When many were reporting problems with the FR7/7x cables on Yahoo Roland accordion forum, Roland USA sent some of the posts to Roland, Italy, and Roland Italy issued an improved version and made it available free at least for the 7x owners. I understand there is no more Roland, Italy per se but I thought we could make a concerted effort to do something about the 7x screen issue. Fortunately, a few days ago I was able to get 3 Roland LCD screens from a friend overseas. They are all reserved for other 7x friends. I spoke with a computer engineer who deals both with hardware and software. He said that it is not easy to manufacture something like that and that it wouldnt be economical. The last time that I spoke with a Roland certified technician I was told that Roland is looking for a contractor. By the way, I was told that the same LCD screen is used for the Roland R09hr wav recorder. https://www.roland.com/us/products/r-09hr/ The recorder is also discontinued. Has it been 10 years or so since the first release of the FR7x? I remember a local Roland dealer saying that companies must supply parts for 10 years by law? I also spoke with an aerospace engineer who works on midi accordions. He did some major work on my accordions. I sent him the 7x schematics to see if what he could come up with in terms of the screen. I am trying to help myself and fellow 7x players. We are in the same boat!
7x LCD Screen
- Thread starter torch
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 440
- Reaction score
- 164
Hello Torch,
I appreciate you spearheading the effort to bring this issue to Roland (or whatever it now is)'s attention. But just a few words of caution that we may be fighting a losing battle.
(1) I don't think there is any law requiring companies to stock/supply parts for any period of time. If a product breaks during the warranty period, the company has the options of (a) refunding your money, (b) repairing the product, or (c) replacing it with a comparable product.
(2) I seriously doubt the FR-7x shares the same LCD screen with the R09-HR. I don't think the FR-7x and the FR-7 use the same LCD screen either. By "the same," I mean they are interchangeable.
(3) The cable is a different issue. It is a "user-replaceable" item. Roland's goodwill stopped at providing the customer with a new improved cable. On the other hand, the work of replacing the LCD screen has to be performed by qualified personnel. This would be a nightmare for a company like Roland. I don't think Roland has any intention to retro-fix the problem.
I've been dealing with a similar issue in my other hobby, photography. I use Pentax (now part of Ricoh) and currently have 3 top of the line (read: expensive, $1000 and up each) zoom lenses: 16-50, 50-135, and 60-250, all feature the so-call "Supersonic Drive Motor" (SDM, advertised as "autofocus system for accurate, quiet focusing performance"). This motor is notorious for failing after only a few years. Pentax became aware of this and improved the SDM in later lenses, but has never acknowledged the design flaw. I converted the 16-50 to screw drive (old but more reliable), the 50-135 seems to be OK. The 60-250 SDM failed, and the shop told me replacement parts were not available from Ricoh. This is not unique to Pentax/Ricoh. Nikon and Canon users have been dealing with similar issues.
A few months ago the LED display (for timer, temperature, and clock) of my double oven went out. I identified the part (about $80 if available) that failed, but replacement part was no longer available. The reason: the company that made the clock movement, a $2 part, was no longer in business. How much did it cost me? $1500 for a new oven. :x
I appreciate you spearheading the effort to bring this issue to Roland (or whatever it now is)'s attention. But just a few words of caution that we may be fighting a losing battle.
(1) I don't think there is any law requiring companies to stock/supply parts for any period of time. If a product breaks during the warranty period, the company has the options of (a) refunding your money, (b) repairing the product, or (c) replacing it with a comparable product.
(2) I seriously doubt the FR-7x shares the same LCD screen with the R09-HR. I don't think the FR-7x and the FR-7 use the same LCD screen either. By "the same," I mean they are interchangeable.
(3) The cable is a different issue. It is a "user-replaceable" item. Roland's goodwill stopped at providing the customer with a new improved cable. On the other hand, the work of replacing the LCD screen has to be performed by qualified personnel. This would be a nightmare for a company like Roland. I don't think Roland has any intention to retro-fix the problem.
I've been dealing with a similar issue in my other hobby, photography. I use Pentax (now part of Ricoh) and currently have 3 top of the line (read: expensive, $1000 and up each) zoom lenses: 16-50, 50-135, and 60-250, all feature the so-call "Supersonic Drive Motor" (SDM, advertised as "autofocus system for accurate, quiet focusing performance"). This motor is notorious for failing after only a few years. Pentax became aware of this and improved the SDM in later lenses, but has never acknowledged the design flaw. I converted the 16-50 to screw drive (old but more reliable), the 50-135 seems to be OK. The 60-250 SDM failed, and the shop told me replacement parts were not available from Ricoh. This is not unique to Pentax/Ricoh. Nikon and Canon users have been dealing with similar issues.
A few months ago the LED display (for timer, temperature, and clock) of my double oven went out. I identified the part (about $80 if available) that failed, but replacement part was no longer available. The reason: the company that made the clock movement, a $2 part, was no longer in business. How much did it cost me? $1500 for a new oven. :x
I also share your other interest of photography, been in it since the mid-70's. Your point is valid, however, using photography is not the best choice of comparison models. An excellent lens in the 50's is an excellent lens in the 70's and is an excellent lens today. My cheapest lens that I own is $1100 and most expensive one is over $7500 (200mm F/2VR II). I shoot with a pair of Nikon D4s ($7700 each). One of my favs is the 105mm F/2dc, it came out in the late 60's and is still one of the best in class lenses for portraiture around. The point is that high end quality lenses are near indestructable, last forever and don't require updates.
Most modern electronics sadly cannot say that. Once higher models come out or the electronics "die", one doesn't usually purchase repair parts (unless they are very low cost, something fairly rare), or look to other manufacturers to recreate parts for discontinued low volume electronics as they usually are then well over priced and it often turns out to be more economical to get the newer "latest and greatest" for only a bit more money than the cost of a complex repair and even if you do, it remains a lower end outdated device that usually is less feature rich than the following model, and that older model will continue to be more sensitive to breaking in higher and higher amounts the older it gets Ten years in the electronics world is an amazingly long run!
Of course in 10 years the new one you get today is right where you were 10 years ago... You cannot win... lol
Most modern electronics sadly cannot say that. Once higher models come out or the electronics "die", one doesn't usually purchase repair parts (unless they are very low cost, something fairly rare), or look to other manufacturers to recreate parts for discontinued low volume electronics as they usually are then well over priced and it often turns out to be more economical to get the newer "latest and greatest" for only a bit more money than the cost of a complex repair and even if you do, it remains a lower end outdated device that usually is less feature rich than the following model, and that older model will continue to be more sensitive to breaking in higher and higher amounts the older it gets Ten years in the electronics world is an amazingly long run!
Of course in 10 years the new one you get today is right where you were 10 years ago... You cannot win... lol
Hello Pentaprism,
I think you are right I am fighting a losing battle.... with tooth and nails, though.
The LCD screen is Part#04899889 LCD MXS8257-A. I double checked with the national distributor or Roland overseas, where my firend bought 3 screens for me. I double checke with them; it is the same part used in the FR7x and their wav recorder. I will check with Roland, US, too.
I was inspired with your post on your FR7/7x FBC7 pedal eliminator mod work. Now my 7x fitted with all the features like yours is very user-friendly.
I think you are right I am fighting a losing battle.... with tooth and nails, though.
The LCD screen is Part#04899889 LCD MXS8257-A. I double checked with the national distributor or Roland overseas, where my firend bought 3 screens for me. I double checke with them; it is the same part used in the FR7x and their wav recorder. I will check with Roland, US, too.
I was inspired with your post on your FR7/7x FBC7 pedal eliminator mod work. Now my 7x fitted with all the features like yours is very user-friendly.
B
Bellows
Guest
I recently discovered the forum when I searched for help withe the FR7-x display. I am interested to learn if there has been any success in locating a replacement display. There must be someone in the world who has some of these in a drawer somewhere, no? I am also interested to know if I can still receive a replacement for my cable, which is still functional.
I am also in the middle of a project to convert a reedless digital accordion to wireless, and have run into a snag. I am looking for a consultant and wonder if your aerospace engineer who works on midi accordions could help. I would appreciate a way to contact him/her. Or any other referrals that might be able to lend a hand with ideas or consulting or even implementation.
I am also in the middle of a project to convert a reedless digital accordion to wireless, and have run into a snag. I am looking for a consultant and wonder if your aerospace engineer who works on midi accordions could help. I would appreciate a way to contact him/her. Or any other referrals that might be able to lend a hand with ideas or consulting or even implementation.
Bellows post_id=55468 time=1518716217 user_id=2741 said:
Well, I am no engineer, but I also believe it is a bit of a waste of time to reinvent the wheel. Reliable wireless MIDI has been around for a good while now and there are great viable solutions for dollar amounts that range from fairly reasonable to quite expensive. The same thing can be said for wireless technologies, in terms of cutting the wires from your accordion to our mixer head unit, etc...
Like anything else, there are low cost options and higher cost options. If you are a paid professional, you take the higher cost options becuase they are more reliable and have greater range. If you are an amateur, you take the lower cost options and live with the limitations (lower range/reliability, etc...).
B
Bellows
Guest
Perhaps I should clarify further. I am not reiinventing midi or wireless. I am using the commercially available MidiJet which has proven very reliable on another Millennium controller. I reverse engineered the working controller and I built a driver and installed it in this second Millennium controller. The driver works correctly when wired directly to the second Millennium. However, when I insert the MidiJet into the path, the controller keyboard does not play. The bass buttons sound correctly, but the keyboard (on another midi channel) produces no sound. I use the same cable to the module whether hard wired directly to my driver, or from the MidiJet receiver to the module.
If i put my driver into the first Millennium, it works correctly, wired or wireless.
On a scope, the signal levels at the input to the module 'look' the same whether wired or wireless. I had a chance to look briefly at the module input with someone's midi logic analyzer, and the instructions arriving at the module on the keyboard channel are gibberish when wireless via MidiJet. MidiJet support says the clock from the controller might need to be suppressed. I don't have access to the micro code...need expert help.
I am in the US.
If i put my driver into the first Millennium, it works correctly, wired or wireless.
On a scope, the signal levels at the input to the module 'look' the same whether wired or wireless. I had a chance to look briefly at the module input with someone's midi logic analyzer, and the instructions arriving at the module on the keyboard channel are gibberish when wireless via MidiJet. MidiJet support says the clock from the controller might need to be suppressed. I don't have access to the micro code...need expert help.
I am in the US.
Absolutely... my apologies.JIM D. post_id=55536 time=1518909341 user_id=63 said:
Keymn
Prolific poster
Nice you found the screens. Here is a site I found many older keyboard parts. They supplied many older Korg keyboard parts when Korg discontinued them. Not sure on Roland parts?
https://www.tubesandmore.com/
https://www.tubesandmore.com/
I have owned a few reedless in the past; Petosa reedless, Ciao, Millennium, and Musictech. There used to be a technician in Mid West that made a small battery pack that would make just about any Italian made reedless a wireless system with various adapters/cables he also made. The last time I had some work done on my Millennium by a different technician in the Los Angeles area, I ran into a similar issue. He figured it out. PM me.Bellows post_id=55526 time=1518892438 user_id=2741 said:
Keymn
Prolific poster
This post response may not pertain to screens. But with my Korg arranger, I was able to install 500gb hard drive that Is standard in any laptop. Hook it up to any windows pc and transfer, add styles, sounds, etc. through simple drag and drop. The dream is to get these accordions/ arranger manufacturers to give in a little and have components easy to find locally or compatible to pc. Probably not going to happen due to economics and sales?
This is very interesting for bk users...I do not have one. But would like someone to give feedback on the usage of this app. Wireless too...Hmmm? Would be nice to see similar app but called VAccordion partner! If the bk-7m screen went dim, can we still control/setup with this app? But Does this work with BK7m?
https://appadvice.com/app/bk-partner/591061937
Presently, I control my Korg arranger through another iPad app wirelessly (mentioned in my other forums). If my Korg screen went dim, I still can operate it through selections on my Songbook+ app. I very seldom look/touch my Korg arranger during performance when it is hooked to my fr4x, as it is all done on iPad. This Songbook+ app does control the VAccordion, which again I stated in my other posts (change registers through the computer interface connection).
How many use the VAccordion screens for reference when performing? As for me, once setup, I just push register buttons! Never look at screen.
This is very interesting for bk users...I do not have one. But would like someone to give feedback on the usage of this app. Wireless too...Hmmm? Would be nice to see similar app but called VAccordion partner! If the bk-7m screen went dim, can we still control/setup with this app? But Does this work with BK7m?
https://appadvice.com/app/bk-partner/591061937
Presently, I control my Korg arranger through another iPad app wirelessly (mentioned in my other forums). If my Korg screen went dim, I still can operate it through selections on my Songbook+ app. I very seldom look/touch my Korg arranger during performance when it is hooked to my fr4x, as it is all done on iPad. This Songbook+ app does control the VAccordion, which again I stated in my other posts (change registers through the computer interface connection).
How many use the VAccordion screens for reference when performing? As for me, once setup, I just push register buttons! Never look at screen.
G
Geronimo
Guest
In my MS-80 arranger I found an Adaptec SCSI (and I think floppy) controller and a SCSI hard disk. That would have been quite longer-lived components than the ST-506 hard disks that would have been customary at that time. Now make no mistake: the organization of that hard disk still sucks but it would be a much better upgrade vector for thumb drives than a floppy disk is (or a ST-506 connection) since with SCSI the disk speed and stepping and storage layout and whatnot is separate from the transfer speeds and interfaces.Keymn post_id=55665 time=1519391479 user_id=2502 said:
History developed differently.
M
mikesaccordion
Guest
This information for Roland FR7x/FR7xb players who has screen problems.
I am electronic design engineer and discovered solution how to replace original damaged screen on replacement one made by good known on market company. New display has the same dimensions and connector, but with own parameters. Before replecemen display's PCB board, located behind display, must to be modified. You can find on yahoo accordion forum more info and pictures from me.
Please email to me for details.
<EMAIL email="mikesaccordion@gmail.com">mikesaccordion@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Regards
I am electronic design engineer and discovered solution how to replace original damaged screen on replacement one made by good known on market company. New display has the same dimensions and connector, but with own parameters. Before replecemen display's PCB board, located behind display, must to be modified. You can find on yahoo accordion forum more info and pictures from me.
Please email to me for details.
<EMAIL email="mikesaccordion@gmail.com">mikesaccordion@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Regards
M
mikesaccordion
Guest
How to fix Roland FR7x screen problem?
Contact me: <EMAIL email="mikesaccordion@gmail.com">mikesaccordion@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Posting screen pictures of my Roland FR7x before (first 2 pictures)and after display's PCB modification and display substitution.
Mike D.
Contact me: <EMAIL email="mikesaccordion@gmail.com">mikesaccordion@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Posting screen pictures of my Roland FR7x before (first 2 pictures)and after display's PCB modification and display substitution.
Mike D.
Attachments
M
mikesaccordion
Guest
Few more pictures of the 7x display after PCB modification andsubstitution.
Mike D
<EMAIL email="mikesaccordion@gmail.com">mikesaccordion@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Regards
Mike D
<EMAIL email="mikesaccordion@gmail.com">mikesaccordion@gmail.com</EMAIL>
Regards
Attachments
Wow, looks as good as new!
Are you a member of the Yahoo Roland V-Accordion group? If not, you should join, there are definitely a few 7X users there that have concerns.
Are you a member of the Yahoo Roland V-Accordion group? If not, you should join, there are definitely a few 7X users there that have concerns.
Someone called Roland US last week or so in regards to the 7x LCD only to hear that Roland has no plans to supply 7x LCD. Last year, I bought 3 screens while traveling overseas. One left for myself, but I bet sooner or later all of us with a 7x will need one. I am glad that someone in Florida? can replace the screen, but still the factory issued screen is will be better without any modification work.JIM D. post_id=55536 time=1518909341 user_id=63 said:
B
Bellows
Guest
mikesaccordion post_id=56652 time=1522432157 user_id=2821 said:
With the onset of symptoms on my FR7X display, and unable to get any kind of reply or satisfaction from Roland regarding a fix for the display, I contacted Mike and was delighted with the result. Mike is friendly, and did the work quickly. And, he genuinely follows up and cares that you are satisfied with his work. He has done the research to obtain a replacement part and engineered the modifications. This is real support for FR7X players - support that you cannot get from Roland. Thank you, Mike.
The original display is easily removed with Mikes online video instructions. Just package it carefully in a small box and send it to him. Mounting the returned modified display is easy as well. And, the appearance in the end is just like the original.
Something else to consider here: My display was far from unusable when I commissioned Mike to do this work. And, I dont use my FR7X frequently. But, if it is inevitable that the original Roland display will eventually fail, then it is better to have a retrofit replacement display from Mike. After all, who would want to take in trade, or purchase used, an FR7X with an original Roland display? At best, the value of such an accordion is hampered. In my humble opinion it is better to have the modifications for the replacement display for which there are parts available, if ever needed, going forward.
- Status
