"Midi" socket change?

[Pipemajor]

Hi all,
just bought a Borsini CBA fitted with "midi" and mics.
Stupidly it was only when I got it home I realized the "midi" socket is not the usual 5 pin female but a 5 round pin male socket.
The seller is an elderly man who has suffered a stroke and can't play anymore.
The accordion is to come with a midi "box", which he forgot to bring back from Ireland on a recent trip, but assures me he will collect it along with the cables in the next couple of weeks.
He insists that this is a midi and they come in different types.
Now I wish to use this with my BK7 so need to change the socket.
I've enclosed a photo of the existing socket and would like to know if I can just change it to a "normal" 5 pin midi socket.
Any advice will be most welcome.

 

[KeysFla]

Looks like it has been hacked. Get someone to pin it out and install a proper midi socket.

 

[bruce1530]

Chances are that the existing connector will have midi on it, and also power for the internal electronics. The external box will have a power supply and a standard midi output.

 

[SteveBox]

This does not look like the pin spacing of a normal 5-pin DIN connector used for MIDI. So as suggested, it may well be a non-standard connector providing both power to the accordion electronics and MIDI output. When you get the MIDI-box, hopefully it will come with the required cable.

 

[boxplayer4000]

Pipemajor: It will narrow down the possibilities if you can identify the maker of the midi system. A look inside the accordion might help.
The 'midi box' the previous owner talks about could be the common, simple device with two midi connections (one to the accordion and one to an expander) but also has a power supply in it.

 

[bruce1530]

It's definitely not a standard DIN/midi connector. It's a "5 pole circular multipole connector" with a screwed barrel - commonly used for CB radio mics etc. They deliberately wouldn't have used a standard midi connector here, due to the need for power etc.

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg08610/socket-multipole-5p/dp/CN21154

As @boxplayer4000 says, post a photo of what's inside

 

[Ventura]

there is usually a reason for these hardware choices being different..
usually to prevent misunderstanding

like if someone used a 3 pin 1/4" audio jack
to wire a 110 or 220 Volt device, and then someone bought
it who didn't get a manual with it, and assumed
"it's been hacked"
so they take a blow torch and a pipe wrench to it
and "fix" it before they understand the original
"Why"

Ka Boom

(to borrow a line from Minecraft)

 

[John Doe]

As a lazy and ineptly inventive college student I set up all the speakers in my stereo/ faux quadrophonic Dynaco kit amp based audio construct with jacks on both the amp outputs and for the speaker inputs. I used 14 gauge electric extension cord wire to do this. I left the wire in the factory assembled extension cords. So far so good...

For jacks I just used standard 120v plug connectors on the amp outputs and for the speaker inputs. Simply run the widely available extension cords as needed and if too short, throw another cord into the line. Worked great until Larry B encountered a loose cord one afternoon and plugged it into a wall outlet.

A very loud 60 cycle wave of sound followed by dead silence as my speaker completely fried. Like wow, man- far out.

Not exactly the words I used at the time.

 

[Ventura]

ah yes..when young, tis a fine line between
"make do with what you got"
vs:
" i have a better idea.. Mom was right, i am a genius "

 

[JerryPH]

It's definitely not a standard DIN/midi connector. It's a "5 pole circular multipole connector" with a screwed barrel - commonly used for CB radio mics etc. They deliberately wouldn't have used a standard midi connector here, due to the need for power etc.

The CB radio connector was the first thing that came to my head too, this is not a MIDII connector. That said, it”s definitely in a bit of a “butchered” mode, very poorly done… I hope it’s just the plug that’s wrong and that the other side matches and that you really have MIDI. Keep us in the loop!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Hi all,
just bought a Borsini CBA fitted with "midi" and mics.
Stupidly it was only when I got it home I realized the "midi" socket is not the usual 5 pin female but a 5 round pin male socket.
The seller is an elderly man who has suffered a stroke and can't play anymore.
The accordion is to come with a midi "box", which he forgot to bring back from Ireland on a recent trip, but assures me he will collect it along with the cables in the next couple of weeks.
He insists that this is a midi and they come in different types.
Now I wish to use this with my BK7 so need to change the socket.
I've enclosed a photo of the existing socket and would like to know if I can just change it to a "normal" 5 pin midi socket.
Any advice will be most welcome.

Most, if not all, of the wired midi setups I’ve seen have a ‘firing cable’ that connects the accordion to a ‘box.’ The firing cable carries power to the printed circuit boards in the accordion. It also carries signals from the accordion to the ‘box,’ which then outputs midi messages via 5-pin DIN connectors. But the firing cable can have one of several kinds of connectors. Early systems used a round, threaded, six-pin Amphenol type connector. I’ve also seen 9-pin and 15-pin D-sub connectors with locking mechanisms on firing cables.

The ‘box’ will have a connector ro match the one on the accordion end of the firing cable. It will also have, at minimum, a midi-out connector. It may also have a midi-in connector and/or a separate midi-out for use with an expander, and/or audio-left and right jacks, and/or headphone jacks, and/or input jacks for one or more pedals. It will definitely have a line cord for AC power.

 

[Ventura]

and best doublecheck what the line voltage and frequency was
in the country it was used/sold into originally..

not sure, but i don't know when voltages were standardized across
Europe, so adding the caution

 

[JerryPH]

Most, if not all, of the wired midi setups I’ve seen have a ‘firing cable’ that connects the accordion to a ‘box.’ The firing cable carries power to the printed circuit boards in the accordion. It also carries signals from the accordion to the ‘box,’ which then outputs midi messages via 5-pin DIN connectors. But the firing cable can have one of several kinds of connectors. Early systems used a round, threaded, six-pin Amphenol type connector. I’ve also seen 9-pin and 15-pin D-sub connectors with locking mechanisms on firing cables.

Yes, the 9+ pin ones were common on the older analog electronic accordions. Nothing wrong with them as long as they are in good condition and all the electronics works.

The ‘box’ will have a connector ro match the one on the accordion end of the firing cable. It will also have, at minimum, a midi-out connector. It may also have a midi-in connector and/or a separate midi-out for use with an expander, and/or audio-left and right jacks, and/or headphone jacks, and/or input jacks for one or more pedals. It will definitely have a line cord for AC power.

If it has an external box that leads to a MIDI connector or has an external tone box with the MIDI connector, one is good to go. In "those days", though, the MIDI was much less complex, just off/on signals for the notes, no provision for things like bellows dynamics or aftertouch. I never really missed it back then (or today when I play my older electronic boxes), to be honest, it was all fun and sounded good to me.

 

[Pipemajor]

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions.
I guess I'll just have to wait until the box arrives to see what I've got.
I was shown a recent video of it all in action, so, at least it works

 

[JerryPH]

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions.
I guess I'll just have to wait until the box arrives to see what I've got.
I was shown a recent video of it all in action, so, at least it works

Wow, that's always a good sign. I know my Iorio electronic accordion needs some electrical work, but that one is so old that I am not really motivated in dropping money on it. My Elkavox, on the other hand, still works 100%, and that is one that I would invest money in, if it ever needs it.

Good luck with it, post pics and videos when you can.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Any news?

 

[Pipemajor]

Any news?

Nothing as yet.
I phoned the seller a couple of days ago and the midi box is still in Ireland.
His trip last month gad to be postponed as his wife was taken ill, but he hopes to collect it over Christmas.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Nothing as yet.
I phoned the seller a couple of days ago and the midi box is still in Ireland.
His trip last month gad to be postponed as his wife was taken ill, but he hopes to collect it over Christmas.
Fingers crossed.

Good luck. I’m getting curious to see how it all sets up.

 

[Pipemajor]

it's been a long wait!!
At long last I've got the "box"to connect up to the BK7.
As was previously guessed, it has an input from the accordion and a normal midi out socket to the BK7.
I eagerly connected it up and it all worked......or so I thought.
I noticed that the bass buttons were sounding an octave higher and the left hand chords seemed low pitched.
After much head scratching and trying different things, I found that the bass notes were being sent to the LWR part and the chords sent to the MBS part!!
The BK7 works fine with my Roland so I knew the problem wasn't there, so I opened up the accordion hoping to find a row of dip switches for configuration but no such luck. Checked all connectors seated correctly.
I can get it to work correctly by changing th BK7 settings. ie pressing the Octave button and reversing the settings between MBS and LWR.
But this means that all the inbuilt sounds come out wrong on the left hand side.
Now my knowledge of midi is virtually non existent apart from the fact that only 3 wires are used to transmit the data to the BK7, so the electronics must decide which channels are used.
I did contact the seller again, but he was unable to explain, only that his son had used it recently (in Ireland) and it was working correctly.
As he is well into his 80s and has suffered a stroke I was unable to pursue it further.
He did say that the midi was installed by a Scottish accordion dealer "some time ago", he couldn't remember when or who it was.
I had a look inside the" box", but it only had a power supply and a transistor(?) with an accordion in and midi out sockets.
I wonder if any of our resident midi afficionados would have any suggestions please.

 

[Pipemajor]

Strange how, as soon as you commit something to type, the solution hits you in the face
I was looking on youtube for a different reason regarding the BK7 when it suddenly occurred to me that the BK7 was set to power up using Roland settings.
I started it up, went into the Wizard, then selected Accordion2 setting.
It asks you to hit a RH note, left hand Bass note then left hand chord note.
It then configures it and Voila, all behaving properly. Duh!!