Accordion for klezmer

[Dingo40]

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do you actually think that the registers in the left hand (see photo attached) show LMM and not MMH?

yes, I believe it shows LMM as MMH would be rather unusual.
I see, Murathan also thinks it's LMM!

 

[xocd]

it is interesting that an LMM accordion has 7 shifts, and each M has a solo tab,
and one would think in this day and age there is an actual reason for this,..
so i am curious if the Spanish preference in tuning and layout has some
bearing on this, or if it is one M in chamber and one out, with both tuned
near unison, so that there would be a flavor difference from each in solo

7 switches is a "universal" machine for three sets of reeds: you get all possible combinations of reeds (except no reeds :0). It might be that it's cheaper to use this setup than a specialized one with fewer shifts.

(In my monster accordion I have an M reed in chamber and one out-of-chamber (dry-tuned). The thing has 15 shifts, which in this case it makes total sense as the M reeds sound different.)

 

[Ventura]

7 switches is a "universal" machine for three sets of reeds: you get all possible combinations of reeds (except no reeds :0). It might be that it's cheaper to use this setup than a specialized one with fewer shifts.

(In my monster accordion I have an M reed in chamber and one out-of-chamber (dry-tuned). The thing has 15 shifts, which in this case it makes total sense as the M reeds sound different.)

the Italian standard for a long long time was
7 shifts for LMH
5 shifts for LMM

the extended shift setups can be for convenience according to some,
but generally there needs to be a legit tuning or chamber difference to
justify the extra hardware, else it is just gilding the Lily and adding weight

i hope you get to hands on inspect it soon

 

[Basil]

Hi there!
I want to play mostly klezmer and musette (I have recently began with the accordion).They are offering me a Damiani with a classical tuning and 2 middle voices+ 1 high for a good prize. Do you think it would be suitable to play that kind of music? Thank you in advance!

If by classical tuning they mean straight (MM are equal) It's OK for klezmer but not so good for musette. I'd try and get a mild musette tuning 12-16 Cents at A 440 which would be good for both. You wouldn't need 4' piccolo reeds if that's what you mean

 

[Alan Sharkis]

In Eastern Europe before WW2, klezmorim played whichever accordion they could afford. After that, those Roma musicians who continued the klezmer tradition continued to play whichever accordion they could afford. Musette or not, chambered or not, PA or CBA, large or small — none of that seemed to matter. Most often, they bought used accordions or played inherited accordions.

 

[Zevy]

In Eastern Europe before WW2, klezmorim played whichever accordion they could afford. After that, those Roma musicians who continued the klezmer tradition continued to play whichever accordion they could afford. Musette or not, chambered or not, PA or CBA, large or small — none of that seemed to matter. Most often, they bought used accordions or played inherited accordions.

@Alan Sharkis I agree with you 100%. I have always stayed away from anything other than straight tuning because I very often play with other musicians and we prefer to sound more in tune with each other.

 

[Pipemajor]

I don't really understand the reasoning behind "straight" tuning as, on all my accordions, I can switch off any M reeds I don't want to use at the time

 

[Basil]

I don't really understand the reasoning behind "straight" tuning as, on all my accordions, I can switch off any M reeds I don't want to use at the time

Two MM reeds straight tuned do not sound same as one. they can drift out of phase and have a more complex sound especially playing chords

 

[Zevy]

I don't really understand the reasoning behind "straight" tuning as, on all my accordions, I can switch off any M reeds I don't want to use at the time

You are correct. However, when I want "full power" - the master switch - I have 4 reeds, all (relatively) in tune. That's a big difference!

 

[Pipemajor]

Two MM reeds straight tuned do not sound same as one. they can drift out of phase and have a more complex sound especially playing chords

So, if they "drift out of phase", they are not perfectly straight tuned, but a very mild musette?

 

[Pipemajor]

You are correct. However, when I want "full power" - the master switch - I have 4 reeds, all (relatively) in tune. That's a big difference!

I think my "full power" on my Borsini LMMM Musette could match yours!

 

[Basil]

So, if they "drift out of phase", they are not perfectly straight tuned, but a very mild musette?

I wouldn't call it 'musette' that suggests a discernible beat of around 5 per second. Phasing would be less than 1/sec

 

[Zevy]

I think my "full power" on my Borsini LMMM Musette could match yours!

You might break the decibel meter, but I am referring to full force, or tutta forza, as it is referred to in musical terms. When I employ the use of four straight tuned reed banks, it really helps! The musette tuned reeds are busy fighting each other and don’t let the sound go forth.

 

[Ventura]

In Eastern Europe before WW2, klezmorim played whichever accordion they could afford.

hey Sharks.. happy new year

i didn't know that.. so all the elite stuff fancy people in suits
spout off about Klezmer is largely their re-imagining history ?
rather than just respecting the simplicity of the origins of the music..

sounds reminiscent of the suits from Milan, who came around on
a Consulate Tour and had a program to steach us all how there really was
no such thing as regional Tarantelle.. that their importance was myth..
really ?
when i knew damn well there was, and is, as i know and can play regional
and authentic Tarantelle' from quite a few regions of Italy, and have seen
many an old woman cry old man shout for joy when they heard the notes
decades later here in America

but they never want the simple paesano to have credit for such
important things..

ciao

ps: in Baltimore that day, i had an accordion in the Van and went
and got it and came back and played those Tarantelle's out on the
street as the guests were leaving

 

[Tom]

hey Sharks.. happy new year

i didn't know that.. so all the elite stuff fancy people in suits
spout off about Klezmer is largely their re-imagining history ?
rather than just respecting the simplicity of the origins of the music..

sounds reminiscent of the suits from Milan, who came around on
a Consulate Tour and had a program to steach us all how there really was
no such thing as regional Tarantelle.. that their importance was myth..
really ?
when i knew damn well there was, and is, as i know and can play regional
and authentic Tarantelle' from quite a few regions of Italy, and have seen
many an old woman cry old man shout for joy when they heard the notes
decades later here in America

but they never want the simple paesano to have credit for such
important things..

ciao

ps: in Baltimore that day, i had an accordion in the Van and went
and got it and came back and played those Tarantelle's out on the
street as the guests were leaving

Mario Carbone has 18 tarantelle in one collection alone, from all over Italy. I didn’t check them all.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

hey Sharks.. happy new year

i didn't know that.. so all the elite stuff fancy people in suits
spout off about Klezmer is largely their re-imagining history ?
rather than just respecting the simplicity of the origins of the music..

sounds reminiscent of the suits from Milan, who came around on
a Consulate Tour and had a program to steach us all how there really was
no such thing as regional Tarantelle.. that their importance was myth..
really ?
when i knew damn well there was, and is, as i know and can play regional
and authentic Tarantelle' from quite a few regions of Italy, and have seen
many an old woman cry old man shout for joy when they heard the notes
decades later here in America

but they never want the simple paesano to have credit for such
important things..

ciao

ps: in Baltimore that day, i had an accordion in the Van and went
and got it and came back and played those Tarantelle's out on the
street as the guests were leaving

What many people who first heard klezmer music in the revival of the 70s and on was that the music was never intended to be concert music. Indeed, it was dance music, played mostly for weddings by musicians who travelled within a set district and often were members of one faamiky. They played mostly strings. Brass didn’t enter the scene until the late nineteenth century. Clarinets, often recognized as the lead instrument, likewise arrived that late and accordions even later.
I could write another paragraph about percussion in the music, but that’s for another time.

 

[OuijaBoard]

The classical-ization or fusion with "art music" of dance-derived folk music has mixed results, and is a phenom not limited to klezmer. Take tango, for instance. Some of those results are interesting--With klezmer, see, for example John Zorn or the Klezmatics.

Having said that, many dance-based folk genres now get performed and recorded in old-school style, but for listening contexts without dancing going on, but are still rendered with old-school authenticity, and lovers of those genres buy recordings and go to performances even without dancing.

That's not to say that all dance-based folk music has zero classical or jazz in its DNA. Some klezmorim were indeed classically trained on violin, say. There is also jazz in klezmer. Traditional Scottish dance music has a strain of classical in one wing of its heritage, I think from the northeast rather than the wilds of the Highlands or Shetland or Nova Scotia. But it's primarily dance-derived folk music.

 

[Dingo40]

 

[Alan Sharkis]

The classical-ization or fusion with "art music" of dance-derived folk music has mixed results, and is a phenom not limited to klezmer. Take tango, for instance. Some of those results are interesting--With klezmer, see, for example John Zorn or the Klezmatics.

Having said that, many dance-based folk genres now get performed and recorded in old-school style, but for listening contexts without dancing going on, but are still rendered with old-school authenticity, and lovers of those genres buy recordings and go to performances even without dancing.

That's not to say that all dance-based folk music has zero classical or jazz in its DNA. Some klezmorim were indeed classically trained on violin, say. There is also jazz in klezmer. Traditional Scottish dance music has a strain of classical in one wing of its heritage, I think from the northeast rather than the wilds of the Highlands or Shetland or Nova Scotia. But it's primarily dance-derived folk music.

I agree.

 

[cat]

I play dance music forms mostly, on accordions. So I can get by with a smaller accordion. My 80 bass scandalli is heavy, so I got a 60 bass velty. I like it for klezmer, balkan, all that.