How does the cassotto block come out?

[John Doe]

Does anyone happen to know how the cassotto foundation block (the one with the hook to lock the accordion closed) comes out- or if it is even supposed to without major surgery?

I need to get the slides in the base completely out to work on them and even after pulling the two reed blocks there just doesn't seem to be room to get at the slides. If I could pull the whole foundation block up and out - after removing the reed blocks of course- it would be pretty straightforward. I am concerned that if I remove the row of screws under the strip along the top edge of the foundation block and lift it up that the pallets et al are going to go whacko (technical term) and make it impossible to reassemble without pulling and then resetting all the keys which on a double cassotto model may be something I'm reluctant to cope with.

It's a Morino VI M PA.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

They are made different ways. Some of them have a plate that comes off but can be difficult to seal back. Morino IDK.

 

[John Doe]

That would be my apprehension.

It may well be built into the basic accoridon case in a way that is not intended to be readily removable. I had hoped that perhaps there was some "loosen these" and then it will (within reaon) practically place itself into your outstretched hand.

That it varies from maker to maker is not surprising but increases the potential for adhesives being involved. Wood pieces glued in place almost never come out gracefully for me.

Thanks- Henry

 

[Ikesaccordions]

The plate that comes off the chamber goes over the key valves. Sometimes I have had to force it off if it was not removable and make a new one to be able to adjust them. To get the plate over the slides off, there are tiny screws holding the plate down. If they are stuck, I suppose you might drill a hole in the casing over each one, and then use a small screwdriver through that hole. After you reassemble it. put a small dowel in each hole and refinish the covering material. It would be on an area not prominent.

 

[debra]

The construction of the tone chamber is different on different accordions. What a lot of them do have in common is that they have a plate covered with leather, with the holes for the sound to go through. Just like in many non-cassotto accordions that plate with leather is held in place with tiny bolts. You need a very very small screwdriver to get to these bolts, or a screwdriver with a 90 degree mechanism. The plate may or may not also include a part that curves over the top of the cassotto and has screws there.

 

[JIM D.]

The construction of tone chambers in most accordions is very similar and in most cases only differs in
the design of the mechanism that hold the reed blocks in place. Depending on the quality build of
the accordion some of these mechanisms range from crude to quality designs and some even
spring assisted. Questions on removeable of the tone chamber reed blocks should refer to the
make & model of the accordion and of course pic's will help.

 

[John Doe]

The removal of the blocks on the Morino is well implemented and very straightforward. The issue is the leather covered plate held in by teeny tiny screws which are very close to prestripped by the factory (they don't have to hold much as the plate is held in by the blcks in use).

Getting at them with an appropriately modified screwdriver, not losing them within seconds, removing the plate and slides with limited space without somehow damaging the frail bakelite slides (more than they are which is why I'm doing this in the first place) then reassembling- in especial reinserting the aforementioned teeny tiny screws into place in the prestripped holes, is why I was hoping against hope that I could pull the whole foundation block for the cassotto and get decent working room.

Not likely to happen so I guess I live with it.

PS Not having a "fully functional repair shop" I'm not equipped to remanufacture the slides out of duraluminum sheet which would be the correct solution in any case.

 

[Ventura]

i have noticed many times the little screws in accordions are not magnetic, but
there are special screwdrivers used in Electronics that have various schemes
for "holding" on to a screw so you can reach in to a spot like this and get
it started without losing it.. one type has 2 flat blades for the screw, and a slidoing
wedge piece in between so they press outward on the slot in the screwhead

the screw itself needs to have very well defined 90 degree slot edges

mine were made by EASCO for various brands, and they work even on small screws

there are powerful, sharp, steel round Hole punches that could easily pop
nicely sized holes in those new aluminum slides with little or no distortion

i have a few, they are often found in Machinist/industrial tool catalogs

good luck..

 

[John Doe]

Thanks.

What I really need is the simple self control to live with a large multifeatured accordion which is fully functional and in good repair in every regard but that the middle reed bank in the chamber is always active (LMMMH configuration) and leave well enough alone.

But I'm a sucker for any excuse to acquire new tools...

 

[Tom]

You can do it!

 

[Ikesaccordions]

What he's wanting to do seems to be to take out the whole chamber to get to the slides. He's indicating the slides aren't metal.
These plastic slides can eventually deteriorate, like the Great Pyramids or anything else made by God or Man, possibly excepting old violins.

 

[boxplayer4000]

henry d:
In your post at the head of this thread you say you 'need to get the slides out to work on them'.
Daft question but why do you think you need to get them out; are they 'stiff', bent, dirty??

 

[John Doe]

The plastic slides became brittle with age. The design is such that there is a raised (as in 1/4 inch tall) notched pillar on the end of the slide which is engaged by the register switch arm end to push the slide back and forth. The cassotto medium bank is attached to a linkage that is worked both by the normal switching mechanism and the thumb slides on the edge of the keyboard. Those operate with a lot mor "slam" than the normal switches have and as the plastic aged the cumulative slamming broke the "notched pillar" off. I tried to fit it in place by crafting a replacement pillar onto a strip of plastic and gluing it onto the end of the remaining slide. Just didn't work out- I need access to a longer strip of the slide to do it right. Were I able to do so I'd get a whole new slide but my efforts via Hohner have come to naught so I'm down to "live with it" (probably doable), or bite off more than I can probably cope with at present.

I'm looking at special tools though...

My own scrawled representation of the situation in the Morino vs a more conventional set up. You can see how the Morino would wind up with a lot more stress.

 

[Ventura]

not having ever seen the morino slide, generally bakelite stuff is not thin
so i am also wondering how thick the aluminum needs to be to fully
replace the bakelite yet keep things airtight, and if you can even get
aluminum in that thickness, or if you would have to plane a piece
down the whole length and how you could keep it consistent
unless you had literally a full blown machine shop full of tools

i am guessing you simply cannot swipe an aluminum slide from, say, an excelsior
vintage Morino or other full size box with close dimensions of the reedblock base
and reedspacing.. it wouldn't be nearly thick enough ?

 

[John Doe]

I thought of and then despaired of the "cannibalize a slide" from another accordion option.

-It's a 45 key model so a slide from a 41 wouldn't work- and slot alignment might well turn out to be an issue with odd length blocks.
-The end with the slotted pillar would still have to have a pillar grafted on pretty much identical to the original; unless I reworked the whole shift lever action the additional length at the lever end to reach a conventional slot in the slide type means that the travel of the slide would be substantially greater.
-The thickness might be wrong- though I believe I could have coped with that. Sheet teflon, which comes in pretty precise thichness gradations could be applied to one side of the metal slide and the openings cut out with a razor.
-The width might be wrong which would be painful to deal with without proper machine tools though changing the channel in the base block rather than adjusting the slide itself might be practicable.
-As I become ever more reclusive, I really have no practical way to scare up donor accordions and look for decent slides that might work. I'm sort of stuck with what I have and I've got nothing suitable. There does not appear to be a glut of Hohner Morinos out there as parts donors- at least not available to me.
-I can probably/surely eventually get the leather covered plate off, and back on again. In order to even come close to doing this right I'd have to have it off to measure and contemplate- in place there's just not room to tinker properly. Given that it's not going off on off on off on multiple times with me doing the work it would probably mean substantial down time searching and adjusting with the cat climbing all over the carcass in the hours of darkness to investigate ... And if I do something to the family cat I'm a dead man.
-I do not, never did, and presumably never will, have the ability to make a full slide from sheet metal as other than a hideous workaround botch on a small accordion such as a cajun button box where you can get at things if you're handy with wood glue afterwards.

Negative Normanitis writ large, I realize- but I'm putting any thoughts of repair in the rear view mirror. It will stay as is. Check the Sunday papers for my obit in a couple of years and then scarf the thing up cheap at the estate sale.

Thanks for everybody's help- I'm folding the flag on this one.

 

[Ventura]

shares a glass of Chianti with you..

finito !

 

[boxplayer4000]

henry d:
I have a 1VM, which is in the same period as your V1M and your drawing of the plastic slide and notched pillar is very like a slide in my bass end which is missing. (one slide is missing but it lies close to another slide, which is in place and ALMOST the same design). Hohner, in Germany, who I find very cooperative and helpful, explained that they had spares but a whole lot of them had been - they meant - chucked in a drawer before they were individually marked and identified and now they could only supply a spare if the broken parts were sent to them first. Things came to a halt for me at that point because my slide was just missing, no broken parts, nothing.
Surely Hohner USA could help as they will have goods going both ways on a regular basis.

 

[John Doe]

henry d:
I have a 1VM, which is in the same period as your V1M and your drawing of the plastic slide and notched pillar is very like a slide in my bass end which is missing. (one slide is missing but it lies close to another slide, which is in place and ALMOST the same design). Hohner, in Germany, who I find very cooperative and helpful, explained that they had spares but a whole lot of them had been - they meant - chucked in a drawer before they were individually marked and identified and now they could only supply a spare if the broken parts were sent to them first. Things came to a halt for me at that point because my slide was just missing, no broken parts, nothing.
Surely Hohner USA could help as they will have goods going both ways on a regular basis.

I'm afraid that I'm just going to leave well enough alone.

Taking the two slides out - the original one that broke and the matching one (two slides to a given voice of course) which I trimmed thw end off of so that it didn't lurch in and out of the sound when I was switching registers- and the mailing them off is not something I'd chance. I already tried Hohner USA whe couldn't help and Hohner Germany was pretty noncommital. I surely don't hold that lack of parts provisioning for a 75 year old accordion against Hohner. That they'd even discuss it was sort of a surprise quite frankly.

I thank you for your thoughts, best wishes-

Henry

 

[Dingo40]

What surprises me mostly is that a big name firm like Hohner would use what to me would, at face value, appear to be most unsuitable material for the slides.
That they have actually survived decades of use seems to be a miracle to me!
But then, we also have the episode of the unsuitable palette glue and the synthetic sponges that simply evaporated into thin air.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Hohner USA no longer exists. Hohner no longer exists. The slides last longer if no oil gets on them. That's the reason for the admonition "Nicht Ohlen!" you might see near a switch mechanism.
Taiwanese bought the Hohner company, and most of it is made in China now.
Weltmeister same place.
Other companies are getting reeds there. The reeds break a lot because they aren't polished.
Accordions are subject to Gresham's Law.