Loose bellows pins.

Dingo40 pid=70840 dateline=1585555020 said:

Hi all!
I have a much loved, but also much worn, 80 years plus 41/120 LMM piano accordion.
Over the decades, the bellows pins have been in and out many times. Currently, with a long bout of low humidity weather as well as that, things are at a stage where air pressure from the bellows whilst playing is enough to begin to slowly push some pins out of their holes
Not yet critical, but what is the thing to do to tighten them in their holes? :huh:

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Dingo,

As far as Im aware, the usual cure is to try and get wider bellows pins and use them. 

Here is a link to a French seller on ebay, and they ship worldwide.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-Nails...hash=item465f3a5c24:m:mNUOQ9rZBtd4WJxq2anP3bg

Youll need to try and measure the diameter (and length) of the existing pins and go for the next diameter size up. This seller offers 2mm, 2.5mm, and 2.6mm, if those are any good for you. Price is for 4 pins, so youll probably want three sets.  

 Cheers,

John W

Dingo40 said:

Hi all!
I have a much loved, but also much worn, 80 years plus 41/120 LMM piano accordion.
Over the decades, the bellows pins have been in and out many times. Currently, with a long bout of low humidity weather as well as that, things are at a stage where air pressure from the bellows whilst playing is enough to begin to slowly push some pins out of their holes
Not yet critical, but what is the thing to do to tighten them in their holes? :huh:

Click to expand...

The "standard" cure is to drill new holes, fill in the old ones, fix the celluloid... but that's a lot of work!
I like the approach of getting just slightly bigger bellow pins as it will be much less work, and you get new shiny pins to boot!

CGM Musical Services seems to do 2mm, 2.5mm and 2.8mm in 15mm or 22mm lengths

Glug said:

CGM Musical Services seems to do 2mm, 2.5mm and 2.8mm in 15mm or 22mm lengths

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I contacted Charlie yesterday to try to get some valves to sort out an old button accordion, but he is closed until further notice.

Dingo40 said:

OK guys,
Thanks for the suggestions: I'll look into them.
At the moment, I'm favouring the oversized pins idea
I may be able to source them locally, or improvise, using cut down bullet-headed nails from the hardware shop ( these nails come in a variety of gauges and look quite similar, if shortened)

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Dingo,

Just make absolutely sure the nails are dead straight before you insert them into the celluloid. Most nails have a bit of "give" in them, and you obviously don't want to make the holes bigger. Also, if you shorten them they are likely to be out of "true" diameter at the cut.

Don't know what bellows pins are actually made of, but they're pretty rigid. They maybe coat them with Viagra!

I thought Id read about this before. Sure enough in 2014 JIM D gave this advice:
In most cases applying small drops of water with an eyedropper to the bellows pin holes in the bellows and accordion case holes will cause the wood to swell and provide a tight fit.
(found here: https://www.accordionists.info/showthread.php?tid=1262&highlight=loose+bellows+pins )
Worth a longer read perhaps - He also cautions against using wax.
What a great forum this is - but I was a bit surprised the post was almost 6 years ago. Why cant I remember why I went upstairs?

dunlustin pid=70858 dateline=1585574954 said:

I thought Id read about this before. Sure enough in 2014 JIM D gave this advice:
In most cases applying small drops of water with an eyedropper to the bellows pin holes in the bellows and accordion case holes will cause the wood to swell and provide a tight fit.
(found here: https://www.accordionists.info/showthread.php?tid=1262&highlight=loose+bellows+pins )
Worth a longer read perhaps - He also cautions against using wax.
What a great forum this is - but I was a bit surprised the post was almost 6 years ago. Why cant I remember why I went upstairs?

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Seems there are several different opinions on this, and I just wish I could remember where I read about the substitution of bellows pins with ones of larger diameter. It would have been a French source Im sure, and the next size pin would typically only be around 0.5mm larger in diameter, or less. It appears to be the case that most professionals favour retention of the original pins, and carry out alterations to the accordion body. Fine if you have the experience and the tools for such a venture.  
Personally Id source one or two bigger pins and see if it worked out. You may only need to replace one or two pins, but I have no real experience of bellows pin replacement, and as they say A little knowledge, etc.  

Here in the UK low humidity is never an issue, and on most accordions Ive owned over the years those pins stay pretty tight. I currently have four accordions, aged 5,30, 60, and 70 years, and the only issue Ive had with bellows pins was with the 30 year old Maugein, when I couldnt get them out! Oddly enough Jim D guided me on that one, but I ended up putting it into a repairer for an overhaul, and they pop in and out more easily now. Dont know what he did to the pins, if anything.  

Good luck, Dingo. I can send you an ebay link to my favourite precision tool, a 10lb hammer, if nothing else fixes the issue. 

I had to use mine the other day to smash up an old shed base. The satisfaction one achieves from diligent use of such a delicate instrument is uplifting. I would consider it a failure if I never destroyed an accordion with a single blow (well maybe two at my age). 

Just another suggestion for consideration, and you might be able to just borrow one from the shop where youre going to buy your nails.

Yes the subject of loose bellows pins came up some years ago. 
It seems it's about time to revisit the problem & cure.
 I was mentored a half century ago by the late repairman,  inventor & importer Emil Baldoni .
At the time Emil demonstrated the method of swelling bellows pin holes.
I've used this method for many years now and it works well on 80 to 90% of the accordions I repair.
The process requires removing all pins and separating the bellows and accordion case. Using an eyedropper apply 2 to 4 drops of water in all bellows & case holes.
Let the water do its work for 15 to 20 minutes and redo it.  This will work in most cases and you might find it difficult to reinsert the pins.
Now the wax cure is temporary and the pins will loosen up again and the water METHOD WILL NOT WORK as the wax seals the wood.
When repining is necessary first REMOVE THE OLD BELLOWS GASKET.
refit the bellows & case and drill for new pins. Replace with new gasket and assemble.
This repair will most likely out live yourself.

Dingo40 said:

The relative humidity here often falls below 10% along with a temperature in the low to middle 40s Centigrade: all the woodwork dries out!

At least, we're not unduly troubled by mould

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Dingo,

Mould is something we occasionally have to cope with right enough. I suppose we get used to living in our respective environments. 

My niece lives in Norway, just below the Arctic Circle, and it's currently -1c with 92% humidity, having been -9c during the night. 

I lived in Bardufoss in Norway, about 300 miles north of the Arctic Circle for a time, and 13c in July was a scorcher. I keep telling her that people in Mo i Rana are softies, but she always manages to send me proof of -30c during the odd night.

Probably need that 10lb hammer to get your bellows pins out there, although it would likely cost you about 200 Australian dollars to buy one. You'd get it delivered on the post bus from Tromso. Never saw an accordion, or had any interest in them, when I was there. 

The world is a vastly different place, depending on where you live.

I thought the cause of this was that when you take em out repeatedly, and you don't put them back where they came from, after a while only the widest pin will still fit. :angel:

Dingo40 pid=70893 dateline=1585641500 said:

John,
Thanks for your entertaining posts: I already have a 10 lb hammer

Jozz,
I agree: frequent removal and replacement of pins would certainly enlarge the pin-holes, even if they were all identical.

Thats why I avoid opening it up as far as possible and leave it strictly to the repairman .  Even so ... 

(The same applies to the bellows gasket!)

An accordion of this vintage would certainly have had the pins removed many times 

The dryness would be an additional complication, I imagine 

Now, I wonder if a turn or two of sticky tape around the shaft of the loose pins would do the trick! :huh:

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Dingo,

What Jozz means is that you are supposed to ensure each pin goes back into its original position, rather than just randomly put them back in. Ive read that in quite a few articles, without really understanding what it meant, but basically I think the gist is that each bellows pin has a unique position, and they shouldnt be moved around. I used to lay mine out in order so that they all went back into the correct aperture, until one day my granddaughter decided to add a whole set to her collection of trinkets, so they went back in where I could get them, and Ive never had any bother since. Mind you none of my boxes has ever been to Oz. 

I doubt whether the pins would go in with sticky tape round them. You might only be talking of taking up a gap of less than 1mm.

With guitars its easy. Any wee gaps and rattles can be corrected with the sort of Loctite (not the blue stuff, which is a glue) that allows you to ease the offending screws back off as and when required. Dont think that would be suitable for an accordion though, but you never know. Somehow, I would doubt it, otherwise somebody would have offered it up by now.

[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]To be honest [/font][font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]I find most aspects of maintenance these days (on anything) is best left to nuclear scientists. I was thinking of buying a triangle, but decided against it, [/font][font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]in case I polished it with the wrong compound and spoiled it. [/font]

A guy came out the other day to fix my central heating boiler, which had developed a leak due to a blown component. He gave me a 5 minute explanation in technical speak of why it had happened and made an excellent job of replacing it with a new one. The explanation involved heat exchangers, pumps, seals, gaskets, and other things Id never heard of. Two or three hours after hed gone I found a slight weep at the central heating return connection at the other side of the boiler. 

He came back the next day and couldnt find the leak. I explained that it would only leak if the central heating was actually on, which it hadnt been. The next technical explanation was Just keep an eye on it and switch the cold feed to the boiler off if you go out! 

Boiler still leaking, virus still spreading, so I might just try and seal the connection with some magic stuff, if I can remember what it is!

Just a thought:
I used Fabri-Tac to seal screws and bolts against air leaks.
It's a very soft glue that comes off easily and will work as a thin gasket.