Vintage Scandalli Super VI

[danp76]

Hi everyone, I'm thinking about adding a vintage VI to my collection. How do they compare to other top choices from the golden era? Are they that much better than other top tier vintage accordions? A great vintage from Titano, Sonola, Excelsior, etc. can be purchased between $4-6k or so. Super VI's are typically $12-16k, are they that much better to justify the much greater market price? Thoughts? Thanks!

Some of the best new accordions can be bought for the price of a vintage VI, some say they are better sounding than any new accordion....subjective I suppose.

 

[debra]

The legendary Hohner Gola, Scandalli Super VI and top of the line Bell (I can never remember its number) were partly jointly developed by uniquely knowledgeable and skilled designers/builders. No accordion developed later has really been able to equal their sound. But...
Every detail is important. Some of these accordions from the golden era have been maintained very carefully and are still just as good as they were when new. Others have not been treated so well, have had their reeds partly or completely destroyed in bad tuning jobs, some even have had their reeds stolen, etc. So finding one of these old top instruments does not imply you find one that is as good as new and sounds as good as new. Very thorough inspection is needed to tell whether such an instrument is still worth the high asking price.
It also takes a rare person to fully appreciate such an accordion and to hear the difference with new top of the line accordions. Many people are very happy with a Hohner Gola made say in 1990 and don't hear the difference with one made in 1960. The same holds for the Super VI to some extent, but the Super VI has been made in different places over the decades... You can buy a brand new Super VI extreme now and probably think it sounds the same as a Super VI from 1960 but I'm sure that when both are placed side by side an expert can tell them apart. Whether these smallish differences are important to you... impossible to say by anyone but yourself.

 

[danp76]

The legendary Hohner Gola, Scandalli Super VI and top of the line Bell (I can never remember its number) were partly jointly developed by uniquely knowledgeable and skilled designers/builders. No accordion developed later has really been able to equal their sound. But...
Every detail is important. Some of these accordions from the golden era have been maintained very carefully and are still just as good as they were when new. Others have not been treated so well, have had their reeds partly or completely destroyed in bad tuning jobs, some even have had their reeds stolen, etc. So finding one of these old top instruments does not imply you find one that is as good as new and sounds as good as new. Very thorough inspection is needed to tell whether such an instrument is still worth the high asking price.
It also takes a rare person to fully appreciate such an accordion and to hear the difference with new top of the line accordions. Many people are very happy with a Hohner Gola made say in 1990 and don't hear the difference with one made in 1960. The same holds for the Super VI to some extent, but the Super VI has been made in different places over the decades... You can buy a brand new Super VI extreme now and probably think it sounds the same as a Super VI from 1960 but I'm sure that when both are placed side by side an expert can tell them apart. Whether these smallish differences are important to you... impossible to say by anyone but yourself.

Thank you for your detailed response. I have never played a vintage VI, but hear so many great things about them. I get that they’re great, but are they roughly 3x’s better than other classic models? A Sonola SS20 is around $5k, Titano Royal, around $5k, Super VI, around $15k. Why so much more, are they really that much better?

 

[debra]

Thank you for your detailed response. I have never played a vintage VI, but hear so many great things about them. I get that they’re great, but are they roughly 3x’s better than other classic models? A Sonola SS20 is around $5k, Titano Royal, around $5k, Super VI, around $15k. Why so much more, are they really that much better?

Don't forget the "law of diminishing returns". A $60.000 car is not three times better than a $20.000 car. A $36.000 accordion is not three times better than a $12.000 accordion. It's "somewhat better" and is definitely worth more, but not three times more. But we live in a world of supply and demand and of capitalism. A vintage Super VI is "worth" $15k because there are people willing to pay $15k for it. It's a bit like with house prices. Houses cost much more than what it costs to build them. Houses cost whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay for them.

 

[danp76]

Don't forget the "law of diminishing returns". A $60.000 car is not three times better than a $20.000 car. A $36.000 accordion is not three times better than a $12.000 accordion. It's "somewhat better" and is definitely worth more, but not three times more. But we live in a world of supply and demand and of capitalism. A vintage Super VI is "worth" $15k because there are people willing to pay $15k for it. It's a bit like with house prices. Houses cost much more than what it costs to build them. Houses cost whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay for them.

All very true! I just wonder if people have noticed a huge difference in playing a classic VI, compared to other classics. A huge difference in tone and mechanics or just a huge difference in price?

 

[Ventura]

well i see this in a different way actually, and this
may sound harsh, but there is a huge gap
(think Noah parting the Red Sea)
between collectors and true players

for the former, give them what they want, take
their money, reassure them with endless discussions
and ad nauseum pseudo proofs of betterness and exclusivity

for the latter, you simply put the straps over your shoulders,
your hands on the keys, you start to play
AND YOU JUST KNOW

period

 

[debra]

...

for the latter, you simply put the straps over your shoulders,
your hands on the keys, you start to play
AND YOU JUST KNOW

period

And in addition to "just knowing" different people also have different taste. Some people for instance don't like a vintage Super VI or Gola because 1) they may not like how any accordion with cassotto sounds, 2) they may find that these vintage instruments are tuned with not enough tremolo and perhaps 3) they can feel that the mechanics are not as good (almost without any friction) as with a very recent high-end accordion...

 

[danp76]

For those that “just know,” have you found them any better than other top vintage accordions? I have several new and older accordions, but have never tried a vintage VI. Those that have, I was hoping for justification to why they are or are not worth the price.

 

[Ventura]

a Super Vl built when Marcosigniori was the master
of the factory is like no other accordion.. that is
what i personally just knew from the first moment..

they were so good, that for decades now flim-flam
con artists have been making a fortune off of
selling boat anchor Cordovox junkers to collectors
because of ridiculous claims by pretenders
that they came off the same assembly line

they were so good that from the first moment
of Farfisa's murder an exact look-alike was being
built and shipped from the pitiful Bontiempi factory
and the lingering fame has continued to sell
carbon copies to this day largely to collectors,
though i will grudgingly admit that in the last
century there have been Vl clones under
both brands which have been more or less lovingly
built, let us say as tributes ? rather than fools gold..

they are priceless, and they are almost non-existent,
and you have to wade through a mountain of trash
to find one, and then you have to be lucky..

 

[Walker]

Hi everyone, I'm thinking about adding a vintage VI to my collection. How do they compare to other top choices from the golden era? Are they that much better than other top tier vintage accordions? A great vintage from Titano, Sonola, Excelsior, etc. can be purchased between $4-6k or so. Super VI's are typically $12-16k, are they that much better to justify the much greater market price? Thoughts? Thanks!

Some of the best new accordions can be bought for the price of a vintage VI, some say they are better sounding than any new accordion....subjective I suppose.

I'd say Super VIs and Gola 414s, circa 1960, are exquisite accordions, but I wouldn't get overstrung about them. At the end of the day, it's just an accordion, and remember... you are always at the risk of the historic handywork of have-a-go repairers. Not everyone is as conscientious as our @debra.

There are other good vintage accordions, like you mention, and there are many nice new instruments too. I've had a vintage Gola and Super VI, but, for example, I'd rather have a good Titano Royal Converter, because a Quint is more versatile to me than a stradella-only instrument... it all depends what music you want to play.

Now, if you are a "collector", fine, collect away... My own personal view is that it is better to have just a few good, interesting accordions that you enjoy playing a lot, each one having a different role, rather than collect a graveyard of silent, cobweb-gathering accordions...​

 

[danp76]

I'd say Super VIs and Gola 414s, circa 1960, are exquisite accordions, but I wouldn't get overstrung about them. At the end of the day, it's just an accordion, and remember... you are always at the risk of the historic handywork of have-a-go repairers. Not everyone is as conscientious as our @debra.

There are other good vintage accordions, like you mention, and there are many nice new instruments too. I've had a vintage Gola and Super VI, but, for example, I'd rather have a good Titano Royal Converter, because a Quint is more versatile to me than a stradella-only instrument... it all depends what music you want to play.

Now, if you are a "collector", fine, collect away... My own personal view is that it is better to have just a few good, interesting accordions that you enjoy playing a lot, each one having a different role, rather than collect a graveyard of silent, cobweb-gathering accordions...​

Do you think the Super VI sounds or plays so much better to warrant the 2-3x’s price over a Royal or other top vintage accordions?

 

[JerryPH]

The law of diminishing returns is VERY true. To get that last 5% of not just specifications or sound, but the feel, the experience you will be paying 2X to 3X more.

Experience and personal goals plays a HUGE part of the equation.

- Are you a beginner?
You will simply never understand the differences even if you hear it.

- Are you someone that never played the highest quality accordions BACK TO BACK with "lesser" accordions?
You will simply never understand the differences even if you hear it.

As someone thats played hundreds of accordions now, from $100 to $60,000 and more, I can also tell you that price is NOT an indicator of quality. Age SEEMS to be, as the older models SEEM to be higher praised. To my ears, the older "greats" sound better than the new ones, but then again, I have not played all of the best accordions on the market today, there may be an underdog in there somewhere.

A huge factor also is also that at some point, the instrument stops being "improved" to make music for the people in front of them and it's made more for the person wearing it.

That is where I am at with my Gola, if you hear it, it sounds fantastic, but then again, the Super VI, Dallapé and other great accordions sound just as fantastic as well... but for me, no other accordion gave me goose bumps when playing it... other than a Gola.

I own 16 accordions now, some very impressive, some worthless, I've played several Super VI's, $15,000-$20,000 Brandoni, Serenellini, Siwa-Figli and others, but I play the Gola the most because it is the one that gives me something no other accordion does. Even playing a stupid scale on it makes my heart smile... lol

If you look at my videos on YouTube, I have more FR-8X digital accordion videos than anything else and there is a reason the Gola hasn't yet appeared on my channel... my Gola, at this point in time, is exclusively for me and my ears, while when I want to share, I'll pull out something else.

Maybe some day I will post a video using the Gola, but I feel no real inclination to do so now.

With all that said... an accordion is an accordion... play what makes YOUR heart smile, and don't fall for any hype or BS.

 

[Tom]

The law of diminishing returns is VERY true. To get that last 5% of not just specifications or sound, but the feel, the experience you will be paying 2X to 3X more.

Experience and personal goals plays a HUGE part of the equation.

- Are you a beginner?
You will simply never understand the differences even if you hear it.

- Are you someone that never played the highest quality accordions BACK TO BACK with "lesser" accordions?
You will simply never understand the differences even if you hear it.

As someone thats played hundreds of accordions now, from $100 to $60,000 and more, I can also tell you that price is NOT an indicator of quality. Age SEEMS to be, as the older models SEEM to be higher praised. To my ears, the older "greats" sound better than the new ones, but then again, I have not played all of the best accordions on the market today, there may be an underdog in there somewhere.

A huge factor also is also that at some point, the instrument stops being "improved" to make music for the people in front of them and it's made more for the person wearing it.

That is where I am at with my Gola, if you hear it, it sounds fantastic, but then again, the Super VI, Dallapé and other great accordions sound just as fantastic as well... but for me, no other accordion gave me goose bumps when playing it... other than a Gola.

I own 16 accordions now, some very impressive, some worthless, I've played several Super VI's, $15,000-$20,000 Brandoni, Serenellini, Siwa-Figli and others, but I play the Gola the most because it is the one that gives me something no other accordion does. Even playing a stupid scale on it makes my heart smile... lol

If you look at my videos on YouTube, I have more FR-8X digital accordion videos than anything else and there is a reason the Gola hasn't yet appeared on my channel... my Gola, at this point in time, is exclusively for me and my ears, while when I want to share, I'll pull out something else.

Maybe some day I will post a video using the Gola, but I feel no real inclination to do so now.

With all that said... an accordion is an accordion... play what makes YOUR heart smile, and don't fall for any hype or ba

Very good points Jerry! I’ll stop over this afternoon for a go on the Gola!. I was fortunate to have bought my nice accordions on the advice of a good player and don’t covet a better sounding one even though I have played and liked them.

 

[danp76]

I guess my point was if anyone has owned a VI and are they worth the high price tag. I have older Sonola’s, Titano’s, and Excelsior’s, as well as several newer accordions. Hard to imagine that they sound and play so much better than lesser priced professional models. It must be because of their collector status, rather than actual tone and playability.

 

[Walker]

It's all too easy to get dazzled by a fancy accordion name, rather than its actual playability for the musician. Take the Gola 414, for instance; it's a jazz and light classics maestro, but around here, folks are hell-bent on transforming it into a Scottish musette machine—not by making interchangeable reed blocks, but full-on reed surgery! It's like they're giving the poor Gola an identity crisis, but who am I to judge? It's still a Gola, after all.

Now, if you ask me, Richard Galliano's 1960s Victoria converter might just give the Gola a serious run for its money, and let's not forget the Victoria-built Titano Royals from the same era. They're like the American cousins of Galliano's Victoria, sporting a more wallet-friendly price tag than a Gola. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

And don't get me started on the vintage Gola prices that's being inflated because, I suspect, Hohner's been having a private joke with the new ones' price tags, maybe to scare off potential buyers. Because, heaven forbid, they'd actually have to dust off their tools and craft one again. The horror, the chaos—I can almost hear the frantic scurrying from here!

 

[xingfan1227]

I wanted a Gola 414 or a Super VI, and eventually I found a nice Gola 414. At the time I wanted a Super VI more, but after searching for a while, Igot the impressions that:
1) a higher percentage of Super VI's don't have original reeds, etc., compared to the Gola's
2) good conditioned Super VI's are even more rare than Gola's and are harder to come by.

Again I don't have any numbers/base for these claims.. these are just my feelings after looking for them for a while.

Also now I've completely grown into my Gola and I like its sound more than the Super VI's. I especially like how the Master voice has that vintage organ-like sound and you can listen to it forever without getting tired. I think it's someting unique.

 

[Zevy]

I have played a few Scandalli Super VI and Settimio Soprani Artist VI. I thought I would be blown away, but I was not. Unless you are a collector, as @Walker said, I would suggest that you actually play the instrument before buying or bidding on it.
Good luck !

 

[JerryPH]

I guess my point was if anyone has owned a VI and are they worth the high price tag.

You kind of cannot ask because that is too global a question. WHICH SPECIFIC accordion are we talking about.

Not all Gola are equal (I have played a $60,000 fair accordion, I have played a $25000 DREAM machine) not all Super VI are the same even if they were made on the same line and serial numbers are 1001 and 1002. How were they treated, where were they stored, what is their condition tune, etc.

Very few accordions are worth their asking price but closer to what the right buyer wants to pay. Is a Super VI worth the high price? Yes, but only if it is in excellent condition and properly maintained.

 

[JerryPH]

I wanted a Gola 414 or a Super VI, and eventually I found a nice Gola 414. At the time I wanted a Super VI more, but after searching for a while, Igot the impressions that:
1) a higher percentage of Super VI's don't have original reeds, etc., compared to the Gola's
2) good conditioned Super VI's are even more rare than Gola's and are harder to come by.

That's not a Gola or Super VI thing, thats common amongst all higher end accordions, dishonest people just love to steal the reeds out of them. I saw that on a Dallapé Super Maestro too, someone ripped them out and replaced them with reeds from a low end accordion.

Also now I've completely grown into my Gola and I like its sound more than the Super VI's. I especially like how the Master voice has that vintage organ-like sound and you can listen to it forever without getting tired. I think it's someting unique.

Who am I to argue that... lol. Have you ordered/received your certificate from Hohner yet? I'd highly recommend it.

Also, generally speaking there were way more Super VI made than Gola. Gola are basically all made by order only, where the Super VI was a full production unit. Also depending on which Gola, some were even rarer. A Gola 459 is likely the 2nd rarest Gola to find (I only found 2 in the whole world during the time I was looking, and one was complete junk), and likely the rarest would be a Gola (I believe?) 646... basically a button version of the Gola 459. Only one I know of is in the Hohner museum in Trossingen.

 

[xingfan1227]

That's not a Gola or Super VI thing, thats common amongst all higher end accordions, dishonest people just love to steal the reeds out of them. I saw that on a Dallapé Super Maestro too, someone ripped them out and replaced them with reeds from a low end accordion.


Who am I to argue that... lol. Have you ordered/received your certificate from Hohner yet? I'd highly recommend it.

Also, generally speaking there were way more Super VI made than Gola. Gola are basically all made by order only, where the Super VI was a full production unit. Also depending on which Gola, some were even rarer. A Gola 459 is likely the 2nd rarest Gola to find (I only found 2 in the whole world during the time I was looking, and one was complete junk), and likely the rarest would be a Gola (I believe?) 646... basically a button version of the Gola 459. Only one I know of is in the Hohner museum in Trossingen.

Yup of course I've ordered the certificate . Mine was made in 1965 and delivered in new York.