1930's Settimio Soprani restoration

[Rosie C]

The old 120 bass settimios are quite light. My 120 is lighter than my 80 bass weltmiester. Lots lighter than honer Atlantics etc you soon adapt to in and more air so less work

I did wonder as I don't think it has any registers on it. Of my two Hohners, the one with the extra bass and treble registers is signifcantly heavier.

I forgot to include the link earlier: http://accordioncentre.com/acb/buyi...ts/product/settimio-soprani-120-bass-vintage/

 

[Ikesaccordions]

I have at least one pre-war Settimio.
"Cardinal' is a model name used more recently as well, for some with the Ampliphonic reed blocks.
I just moved and will spend a while unpacking, and I still have to bring a truckload of things from storage in Maryland.
Don't know if it's here or there.
I could restore it, But one issue which would cause extra trouble is that the solder holding the flat folded brass plungers to the bass pistons was not pure silver-bearing but it had unstable lead in the alloy which oxidized over time and might give way.
If you just want something pretty to look at, that is more feasible but at some point, for the right price, I might enjoy the challenge.

 

[Rosie C]

Well, the accordion is in my house. Frustratingly I've not seen it as my partner paid for it for my Christmas present and has hidden it away. All I know is it's arrived safely except for a couple of depressed bass buttons, the treble keys all work, but there is a bass drone from the depressed buttons.

The old 120 bass settimios are quite light. My 120 is lighter than my 80 bass weltmiester. Lots lighter than honer Atlantics etc you soon adapt to in and more air so less work

I look forward to playing it, though it might be a little while. I know that it needs tuning and some of the valves need attention. Also there are the bass buttons to look at now.

If you just want something pretty to look at, that is more feasible but at some point, for the right price, I might enjoy the challenge.

Thanks! In the short term I do want something pretty to look at - it will likely go on a shelf on display in our house. But I've arranged to visit my friendly local accordion professional in January - he'll give me his professional advice on what needs doing and help teach me the skills I'll need to do some of the simpler jobs myself.

 

[Rosie C]

Merry Christmas everyone! Finally the waiting is over...

Obvious issues are three bass buttons dropped, and the treble cover fouling the white keys.

The whole thing is a work of art though. Roll on the restoration!

 

[Tom]

Wow, it’s a project! Love those “black” keys. Good luck Rosie!

 

[Rosie C]

Wow, it’s a project! Love those “black” keys. Good luck Rosie!

Thanks! The keys are gorgeous, it looks like short pieces of striped celluloid overlaid at random.

I can't play it yet - it needs shoulder straps, and to fix the bass buttons which are holding a couple of reeds open. The seller said it needs tuning though.

 

[Tom]

Thanks! The keys are gorgeous, it looks like short pieces of striped celluloid overlaid at random.

I can't play it yet - it needs shoulder straps, and to fix the bass buttons which are holding a couple of reeds open. The seller said it needs tuning though.

Cool, you get to try your hand at some tuning too!

 

[Rosie C]

oh, I think I'll leave that to the experts!

I found it has a right hand palm control bar, which is an unexpected bonus. I'll need to do some repairs to play it and see what effect it has

 

[Rosie C]

I recruited some engineering help today and we had a look at the bass machine. The four depressed buttons were all interconnected, so freeing up one fixed all of them. The mechanism is quite different to my Hohners, and I was impressed that they used aluminium back in the 1930s.

It plays now but is badly out of tune. The treble cover is slightly warped, the keys need levelling and it's missing felt under the front of the keys. But generally it's all very good!

Another thing I noticed is the root and contra buttons sit higher and there's a mechanism that seems to limit how much the valve opens.

 

[Tom]

Cool! So now you have some decisions to make. Are there a limited number of reeds that are drastically out of tune? Could you experiment with tuning these on your own (you can do it!) and have the accordion “playable” until you or someone else does a full tuning? Or is it so hopelessly out of tune that none but a full tuning will suffice?

 

[Rosie C]

It varies - it's a bit hard to play much without shoulder straps, but if I play a G bass root, then a G, B, D arpeggio in the treble then add a G major chord it sounds reasonable. But if I do the same with D major then it sounds bad.

I'm away from home at the moment but when I get home I'll play every note in and out with an electronic tuner and get an idea of how much it needs.

 

[Ikesaccordions]

It varies - it's a bit hard to play much without shoulder straps, but if I play a G bass root, then a G, B, D arpeggio in the treble then add a G major chord it sounds reasonable. But if I do the same with D major then it sounds bad.

I'm away from home at the moment but when I get home I'll play every note in and out with an electronic tuner and get an idea of how much it needs.

First you would need to determine whether the whole accordion is tuned to A440. The electronic tuner is a crude and inaccurate way to check the pitch of a single note. If a reed is off pitch, you need to find out why it is off pitch.
Someone uploaded a video of tuning an accordion reed. The video was completely wrong about what to do. In theory you can change the pitch by that method, but don't try it. Old reeds are a legacy which can't be duplicated if the reed is damaged.

 

[Rosie C]

First you would need to determine whether the whole accordion is tuned to A440.

How would you go about doing that if you don't use an electronic tuner? My thought was to check every note and see what the average variation from A=440 is. I can also make a note of any notes that are wildly out as they may have a more mechanical problem that might be obvious if I look inside.

 

[Rosie C]

A few photos from when we had the covers removed...

bass machine:


Interesting mechanism, each button has a brass 'paddle' which is actually thin folded metal with a thin steel wire passing through the row of paddles:


and there's some kind of mechanism that seems to moderate how far the pallet opens, depending on whether chords are also being pressed:


I love the way the bass cover is worn away from years of playing:


So much decorative work - the edge binding has a gold-like material inlaid:


Treble pallets. The keys are very uneven, but the pallets seem quite level. Strange!

 

[Ikesaccordions]

How would you go about doing that if you don't use an electronic tuner? My thought was to check every note and see what the average variation from A=440 is. I can also make a note of any notes that are wildly out as they may have a more mechanical problem that might be obvious if I look inside.

How to determine the basic pitch, whether A 440 A44 A 445 etc, is to set the equipment at whatever standard and try several notes, provided the valves on all the reed plates are closing properly, and try different notes with the low set "on" until you get to the basic settibg where most of them register "in tune". Air leaking under a warped block. porous reed wax, loose or bent reed valves etc. can have av effect of slightly raising the pitch. Most Italian accordions until very recently were tuned to A 442, but German accrdions are mostly A 440 except some old German button accordions for playing while singing would be tuned to A 438. I have seen antique Italian accordions tuned to A 435, Try the different settings on your equipment testing several different scale notes making sure the low "bassoon" set is "on" as the reading will default to the low octave and the low notes are usually less apt to go off pitch.

 

[Javthedog]

I don't know if this is the box you're looking for.......I was given it as a "scrapper" to take to pieces and learn how it worked.......I've levelled the keys and replaced some of the leathers on the treble side. The club don't want it back and I don't want to keep it............
Here are some pics.....

 

[Rosie C]

I don't know if this is the box you're looking for.......I was given it as a "scrapper" to take to pieces and learn how it worked.......I've levelled the keys and replaced some of the leathers on the treble side. The club don't want it back and I don't want to keep it............
Here are some pics.....

I have a box now, but this one looks to be the same era - it has identical 'fretwork' either side of the bass buttons, and the white-gold-white details around the bellows is also the same. If it's going spare I'd could definitely give it a home.

 

[Rosie C]

Nearly a year later... I have seen the light! Over the last month I've been playing in D♭ and G♭, and I've learned to play scales with the left hand, and I finally understand the benefits of a 120 bass, over the smaller 'folk' instruments I'm fond of. It occured to me that I actually have a 120 bass, albeit in bits, so I have new incentive to get it working! I'd kind of lost enthusiasm as I'd understood how much work was needed - all the reed valves need new leathers, and that likely means removing the reed blocks and re-waxing.

Anyway, some new photos and some questions...

The treble side has three removable reed banks. A previous repairer pencilled 1, 2 and 3 on them. Bank 3 has all 24 white keys. Bank 1 has all the black keys. Each note is represented twice, with a reed block on either side.

Bank 2 has all 41 notes, but only one reed block each. There is a sliding aluminium shutter operated from a palm switch.



Three things I'm curious about...

• Do the doubled up reeds in bank 1 and bank 3 indicate a permanent musette sound?
• Is it possible to draw any conclusions about the reed quality from the photos?
• Do the tuning scratch marks suggest a previous poor tuning?

 

[Rosie C]

Moving on to the bass side...

There are two banks, one larger & one smaller. Both banks double up the notes, so I'm assuming a musette-type sound.

One reed block has been replaced, maybe it will sound OK, but I might look for a spare instrument to take parts from. A bigger problem is the larger reed block is firmly stuck in place. Looking closely, it seems the wax has melted and flowed down to glue it in place

 

[Ben-jammin]

This would be a high low box, where only the low set of reeds on the right hand can be disabled. So if it’s LMM which would most likely it will always have MM played, if it’s tuned mussette it will always have that sound. The left hand reeds should be tuned to a same tuning standard so shouldn’t have a “detuned” set to make it sound mussette. The tuning standard may not be 440. I would say the reeds look to be at least Tipo a mano. There are posts on the forum that show how to identify a mano reeds (am) also called handmade which would be the grade above Tipo a mano (Tam) handfinished. Accordions of that vintage frequently waxed in some of the left hand reed banks.

I am not an expert on the tuning marks. The one on the treble side almost looks scalloped but I think it might just be an optical illusion.

I think it always makes sense to really consider how much it’s worth to invest in a specific instrument (time, effort, and money). I don’t want to imply that I think it’s a bad idea to invest in a prewar instrument if done for the right reasons. If it’s to have a playable instrument you should really ask yourself if it’s going to meet your needs as well as something else that may be available.