Whats a decent price for a Used Roland Fr8x/

[Mike K]

Never owned a digital accordion. considering it, seems they go for $8000 new. How about PariMarie midi accordions, any opinions on them. The Pari Marie has reeds also, I think. How is midi accordion different from V accordion?

 

[Ben-jammin]

Generally speaking a “midi” accordion doesn’t usually have the components onboard to actually generate the electronic sounds. Where the Roland V accordions do (I believe some need external amp and speaker however). The midi accordions from the digital side are kind of like a computer keyboard where they need an additional component to take the digital midi signal and generate the sound (I use a midi interface and an iPad running an app) and then amplified that sound for a speaker. I can’t speak about all midi accordions, mine (SEM model 500 which was sold under a number of brands including PierMaria) is an older one and the bellows pressure/velocity doesn’t affect the dynamics. Midi accordions are sold both with reeds and without.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

There are several differences. Some Roland models have velocity-sensitive trebles and aftertouch, both of which mean that those keyboards are somewhat deeper than those of midi-equipped acoustic accordions. The bellows feel is definitely different, no matter how the bellows curve and/or air bleed setting, but a little experimentation can usually give the player a satisfactory setting. Sounds can be customized to a greater degree on Rolands than on midi-equipped accordions. I have a midi-equipped acoustic accordion, an Axe-Cord (a midi-equipped keytar with 41 treble piano keys and 96 bass buttons,) and a Roland FR-4x. I can go from one instrument to another with little conscious adaptation, but that comes with having all of them for some time.

 

[debra]

Considering that electronic devices have a much shorter expected lifespan than acoustic accordions and that the FR8x was introduced in 2013 already... you are 1) paying for what is today considered old technology and 2) the production date of a new one for sale now may actually be 5 or more years ago... the purely economic value of a used FR8x should be less than half of the "new" price. It may be hard to find a deal for a "decent" price because most V-Accordion owners have an unrealistic expectation about how long their instrument retains its value, an expectation based on what happens with acoustic accordions.
When you buy an acoustic accordion it will keep its value for longer because when the midi becomes outdated or broken it still has its value as acoustic accordion that will outlast the electronics by a factor of 4 or 5.

 

[JIM D.]

A used FR-8x in fine shape from a Roland dealer for now should go for $4500.00 to $5000.00 USD.
This will increase shortly as Roland has just recently increased the dealer price of a new FR-8x to $9000.00 USD.

 

[aemit]

Considering that electronic devices have a much shorter expected lifespan than acoustic accordions and that the FR8x was introduced in 2013 already... you are 1) paying for what is today considered old technology and 2) the production date of a new one for sale now may actually be 5 or more years ago... the purely economic value of a used FR8x should be less than half of the "new" price. It may be hard to find a deal for a "decent" price because most V-Accordion owners have an unrealistic expectation about how long their instrument retains its value, an expectation based on what happens with acoustic accordions.
When you buy an acoustic accordion it will keep its value for longer because when the midi becomes outdated or broken it still has its value as acoustic accordion that will outlast the electronics by a factor of 4 or 5.

I just sold a 20 year old synthesizer, in perfect working condition, an electronic device, for 1/3 of what it was worth 20 years ago. This was a digital instrument, if it was analog it probably sold for more than its new value (vintage equipment). In my experience, electronics last at least 10 years (my laptop), but it is the mechanics that degrade over time (pots, switches, jacks). I have a 66 year old tube radio, a 40 year old VCR, a +30 year old amp, all in fine working condition. As for a digital accordion, I suspect that its mechanics will fail before the electronics.
And "old technology" may be perfectly valid for smartphones or laptops, but not to the same extent for electronic musical instruments (of course, there are technological advances made).

 

[debra]

I just sold a 20 year old synthesizer, in perfect working condition, an electronic device, for 1/3 of what it was worth 20 years ago. This was a digital instrument, if it was analog it probably sold for more than its new value (vintage equipment). In my experience, electronics last at least 10 years (my laptop), but it is the mechanics that degrade over time (pots, switches, jacks). I have a 66 year old tube radio, a 40 year old VCR, a +30 year old amp, all in fine working condition. As for a digital accordion, I suspect that its mechanics will fail before the electronics.
And "old technology" may be perfectly valid for smartphones or laptops, but not to the same extent for electronic musical instruments (of course, there are technological advances made).

I guess I should have been clearer, as the (possible sale) value of both electronic and acoustic accordions does not simple gradually decrease over time, but when very old instruments (20-30 years is very old for electronic versus 60-80 years for acoustic) that are still in good working condition start increasing in value again. It is similar to the 66 year old tube radio that was probably worth very little after 20 to 30 years, but as it became a functional antique it goes up in value. Some things degrade indeed, but can often still be replaced. Just like pots, switches and jacks in old electronics can be replaced wax, leathers and if needed also reeds can be replaced and even other mechanical parts like register switch mechanisms are still available, all making it possible to have a fully functional 80-year old accordion. If you can keep a Roland FR8x fully functional for a long time its value will first go down as new and better technology becomes available (but that does not seem to have happened yet) but if you can keep it for long enough it will become "vintage" and later "antique" and that means that if fully functional it becomes very valuable again. I wouldn't be surprised if something comes on the market soon (maybe Proxima if it ever materializes...) and then the value of an used FR8x will plummet, but later it will increase again. In my experience electronics suffers much more from that "sudden dip" in the value than an acoustic accordion.
Jim D just posted that the dealer price of a new FR-8x has recently gone up. This can only mean there is still enough demand for it to not make it highly pressing to develop something new and better. (And that's a shame as the FR-8x in my opinion is still too far from being a viable replacement for an acoustic accordion. The world of digital pianos has seen much more improvement making them more and more viable as replacement for an acoustic piano, but in the accordion world there was essentially no progress in the V-accordion for way too long now.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I guess I should have been clearer, as the (possible sale) value of both electronic and acoustic accordions does not simple gradually decrease over time, but when very old instruments (20-30 years is very old for electronic versus 60-80 years for acoustic) that are still in good working condition start increasing in value again. It is similar to the 66 year old tube radio that was probably worth very little after 20 to 30 years, but as it became a functional antique it goes up in value. Some things degrade indeed, but can often still be replaced. Just like pots, switches and jacks in old electronics can be replaced wax, leathers and if needed also reeds can be replaced and even other mechanical parts like register switch mechanisms are still available, all making it possible to have a fully functional 80-year old accordion. If you can keep a Roland FR8x fully functional for a long time its value will first go down as new and better technology becomes available (but that does not seem to have happened yet) but if you can keep it for long enough it will become "vintage" and later "antique" and that means that if fully functional it becomes very valuable again. I wouldn't be surprised if something comes on the market soon (maybe Proxima if it ever materializes...) and then the value of an used FR8x will plummet, but later it will increase again. In my experience electronics suffers much more from that "sudden dip" in the value than an acoustic accordion.
Jim D just posted that the dealer price of a new FR-8x has recently gone up. This can only mean there is still enough demand for it to not make it highly pressing to develop something new and better. (And that's a shame as the FR-8x in my opinion is still too far from being a viable replacement for an acoustic accordion. The world of digital pianos has seen much more improvement making them more and more viable as replacement for an acoustic piano, but in the accordion world there was essentially no progress in the V-accordion for way too long now.

Hello Paul,

So, Roland raised the price of a new FR-8x to $9000, and yet, they haven’t improved the instrument beyond what it was last month. Since there isn’t even a rumor of a new model coming out of Roland (no less an announcement) I can’t think of a reason for the increase save one: they are still being manufactured in an economy changed by Covid-related component shortages. I don’t know if the same thing holds true for digital pianos but I suspect it does. (By the way, and completely off-topic, are digital pianos with actual piano sound boards an improvement or a gimmick in terms of sound quality?) Roland feels that they can raise the price of an FR-8x as opposed to waiting for the component shortage to be over, and yet, the FR-8x can be thought of as old technology. On the other hand, Proxima, which advertises its new model as having advanced technology, must wait until the component shortage has passed to ramp up production. Roland is a well-established company with a lot of resources. Proxima is a hopeful start-up. The playing field, if it exists, is far from level. Who will win?

 

[Ben-jammin]

Since there isn’t even a rumor of a new model coming out of Roland (no less an announcement) I can’t think of a reason for the increase save one: they are still being manufactured in an economy changed by Covid-related component shortages.

There are many reasons a company needs to re-evaluate their msrp for a product. Some of them are directly tied to the cost of manufacturing the product but some aren’t.

 

[Mike K]

I guess I should have been clearer, as the (possible sale) value of both electronic and acoustic accordions does not simple gradually decrease over time, but when very old instruments (20-30 years is very old for electronic versus 60-80 years for acoustic) that are still in good working condition start increasing in value again. It is similar to the 66 year old tube radio that was probably worth very little after 20 to 30 years, but as it became a functional antique it goes up in value. Some things degrade indeed, but can often still be replaced. Just like pots, switches and jacks in old electronics can be replaced wax, leathers and if needed also reeds can be replaced and even other mechanical parts like register switch mechanisms are still available, all making it possible to have a fully functional 80-year old accordion. If you can keep a Roland FR8x fully functional for a long time its value will first go down as new and better technology becomes available (but that does not seem to have happened yet) but if you can keep it for long enough it will become "vintage" and later "antique" and that means that if fully functional it becomes very valuable again. I wouldn't be surprised if something comes on the market soon (maybe Proxima if it ever materializes...) and then the value of an used FR8x will plummet, but later it will increase again. In my experience electronics suffers much more from that "sudden dip" in the value than an acoustic accordion.
Jim D just posted that the dealer price of a new FR-8x has recently gone up. This can only mean there is still enough demand for it to not make it highly pressing to develop something new and better. (And that's a shame as the FR-8x in my opinion is still too far from being a viable replacement for an acoustic accordion. The world of digital pianos has seen much more improvement making them more and more viable as replacement for an acoustic piano, but in the accordion world there was essentially no progress in the V-accordion for way too long now.

I have two accoustic accordions....one of which needs some repair work but finding a tech in central VA USA who is skilled is DIFFICULT. looking for recommendations. I also have a digital workstation, Yamaha MOXF-8, circa 2014, but still very powerful instrument. Prices on digital workstations appear to be much less than on digital accordions by a factor of at least 5 I would say. Possibly because of the market being bigger. Have found one for sale for $4000, seemed a decent price. not real close so not sure I want to drive there to investigate further. Been considering getting a digital to replace one of the accoustics.

 

[aemit]

If you already have a decent MIDI workstation, you could consider to (let) modify one of your acoustics with MIDI. That is what I will do. I have never been a fan of Roland, and I think their V-accordions are way overprized. Modifying an existing accordion will cost you a fraction of even a second-hand FR-8x.

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[JerryPH]

I wouldn't be surprised if something comes on the market soon (maybe Proxima if it ever materializes...) and then the value of an used FR8x will plummet...

The Proxima Mia is no comparison to a FR-8x... the Mia is a smaller 96 bass unit and a smaller keyboard, with no sign of a 120 bass full sized accordion even in the works. If it ever was to come out, based on the owner's past track record we are looking at no less than 5-7 years from now. A closer "competitor" to the Proxima Mia is a FR-3X or possibly the FR-4X.

I think that the 8X is safe for a few more years, though IMHO, I do feel it is starting to get outdated, even if it is the best current digital accordion on the market.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Jerry, have you seen the entire promotional video for the Proxima with all of the details? It can run circles around anything Roland produces, IF it ever gets to market?

But seriously, I do hope it’s successful,

 

[JerryPH]

Jerry, have you seen the entire promotional video for the Proxima with all of the details? It can run circles around anything Roland produces, IF it ever gets to market?

I did, and based on the track record, Proxima is right on track to release the MIA (ie: we've all known about it for what, over a year now? No price list, no website and only *1* promo video ever made of it on YouTube!!)... sometime within the next 2-3-ish years... lol
It has a lot of "planned things" that are nice, but a lot of things that are a complete waste of time or are things you may look at once in a lifetime and never use again. I'd consider those things the equivalent of a cell phone's "bloatware"... lol

I hope they do get it out and possibly start working on the 41/120 version, not the "older-man/kid" sized version.

 

[aemit]

The sound demos remind me of cheap Casio synhts of the '80s.

 

[Pipemajor]

Gear4Music in the UK have new Roland Fr8x piano accordions in stock at £4723 and Fr8xbs at £5070.
Come with a 3 year guarantee and free delivery.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

The sound demos remind me of cheap Casio synhts of the '80s.

Please don’t judge the sound of any instrument based on what you hear in YouTube videos. There are too many variables at play.

 

[aemit]

Please don’t judge the sound of any instrument based on what you hear in YouTube videos. There are too many variables at play.

Sorry, but I have the impression that the recording technique is ok in this video, and I listened with good headphones, fair enough to judge the quality of the sounds. To me it sounds bland and cheesy.

 

[Mockie]

Sorry, but I have the impression that the recording technique is ok in this video, and I listened with good headphones, fair enough to judge the quality of the sounds. To me it sounds bland and cheesy.

Regarding improvements on the Roland FR -8X I think if they could make it a few pounds lighter that would good. Electronically it's almost perfect, the sounds are of very high quality.
I'm very happy with mine, still exploring it's capabilities mind you

 

[aemit]

Regarding improvements on the Roland FR -8X I think if they could make it a few pounds lighter that would good. Electronically it's almost perfect, the sounds are of very high quality.
I'm very happy with mine, still exploring it's capabilities mind you

Just to be clear, I was judging the sound quality of the Proxima. I heard some sounds from Roland, and they are much better indeed.