Why not stainless steel reeds?

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Perhaps this has been discussed before and I missed it, but why are accordion reeds not made of stainless steel? Where I live, the humidity is extreme, and by far the number one problem I see is rusty reeds. I install dessicant packets inside all my and my clients accordions and in the cases, and keep a dehumidifier going around the clock, all to no avail. I have a melodica-type instrument called a Clavietta (a piano version of the Accordina) that has stainless steel reeds, and they sound great. Why have I never come across an accordion with stainless steel reeds? The near inevitability of reed corrosion in a wet climate would seem to be a major flaw in accordion design.

Edit: I see now that was discussed here in 2020. It was mentioned that stainless steel is not as loud as regular steel, and its true that my Clavietta is quieter than any of my melodicas, which have brass reeds, and quieter than an accordion, so I assume volume is the main reason. Still, I wish that reed makers would experiment with other materials for those of us in unavoidably damp climes.

 

[debra]

Indeed, stainless steel is less "springy" and that causes the reeds to not produce as much volume as regular steel. Stainless steel reeds are somewhat comparable to brass reeds.
Another reason why stainless steel is not used for accordion reeds is that regular steel is much cheaper than stainless steel. In our capitalist world production needs to be as cheap as possible and the sale price as high as possible, in order to maximize profit. While there is a good technical reason for reeds being made out of regular steel all other steel parts in an accordion would benefit from being stainless steel (like the "catorcetti" in the bass mechanism, and the rods or "axles" in the keyboard mechanism) but again, it's too expensive.

 

[Ventura]

Stainless is also more brittle, having a smaller window of tolerance
for the steel to be tempered reliably for maximum flexibility

both Gola and Scandalli had the skill and resources to achieve this
in their factories, as well as the will to spend the time and money to
figure it out

the Scandalli i have, which was originally built for and imported into
the Soviet Union, was intended for difficult environments, and
was fitted with Stainless Steel reeds..

this is an LMMM box with "Warsaw" tuning... quite special
with an amazing history

i doubt any reedmakers today could craft a set of stainless reeds
AND guarantee their durability for a lifetime

 

[Ffingers]

Stainless steels, like all steels, are an alloy.
I am not qualified to comment on their acoustic qualities other than to note that they vary quite considerably in their composition.

 

[debra]

Stainless steels, like all steels, are an alloy.
I am not qualified to comment on their acoustic qualities other than to note that they vary quite considerably in their composition.

I have no experience with stainless steel reeds in an accordion, but my accordina has stainless steel reeds and while playing (and certainly while doing a bit of tuning as needed) I clearly noticed that the reeds are weaker than regular steel reeds. (They produce a weaker sound, and they require fewer scratches for the same chance of pitch compared to steel reeds.)

 

[nagant27]

I remember seeing “acme” brand accordions that had stainless steel reeds I believe. Some special alloy they claimed could never rust. I’ve never played one.

 

[debra]

I remember seeing “acme” brand accordions that had stainless steel reeds I believe. Some special alloy they claimed could never rust. I’ve never played one.

Stainless steel is indeed an alloy. It comes in different varieties, different "grades" of resistance to rust. When you live near the coast the difference is between absolute rubbish (still rusts quite fast) and somewhat rubbish (if you're lucky will only rust after a few years).
When you live far from the coast stainless steel reeds may indeed never rust, but the same is true for regular steel reeds...
I don't believe there is any stainless steel that is guaranteed (warranted) not to rust when you live within something like 50 miles from the coast (some could be 50km, but still, you need to be a long way from any coast).

 

[Dingo40]

Here's an even earlier thread on this old subject:

Stainless steel reeds?

Seems as if stainless steel reeds were already in use in 1959! :) Anyone still using them? :huh:

www.accordionists.info

 

[Dingo40]

I remember seeing “acme” brand accordions that had stainless steel reeds I believe.

Sounds like something out of a Wily Coyote and the Roadrunner cartoon

 

[kimric]

Spring steel is generally more flexible that its stainless equivalent. Stainless eeds would have to be designed differently and the manufacturing process would probably be different, you might have to anneal/temper the reed after punching. The amount of metal used is minimal so the cost of the stainless would not really be an issue.
It may have work hardening issues depending on the alloy so the tuning might not hold very well. There is probably a reason that melodicas and harmonicas don't really use it a lot. Those forums talk about the pros and cons.

 

[Jim2010]

Do accordina reeds rust? There must be moisture as a result of the breath passing through the reeds. Or is the rust that has been mentioned about accordion reeds the result of salt in the coastal air? And if so, will my accordina reeds rust since I live 1/4 mile from the coast?

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

Do accordina reeds rust? There must be moisture as a result of the breath passing through the reeds. Or is the rust that has been mentioned about accordion reeds the result of salt in the coastal air? And if so, will my accordina reeds rust since I live 1/4 mile from the coast?

My clavietta (a piano version of the accordina, essentially identical except for the keyboard) has been around since the 60s and has no rust on the stainless steel reeds, nor have the accordinas I've worked on. Unless you're playing it on the beach, I wouldn't worry about it. Accordion reeds are another story and will rust anywhere with excessive humidity.

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

HARMONIKAS will fit stainless steel reeds to custom made plates. A few yrs ago I worked on a wind blown instrument (a Hohner…I forget its name). The brass reeds were shot so the owner paid for new long plates fitted with SS. it was all quite expensive.

 

[Jim2010]

My clavietta (a piano version of the accordina, essentially identical except for the keyboard) has been around since the 60s and has no rust on the stainless steel reeds, nor have the accordinas I've worked on. Unless you're playing it on the beach, I wouldn't worry about it. Accordion reeds are another story and will rust anywhere with excessive humidity.

That is good to hear. Thank you.

 

[KiwiSqueezer]

'Stainless steel' is a term that covers a huge range of alloys, which have different properties. I don't know what attributes are needed for successful reeds. The stiffness of the material and its density are important reed attributes, and, given that both 'spring steel' and 'brass', which have very different physical properties, can make successful reeds, I'd be surprised if one stainless steel alloy couldn't be found that would work well. The ferritic family of SS can be hardened (like 'spring steel' has been, to some extent), and you can make SS springs, of course, but it's far more difficult (and that means time and money...) to heat-treat SS than (most) hardenable steels. The problem is most likely economics and availability. It's not easy to obtain many SS alloys in thin sheet or strip form, and SS is more expensive than medium- or high-carbon steel.

 

[ivangunkel]

And couldn't this question of the volume that the stainless steel voice reaches be solved with the tempering? I played a Brazilian accordion of the Todeschini brand, which has the voices in stainless steel, and it has even more volume than the others that have the Swedish steel voices. Some photos of the voices attached.

 

[Dingo40]

Well,
I suspect, for the most part, it's the manufacturer's natural resistance to change: it was good enough for grandpa, it's good enough for me!
Most purchasers have no idea what pitch the accordion is tuned to, why should they care about what metal the reeds are made of?
Even so, some have been made of "stainless steel."
I also wonder why accordion reeds aren't made of brass or bronze ?
See here:

can harmonica reeds be made of brass? - Google Search

Just a very brief glimpse into how harmonica reeds are made:

 

[boxplayer4000]

Are the differences in the 'springiness' of the different metals (steel/stainless steel/ brass etc.) not expressed in their respective moduli of elasticity, often expressed in Newtons/mm2?

 

[tcabot]

They have been made from other materials.

I've got a set of harmonium brass reeds that are very loud and have a very pleasant timbre. [They are also 3-4x the size of accordion reeds and have a different profile].
I've made my first phosphor bronze reed yesterday, and it works and has a pleasant timbre. In "small" (i.e. accordion) size it's noticeably quieter than top of the line steel a-manos. It's still very loud compared to, say, a classical guitar. Personally I'll take a nice timbre over volume any time (why have an extremely loud reed if you don't want to listen to it).

While I can't speak for the longevity of brass/copper/pb reeds over a period of, say, a decade of hard use, I can say with absolute certainty that given enough reed maker's skill, a quality reed can be made from any springy metal, perhaps bar titanium (that stuff deforms too easily...yes, I've tried making a reed out of it too but ran out of patience).

So here we have it. A high quality reed can be made out of brass. The material difference between brass and, say, cs95 steel is huge.
The difference between, say, CS95 and CS75 or stiffer grades of stainless is miniscule in comparison.
So in my opinion, anyone who thinks that steel grade is absolutely key to a high quality reed has simply been brainwashed by the accordion salesmen (who are most likely clueless: their skill is to sell stuff, not to know how it works).

Two things to note:

1) Stiffer steel seems to produce a louder reed, compared to, say, brass, if the reed size is very small. That is, if you want to pack as many reeds into a small box, at the expense of timbre, response, balance and common sense (i.e. you want to make an accordion) then you probably want very stiff steel.
2) You can't just make a dumb copy of an existing steel reed dimensions if you use a different material. That is, you have to invest time & money into developing good stainless/brass/pb/copper/titanium reeds. Accordion factories seem to be going bust even without these extra costs.