Advice please for accordion diagnosis/repair

[jeff]

Hello,

First let me thank all who participate and make this forum what it is. Your help is very much appreciated. Please forgive my ignorance as I am new to this particular instrument.

I am a seasoned musician who recently bought a used Morelli Accordion for my 13-year old to begin playing. He plays the baritone and piano and was very excited to begin learning this new and wonderful instrument.

While the Morelli is beautiful, it arrived with a possible problem. When opening and closing the bellows, there is a constant drone whether or not any keys are being played. It is a G note. I took the accordion apart and made sure all the reed leather pieces were intact, which they were; none were peeling or curling beyond acceptable range. I made sure all the keys and bass buttons work as they should. I removed and inspected all of the reed blocks. Everything seems to be mechanically sound. Yet the accordion still drones a G note at all times.

If anyone could speak into this problem I would very much appreciate it. I am fairly handy and if it is a simple mechanical fix I feel confident I can perform whatever is needed to eliminate this drone. But if this is indicative of a flawed instrument I am going to return it for a refund.

Please advise, and thanks in advance.

Jeff

 

[Soulsaver]

Hi Jeff & welcome.
Was it posted/shipped to you?
It won't be the leathers or the blocks, it's the relevant pallet and may be a simple fix.
Is it treble or bass side?
If it's the treble side, take the grill off, which is usually 2 screws. Identify the pallet that is leaking and see if it needs/you can adjust its position to ensure it covers the apertures. Check that the pallet felt & leather is a) there; b) not as thin as paper or deformed; c) nothings holding it open, wood shaving etc. If OK, just positioning it accurately and allowing it to flick back a couple of times can resolve the issue if you're lucky. If not you may have to adjust the rod from the key to get a good seal.
If it's the bass side, come back - that could be a more difficult proposition.

 

[jeff]

Hi Jeff & welcome.
Was it posted/shipped to you?
It wont be the leathers or the blocks, its the relevant pallet and may be a simple fix.
Is it treble or bass side?
If its the treble side, take the grill off, which is usually 2 screws. Identify the pallet that is leaking and see if it needs/you can adjust its position to ensure it covers the apertures. Check that the pallet felt & leather is a) there; b) not as thin as paper or deformed; c) nothings holding it open, wood shaving etc. If OK, just positioning it accurately and allowing it to flick back a couple of times can resolve the issue if youre lucky. If not you may have to adjust the rod from the key to get a good seal.
If its the bass side, come back - that could be a more difficult proposition.

I very much appreciate the quick reply.

It was shipped. Supposedly it was working fine but obviously not. I did not mention that 10 of the leather straps were missing. I covered them with the plastic temporarily just to make sure that was not the cause of the sound.

I believe the sound is from the bass side. I will open both sides up again and re-check that everywhere is getting a good seal.

I am correct in thinking that there should be no sound when the bellows are opened and closed, unless a bass button or piano key is played, right?

 

[JIM D.]

Sounds like a bass pallet that is not sealing. Not uncommon with a used China Box. Remove the bass reed blocks and note their position as they can be put back reversed. Remove the 2 tabs holding in the bass machine and remove. Then check out the pallet for the note G . It very possible the leather had become loose or has fallen off.

 

[JerryPH]

I did not mention that 10 of the leather straps were missing.

When you say leather straps, are you meaning the leathers that seal off the reed valves? If yes, then either the accordion was jostled and shaken during transport enough to damage the reeds in the reed blocks (if on the bass side, there is something that is called bass blocking that should be done to protect against damage), or it possibly could have been shipped like that, in a damaged state.

A little additional info may help here. Did you purchase it from a reliable dealer with a warranty and where are you located vs where the accordion was shipped from?

 

[jeff]

Sounds like a bass pallet that is not sealing. Not uncommon with a used China Box. Remove the bass reed blocks and note their position as they can be put back reversed. Remove the 2 tabs holding in the bass machine and remove. Then check out the pallet for the note G . It very possible the leather had become loose or has fallen off.

Thank you Jim. I did as you said, all of the pallets and leather seem to be intact. Here is a picture of the area in question along with a few other pictures that might reveal something. Any more advice is very much appreciated.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/greentrees2/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsdl827z9o.jpeg[/img][/url]

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/greentrees2/IMG_3896_zpsc2kvmpn5.jpg[/img][/url]

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/greentrees2/IMG_3897_zpsxykde97f.jpg[/img][/url]

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/greentrees2/IMG_3898_zpsnmsfd0ex.jpg[/img][/url]

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/greentrees2/IMG_3899_zpsrtub6r4o.jpg[/img][/url]

 

[jeff]

I did not mention that 10 of the leather straps were missing.

When you say leather straps, are you meaning the leathers that seal off the reed valves? If yes, then either the accordion was jostled and shaken during transport enough to damage the reeds in the reed blocks (if on the bass side, there is something that is called bass blocking that should be done to protect against damage), or it possibly could have been shipped like that, in a damaged state.

A little additional info may help here. Did you purchase it from a reliable dealer with a warranty and where are you located vs where the accordion was shipped from?[/quote]

Thank you Jerry.

Yes, by leather straps I mean the pieces that can be replaced when they begin to hang open. It was very well packed with styrofoam and bubble wrap such that it could not move around. I bought it from an individual for $212 shipped. My sense was that it was a hand-me-down and the person was trying to get rid of it for whatever price. I was hoping that I could have a good used instrument but perhaps I was wrong. I admit full ignorance here and this was not the wisest move on my part. It was shipped just a few states over in the US. The good news is I have eBay Buyer Protection so I can get a refund if I choose. But being handy I am hoping it is a simple fix.

Again I realize you get what you pay for but I was hoping for a diamond in the rough. I am a guitarist and pride myself in my American made Telecaster and my $4000 Larrivee acoustic! This was just a quick decision and I was hoping to not spend a fortune on an accordion, but I may have made a poor choice.

Please continue to advise, the assistance is very encouraging!

Jeff

 

[JerryPH]

If it indeed is the palette that is out of position, the fix is fairly easy on the treble side (as you can tell), but on the bass side, often one has to partially (or sometimes completely) disassemble the bass machine, and this is not something that someone who is just "handy" can normally successfully tackle, the potential for major issues could turn your $212 purchase in to a several hundred dollar repair bill if not done properly.

First, one has to be sure to localize the issue to either the left or right side, and then next level decisions will follow.

As someone that not too long ago had to face a similar decision, the best advice I can offer is to be very honest about your skill level to tackle the job and being able to complete it successfully. It may well be something that you can do... or you could fall into the trap that someone else fell in to, where they tried for weeks to fix it, and ended up spending a lot of money to not only fix the initial issue, but all the new issues they introduced.

The reeds with missing leathers is disconcerting, and not a good sign right there. Though not hard to address, it points to the fact that there potentially may be more wrong with the accordion.

In my case, the issue turned out to be quite a serious repair, one that I could never have done, and I am handy enough to do things like swap engine camshafts or take apart an automatic transmission, repair it and put it back in the car and function properly. As silly as it may sound, I would have been hard pressed to work on my accordion to address the issues I had.

 

[JIM D.]

I still feel you have a bass pallet problem. With the bass reed blocks removed and the bass machine removed and in a dark room pass a bright light around the reed block side and look for a glowing pallet in the valve side of the bass. You also do this with the bass machine installed as a mis-aligned bass machine can sometimes hold a pallet slightly open. You may also try this on the treble side pallets using the same bright light procedure.

 

[jeff]

If it indeed is the palette that is out of position, the fix is fairly easy on the treble side (as you can tell), but on the bass side, often one has to partially (or sometimes completely) disassemble the bass machine, and this is not something that someone who is just handy can normally successfully tackle, the potential for major issues could turn your $212 purchase in to a several hundred dollar repair bill if not done properly.

First, one has to be sure to localize the issue to either the left or right side, and then next level decisions will follow.

As someone that not too long ago had to face a similar decision, the best advice I can offer is to be very honest about your skill level to tackle the job and being able to complete it successfully. It may well be something that you can do... or you could fall into the trap that someone else fell in to, where they tried for weeks to fix it, and ended up spending a lot of money to not only fix the initial issue, but all the new issues they introduced.

The reeds with missing leathers is disconcerting, and not a good sign right there. Though not hard to address, it points to the fact that there potentially may be more wrong with the accordion.

In my case, the issue turned out to be quite a serious repair, one that I could never have done, and I am handy enough to do things like swap engine camshafts or take apart an automatic transmission, repair it and put it back in the car and function properly. As silly as it may sound, I would have been hard pressed to work on my accordion to address the issues I had.

Yes I agree, I am handy and have built/fixed many things in my life, some of them complex, but that does not mean I am fit to repair this accordion. Im here asking for help so that I get just far enough in my attempt at repair to know when to stop and get my money back if I cant go any further with my skill level.

 

[jeff]

I still feel you have a bass pallet problem. With the bass reed blocks removed and the bass machine removed and in a dark room pass a bright light around the reed block side and look for a glowing pallet in the valve side of the bass. You also do this with the bass machine installed as a mis-aligned bass machine can sometimes hold a pallet slightly open. You may also try this on the treble side pallets using the same bright light procedure.

Jim,

Thank you again good sir. I did as you suggested and one of the bass pallets is letting in a bit of light, but not much. Could this be the issue? Would a simple diagnosis consist of temporarily attaching a larger piece of felt to cover the hole and see if the drone goes away? Doesnt seem like such a small hole could cause all that drone, but maybe it could.

Ill take the other side apart tomorrow and try the same flashlight trick. Its late and I have to get up early. But Ill report back once I examine that side as you suggest.

Thanks again and please keep the ideas coming, this is very helpful.

 

[JIM D.]

"Any light you see is a leak !!"
The leak may seem small but bellows pressure will increase it.
And by the way, the leaking pad is over the G note, right ?? :tup:

 

[debra]

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/greentrees2/IMG_3899_zpsrtub6r4o.jpg[/img][/url]

On this image you can clearly see that the 7th row from the left has a lever hanging down. (Likewise on the 7th from the right.) This indicates a spring holding that in place (up) may have come loose.
There should be a spot where you can see 12 springs holding each of the 12 levers up. Its either way off to the left or right (not visible in the picture).
The pallet for the G may be closed when gravity does its job but when you hold the bass side upside down you then see that nothing is keeping it closed.

As for the missing leathers, Im not seeing them in any of the pictures. If you refer to the higher notes that do not have leathers, they are not supposed to! As of the high C the M reeds no longer have leathers on almost any accordion.

 

[JerryPH]

I was going to say the same thing too, but then I looked at pics of my Morino, Paul, and though it wasn't leathers, there were plastic/mylar/some kind of valves that covered even my highest piccolo reeds. It's logical, because you don't want air coming in through the wrong direction, no?

 

[debra]

I was going to say the same thing too, but then I looked at pics of my Morino, Paul, and though it wasnt leathers, there were plastic/mylar/some kind of valves that covered even my highest piccolo reeds. Its logical, because you dont want air coming in through the wrong direction, no?

That is unusual and certainly not original. Accordions normally do not have valves over the highest (smallest) reeds. The air coming through the wrong direction is helpful to make the reeds start. Normally all notes starting from C6 no longer have valves. I have a small 40-bass Crucianelli and the 27 key keyboard has the C6 as the highest note and sure enough it had no valve. I added one while completely revising the instrument. It isnt critical, you can go higher than C6 with valves, but certainly not up to the C8 piccolo reed on the highest C on the Morino VI. The notes will have difficulty to start. (And in addition to that I have not yet seen any supplier of valves that small either.)
Not having valves indeed wastes some air and that creates an audible hiss. Yet it is common practice to omit valves on the notes above B5.

 

[JerryPH]

Thanks Paul. I am certainly learning a lot in the last couple of days.

 

[jeff]

Any light you see is a leak !!
The leak may seem small but bellows pressure will increase it.
And by the way, the leaking pad is over the G note, right ?? :tup:

Jim,

I actually noticed another one that seemed to be leaking, without the flashlight trick....take a look at the picture below. It is toward the center, you can see in the picture it is slightly open. I removed the entire bass reed block that has the one pictured below, reassembled it minus that block, and the drone is gone. So this is a great step forward. My son is happily playing the accordion minus the block as we speak, which seems to (forgive my ignorance, I am a guitarist) play just fine, only some of the bass buttons produce no sound, as expected.

Now, my next question is, where do I go from here? Assuming the problem/cause of my drone is the leak pictured below, what is the next step?

Debra - you mentioned a spring possibly being loose.....I checked all of them and everything seems to be intact and working properly. Yet your gravity theory makes perfect sense. I dont understand enough about what you said about the 7th lever from the left hanging down, but I think that does correspond to the opening in my picture below as it was right in the center.

Please advise.....and thank you again VERY MUCH, I thought all was lost but the instrument is now playing beautifully, if not a bit crippled, but I am very confident that we have diagnosed the problem and that a repair could be on the way. So THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

:b

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/greentrees2/Mobile Uploads/image_zps8xlmuieg.jpeg[/img][/url]

 

[JIM D.]

Well I've serviced China boxes for 15 years now for a dealer that at one time sold them. The bass machines on these boxes are made of a mild tin and are easily misaligned. A novice unfamiliar with repairing and aligning these bass machines will likely cause more alignment problems. O.K back to your dilemma - - this might sound to simple, but there is a solution that a novice can do for these pads not sealing. You will need to place another thin layer of leather under these pallets. Now I know you don't have repair leathers but you can cut squares from a piece of chamois - apply white glue to one side and lift the pallet and insert it underneath the pallet and let the spring tension hold it in place. After 1 hour the new pad will be dry and conform to the bass plate and form a proper seal. In many cases this has to be done as with these China boxes the inferior wood quality used will in time warp with use and humidity changes.

 

[Soulsaver]

What Debra means by 2 levers hanging down...