Victoria versus Serenellini

[Dano458]

Hi guys,

Just looking for some opinions on Victoria and Serenellini solid wood accordions. I'm considering a future purchase, that would be extended keyboard.

I feel the accordions from both companies are very beautiful and offer superior quality.

Looking for a wide array of opinions. Thank you in advance for your time and expertise.

Dano

 

[PhiliGol]

I don't know Serenely but I know Victoria - had the pleasure to extensively try out a 2nd hand Poeta at a dealer to finally bring her home for a friend.
It's definitely a remarkable instrument - its attack and sound is awesome; its fine response to minimal bellow motion is outstanding.
My 2 advices:
- play attention to the tuning - unless you explicitly order otherwise they tune it 442Hz
- there seem to be different keyboard versions - the one I did play was a bit on the clattery side (I'm talking a Poeta PA)
Nevertheless a great instrument which brings a lot of joy to its new owner.

 

[danp76]

Brandoni also offers some very nice mahogany accordions.

 

[Richard]

Hi guys,

Just looking for some opinions on Victoria and Serenellini solid wood accordions. I'm considering a future purchase, that would be extended keyboard.

I feel the accordions from both companies are very beautiful and offer superior quality.

Looking for a wide array of opinions. Thank you in advance for your time and expertise

Hi guys,

Just looking for some opinions on Victoria and Serenellini solid wood accordions. I'm considering a future purchase, that would be extended keyboard.

I feel the accordions from both companies are very beautiful and offer superior quality.

Looking for a wide array of opinions. Thank you in advance for your time and expertise.

Dano

Hi, do you mean Serenelli accordion? If so, I purchased their top model Acctone about 10 years ago. It is extended keyboard E - C.
I had them install 4 chin switches, install treble switches in easier to access order ie: bandoneon, clarinet, bassoon, organ, mussette, etc in a row at the top of keyboard switch layout. I also had the Accordion reed installed as the palm master since the usual Master switch combines all reeds and to me is an unpleasant sound! The accordion is in mint condition as I played it very little. It is a very nice sounding accordion along with installed microphones. It is for sale, the Accordion Gallery has one with standard setup.

 

[debra]

Hi, do you mean Serenelli accordion? If so, I purchased their top model Acctone about 10 years ago. It is extended keyboard E - C.
I had them install 4 chin switches, install treble switches in easier to access order ie: bandoneon, clarinet, bassoon, organ, mussette, etc in a row at the top of keyboard switch layout. I also had the Accordion reed installed as the palm master since the usual Master switch combines all reeds and to me is an unpleasant sound! The accordion is in mint condition as I played it very little. It is a very nice sounding accordion along with installed microphones. It is for sale, the Accordion Gallery has one with standard setup.

As far as I know Serenelli has not existed any more for several decades. They produced Giulietti accordions (with the treble clef logo) eons ago, before that production moved to Zero Sette (the Giulietti's with the G logo).

 

[debra]

I know both Victoria and Serenellini accordions quite well. (I don't own either but I have worked on both.) Both are excellent accordions, minus the small factory defects that many new instruments appear to have. Victoria was first to start the "pure wood" accordions, but by now virtually every accordion manufacturer makes such instruments.
Victoria has an easily recognizable own sound, which I attribute to the shape of the reed blocks (a bit narrower at the top than on other brands).
Serenellini sounds more similar to many other brands. When you look inside many accordions they look very much alike, and when you play them they sound much alike too. That is especially good when playing together with others.
As for the "clattery" keyboard... all keyboards start making more noise over time, compared to new. The "attack" action of each key presses down on a strip of felt (under the keys) that becomes compressed and hardens over time. The "release" action is stopped by the pallet hitting the sound board. There too the action is dampened, by the felt+leather of the pallet that also becomes compressed and hardens over time. The attack action can be silenced by replacing the strip of felt under the keys. The release action can be silenced temporarily by brushing the leather side, and more permanently by replacing the pallets.

 

[PhiliGol]

Thanks Paul for explaining the potential sound sources of PA-keyboard clatter.
One was saying that there are 2 versions of keyboards VICTORIA is using and the one I was playing was a bit on the noisier side.
If it was a matter of ageing only I'd be surprised as the instrument wasn't that old (said to be be <10yrs) and it was definitely noisier than my 40 year old Morino.

As you have infinite wisdom and so much experience:
In theory the release noise should be significantly reduced if the pallet doesn't splat fully flat on the soundboard but starts hitting from one edge and by the leather's/felt's flexibility snuggles up from the "landing" edge to the other one.
Is that considered by e.g. using leather-felt cushions slightly wedge-shaped or having the pallets slightly tilted?
Quite a challenge especiallynfor a cassotto instrument.

I wonder if any manufacturer is considering that technique and by that achieves to unclatter the keyboard.
At least I'm not aware of any brand labelling their boxes kanda "extra silent keyboard"

 

[JerryPH]

The answer is again… it depends. That said, the top of the line of both Victoria and Serenillini are going to be very close in quality, but both will have their musical personalities. Whether you prefer one over the other, it won’t be the name that makes the difference but your preference to their sounds. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Ventura]

self levelling pallets have been around forever now..
i sort of assumed everyone would be using them in the modern age ?

 

[debra]

Thanks Paul for explaining the potential sound sources of PA-keyboard clatter.
One was saying that there are 2 versions of keyboards VICTORIA is using and the one I was playing was a bit on the noisier side.
If it was a matter of ageing only I'd be surprised as the instrument wasn't that old (said to be be <10yrs) and it was definitely noisier than my 40 year old Morino.

As you have infinite wisdom and so much experience:
In theory the release noise should be significantly reduced if the pallet doesn't splat fully flat on the soundboard but starts hitting from one edge and by the leather's/felt's flexibility snuggles up from the "landing" edge to the other one.
Is that considered by e.g. using leather-felt cushions slightly wedge-shaped or having the pallets slightly tilted?
Quite a challenge especiallynfor a cassotto instrument.

I wonder if any manufacturer is considering that technique and by that achieves to unclatter the keyboard.
At least I'm not aware of any brand labelling their boxes kanda "extra silent keyboard"

There are different keyboard mechanisms but most often the sound really comes from the pallets hitting the soundboard. The leather-felt cussion must hit the soundboard all at once in order to seal well. If there is more pressure on one end than the other then the hole closed with the least pressure will not seal properly and especially on push the reed will sound without the key being pressed.
On a cassotto instrument it is already difficult to get similar pressure on the pallet in cassotto and the one outside. There is no tolerance for trying something with a pallet that doesn't close equally well on all sides.
A factor that does have significant influence on the noise is how far the pallets open, and this is directly related to how deep the keys are pressed. On the Morino the key "depth" may be less (it is on my Morino but that's a button accordion and may differ from a piano accordion. You get the best sound when the pallets open further, but that comes at the expense of more noise then the pallets close.
The best thing to try is to disassemble the keyboard, brush the leather of the pallets against the grain (to make the "hairs" stand up) and then reassemble everything. It has a remarkable effect on the noise level. Sadly it lasts a few months at best.

 

[PhiliGol]

Thank you Paul.
I never disassembled a keyboard with central axle.
So far I restricted myself to Hohner Basso, Atlantic, Imperator, and Lucia - all with per key fixing mechanism.
From the dust I discovered on these instruments (and the hardened stop-felt you mention earlier) I know that also my Gola could need a cleanup one day - but admittedly have some hesitation to touch this central axle.
I won't touch the Poeta - presumably it needs new pallet cushions.

 

[PhiliGol]

self levelling pallets have been around forever now..
i sort of assumed everyone would be using them in the modern age ?

Hi Ventura
I think I know what you mean: the pallet not being fixed by cement to the clavis-lever rather than using a kind of flexible joint made of e.g. rubber - is it? I remember having seen this but can't remember on which instrument.

The Victoria Poeta as well as my Bugari have the pallets fixed with non flexible glue to the clavis - like this:


I can't remember the Morino S and don't have a photo of the Gola on hand.
Looks like one day I'll have to remove the sordino to inspect it

Btw: does anyone know what's the purpose of the squared silver piece of paper glued on top of every pallet?
I saw it on both the Bugari as well the Poeta.

 

[debra]

self levelling pallets have been around forever now..
i sort of assumed everyone would be using them in the modern age ?

Nope. Many accordions are still made with wooden pallets held in place with wax, and then the felt+leather is glued to that.
Metal self-leveling pallets, with flexible silicone-rubber loops to connect them to the key lever, have been used a lot by Hohner (including the Hohner models made by Excelsior) and by all Russian bayan makers. Especially the high-end Italian accordions still use the rigidly connected wooden construction. I have no strong opinion on which is better.

 

[debra]

...

Btw: does anyone know what's the purpose of the squared silver piece of paper glued on top of every pallet?
I saw it on both the Bugari as well the Poeta.

The piece of paper is mostly decorative, but it may help a bit to make the wax stay good for more years than when it were exposed.
I have seen that some manufacturers now produce the same accordions without the paper where they used it years ago. I guess it saves a little bit of money in production to not use the paper.

 

[debra]

...
The Victoria Poeta as well as my Bugari have the pallets fixed with non flexible glue to the clavis - like this:
... I can't remember the Morino S and don't have a photo of the Gola on hand.

The Morino M, N and S series all have metal pallets connected to the key lever with a rubber loop. I didn't take pictures of the pallets in the 1960's Gola or the one from around 2000 that I had in for repair, so I don't know about their keyboard mechanism.

 

[96Bass]

I had a Serenellini wood accordion in my possession for a short time. It was a poorly constructed instrument. Since you are in the US, check out the Petosa Artista Pro line. They are high quality although I doubt you can get one with an extended keyboard, but it doesn’t hurt to inquire.

 

[debra]

I had a Serenellini wood accordion in my possession for a short time. It was a poorly constructed instrument. Since you are in the US, check out the Petosa Artista Pro line. They are high quality although I doubt you can get one with an extended keyboard, but it doesn’t hurt to inquire.

There is likely a substantial price difference between the Serenellini and the Petosa (made by Zero Sette).
There is likely also a substantial price difference between the Serenellini and the Victoria.
Still, the Serenellini accordions I have seen (on the inside) were fine accordions with a very nice sound. (They were not "pure wood" models, but still high end, with cassotto and a mano reeds.)

 

[Dano458]

I appreciate all of the opinions and information from the esteemed gentlemen that have taken their time to provide valuable insight.

I was recently looking at the Serenellini Imperator in Cappacino that Liberty Bellows has listed. I'd appreciate any opinions on that particular accordion regarding quality, features, and level of prominence within the Serenellini line. Thanks in advance.

Dano

 

[96Bass]

The Serenellini Imperator in Cappacino does not look to be a natural wood finished accordion. The finish appears to be an air-brush painted finish. The construction quality should be much better than the natural wood accordion that I mentioned earlier in this thread.
It seems to be a fine accordion. My impression is that their traditional constructed accordions are good instruments for the price.

 

[Walker]

I like the Victoria Poeta accordions, especially the ones with free bass converter. I've played one and they are so light. The accordion I tried was a compact 41/120 with quint fb (3 octaves) and it was around 10kg, maybe slightly less. Valentina Cesarini plays one just the same. Here she is, in duet, playing a famous Morricone theme...