion, where it is held against the body, I can see that it makes the experience more intimate for the musician.

That would then also suggest that it should result in a noticeable sound difference which, in all honesty, I have not been able to detect. Of course different accordions have a different sound but two instruments that are the same except for celluloid or no celluloid sound the same to me. (I have tried this with Bugari instruments I have had access to, Victoria might be different?)_
Differences in wood used in the accordion may contribute more to the sound differences than just the celluloid. But maybe I am just not a good enough listener...

 

[donn]

Are wood cases much thicker - relative to the diameter of exit holes? Thinking that would make deeper exit holes that might exert a very slight influence on tone. Sort of like the tone chamber effect but of course very much less of it, attenuating the higher frequencies a bit.

 

[debra]

Are wood cases much thicker - relative to the diameter of exit holes? Thinking that would make deeper exit holes that might exert a very slight influence on tone. Sort of like the tone chamber effect but of course very much less of it, attenuating the higher frequencies a bit.

Of course that would have effect. But I was talking about instruments that are identical except for the lack of celluloid. I dont think that would make for an audible difference. Changing other aspects of the case can most certainly have effect.

 

[fjsys]

Ive heard that more than once, that in wooden bodied accordions the vibrations are felt more than with those that are celluloid covered. Thats a very cool trait, and on an accordion, where it is held against the body, I can see that it makes the experience more intimate for the musician.

That would then also suggest that it should result in a noticeable sound difference which, in all honesty, I have not been able to detect. Of course different accordions have a different sound but two instruments that are the same except for celluloid or no celluloid sound the same to me. (I have tried this with Bugari instruments I have had access to, Victoria might be different?)_
Differences in wood used in the accordion may contribute more to the sound differences than just the celluloid. But maybe I am just not a good enough listener...[/quote]

Well I can tell you from owning the Victoria that two years on it plays different and does in fact vibrate different than a celluloid accordion. I dont think that it causes it to sound much different, to me it is just the aesthetics.

However it must be noted that it is a different accordion from its celluloid brother as well. The size and shaping of the bass hand for example are different than the celluloid version, so there isnt really a direct comparison between the non celluloid version and the celluloid version. If you look at the A420VP (wooden) vs the A420V (celluloid) the size and shape of the boxes is different.

Honestly I dont think that the celluloid makes any difference, it is just how the accordion is built.
Ben