Already looking for my next accordion!

[Rosie C]

Incredibly, it's less than a fortnight since I bought a cheap Scarlatti 12 bass piano accordion. I chose it mainly to find out if I liked the instrument before committing to a larger purchase, and it was cheaper than rental. But already I love it, but I'm finding the 12 bass buttons limiting and I'm thinking about an upgrade.

I'll share my thoughts and criteria, then maybe others will be able to suggest instruments, or options?

• I play for a Morris side. The tunes are all in G, D or E minor. Some have an Em or Bm chord. I can get by the occasional minor chord with a similar major chord (2 out of 3 ain't bad, right?), but the tunes in the key of Em I'm having to play on a different instrument
• The Morris dancers say my Scarlatti is too quiet unamplified, so I need either a louder accordion, or something I can "mic up"
• I play 'guitar' in a folk band and we have some Christmas shows booked - Christmas carols with audience participation. It would be good to include accordion, but there's a fair few 7, minor and dim chords
• Some people I play jazz with are put together an oompa band each Oktoberfest season. I doubt I'll be ready for this year, but they do it each year. The other instruments include Eb tuba, Bb clarinet, etc. so they'll be playing in flat keys.
• I have back problems from an old injury, so a 120 instrument will be too heavy. My little Scarletti is about 3.5kg and isn't a problem for me
• I want a decent instrument that will last me 10-20 years
• My budget is around £600-800

I rejected the Hohner Bravo II 48 as I think I'll find the 8x6 bass will limit the keys I can play in - ruling out playing with the oompha band. Also it's not really any lighter than the 60.

I quite like the look of the Hohner Bravo II 60. Only 5.2kg. The downsides seem to be: it doesn't do dimished chords, the 26 treble keys might be limiting, and I haven't found any secondhand anywhere.

The Hohner Bravo III 72 ticks all the boxes musically. But it's 7.4kg which may be too heavy. But then it's in a different league - more treble keys, more registers. Happily, "Accordion Lounge" have a second hand one in stock and they're only a couple of hours drive from me, so that seems worth a little drive to try it out.

Anyway, that's my musings. If anyone has any suggestions for other makes or models to consider that would be appreciated.

 

[JerryPH]

I think you are doing well and seeing models that may work for you.

The only thing that I will mention that I think others will support, is that if you are getting a newer Hohner Bravo, that there is a good chance that it is a Chinese made model. I've had a chance to see and briefly play a brand new Bravo III and was really not impressed.

That said, purchasing from a retailer can make a difference if they have gone through the accordion and making sure everything works and is in tune before offering it for sale. That may be one of the questions you ask before purchasing, especially since it is a used model.

 

[Ventura]

good Morning Rosie,

quick question.. by chance do you have small hands slim fingers ?

back when Accordion schools were in full swing, they made
3 sizes of Piano Accordions for the American market

the smallest of these have about a 16" keyboard, and are usually
120 bass (there are a few Hohners in this size.. occasionally have popped up here
labeled Student ll and such.. i have one and they are tight, good boxes)
you can also find a few of the flapper shift Pancordion/Crucianelli's in this smallest size

these are usually plenty loud and bold sounding and decently built
and of course can be played in ANY key easily and were the lightest weight
available in a full 41 key/120 bass

old Blue and Cream Scandalli's in the next size, often called Womans size,
are also quite lightweight as they used a lot of Aluminum instead of Wood,
they sound bold and play well but sometimes need a bit of refurbishing
which we can explain if you do find one. There are many other 3/4
size accordions out there, some are still kind of fat and weighty, but
some are nice and trim and lightweight

if you are patient and keep your eyes open, might get lucky with a used, lightweight,
smaller boxes that may suit you well and for a long time

sadly, there is not enough "market" for manufacturers to still offer
smaller keyed accordions as they once did

one tall friend who plays for English and Scottish dance here in the States
has gotten herself a sort of Shillelagh stick just the right length and we
fit a bit of a cup under her Treble section which nestles the head of the stick,
and she stands and plays for hours balancing some of the weight on the Shillelagh

good luck to you.. i hope all your accordion ambitions come to life for you !

 

[NickC]

I am not too familiar with Morris. Is that traditionally played on a melodeon? That might be a good option to explore and they are much lighter than piano accordions. Although, not the best choice for Oktoberfest and Christmas music, so I guess it would depend on how much you will be playing each genre. I'm kind of torn here, because I like to approach a style as authentically as possible, but I also think it's great that you want to be versatile with the accordion. So, I think it depends on how passionate you are about Morris. What instruments are most people playing?

 

[Rosie C]

I am not too familiar with Morris. Is that traditionally played on a melodeon? That might be a good option to explore and they are much lighter than piano accordions. Although, not the best choice for Oktoberfest and Christmas music, so I guess it would depend on how much you will be playing each genre. I'm kind of torn here, because I like to approach a style as authentically as possible, but I also think it's great that you want to be versatile with the accordion. So, I think it depends on how passionate you are about Morris. What instruments are most people playing?

You're correct that it's usually played on melodeon. I tried that briefly but I found it too limiting - both in the range of keys it could play (G, D, Em) and the double action. It seemed (to me at least) it was going to take longer to learn than PA, and be more limited in what it could play. Previously the band was lead by melodeon, but currently it's lead by a guy on mandolin, me on treble recorder and one or two drummers.

 

[Rosie C]

quick question.. by chance do you have small hands slim fingers ?

...

one tall friend who plays for English and Scottish dance here in the States
has gotten herself a sort of Shillelagh stick just the right length and we
fit a bit of a cup under her Treble section which nestles the head of the stick,
and she stands and plays for hours balancing some of the weight on the Shillelagh

good luck to you.. i hope all your accordion ambitions come to life for you !

Thank you!

No, my fingers are short and stubby and I'm fairly tall. My main instrument over the last few years has been double bass. I do like the idea of the stick though! Especially as I already have a stick with jingles on it for beating time, so I could fashion something that's dual purpose!

Thanks too for the thoughts about smaller keyboards. I play piano too, I'm not sure it's relevant but maybe I need to keep to something with a similar size key spacing?

 

[Rosie C]

I think you are doing well and seeing models that may work for you.

The only thing that I will mention that I think others will support, is that if you are getting a newer Hohner Bravo, that there is a good chance that it is a Chinese made model. I've had a chance to see and briefly play a brand new Bravo III and was really not impressed.

That said, purchasing from a retailer can make a difference if they have gone through the accordion and making sure everything works and is in tune before offering it for sale. That may be one of the questions you ask before purchasing, especially since it is a used model.

That's a good point, thanks. An older "made in Germany" Hohner would be good. I've seen some "Student 72" instruments on eBay, which look like they might suit, but I wouldn't really know what to look for if buying privately.

 

[TomBR]

A friend of mine has a bog standard Hohner 72 bass piano accordion, middle, middle and low reeds on the right hand side. It was quite old when he got it, he plays it loud and proud and it has had virtually no maintenance.
A vote for older Hohners from me!

 

[vivdunstan]

I'm a long term 72 bass piano accordion player. It gives me all the chords on the bass side, albeit rarely with a bit of jumping. Significantly though for your needs it does B chords, whereas a 48 bass while lighter (and I have one) doesn't. I'd recommend a 72 bass one though suggest you look wider for secondhand models.

For example the Accordion Shop in Rochdale and Sunningdale (near Windsor - UK) regularly sells Hohner Arietta 72 bass models that they say are ideal for Morris musicians. It's lighter than the one you're considering. See https://theaccordionshop.co.uk/accordions/hohner-arietta-72-bass-accordion/

Also worth checking is the stock of Allodi Accordions in London. See http://www.accordions.co.uk

Both sell by mail order as well as on the spot, though it would obviously be better if possible to try out.

But I do think you're better getting a good secondhand model than a new not so well made one, given your budget. And definitely aim for 72 bass.

Good luck!

 

[JKJ]

Rosie C,

If you have a good accordion repair/technician in your area you might ask them. The guy here told me of a couple of used and used by practically new accordions for sale in the area. Just like going through a dealer as JerryPH mentioned it seems to me the advantage of recommendations by a repair person (especially one who plays a lot and well!) is they would steer you away from instruments with problems and limitations. And you could play before you buy. Ebay sounds risky.

PS, I'm enjoying your adventure through your posts. I also play (or have played) some of the instruments you've mentioned, including the double base - that was in a college country dancers group in Kentucky a half century ago! I'm brand new to accordion but play piano, guitar, french horn, and dabble with some others.

 

[Rosie C]

Rosie C,

If you have a good accordion repair/technician in your area you might ask them. The guy here told me of a couple of used and used by practically new accordions for sale in the area. Just like going through a dealer as JerryPH mentioned it seems to me the advantage of recommendations by a repair person (especially one who plays a lot and well!) is they would steer you away from instruments with problems and limitations. And you could play before you buy. Ebay sounds risky.

PS, I'm enjoying your adventure through your posts. I also play (or have played) some of the instruments you've mentioned, including the double base - that was in a college country dancers group in Kentucky a half century ago! I'm brand new to accordion but play piano, guitar, french horn, and dabble with some others.

I don't know of anyone local to me, but if I drive two hours then there are several possibilities. Ebay does feel very risky, even if I collect I can't really assess it myself.

I definitely "dabble", in a good way. I played bass guitar in a big band, but moved on to double bass. Right now I'm learning the piano parts instead as a few years on bass and I've got a bit bored. I play guitar-bodied mandocello and octave-mandolin. I sing too. Possibly the instrument I'm most accomplished on is recorder - I've been playing that since the 1970s, it does have a depressingly poor reputation, though I've spread a bit of positivity using it for Morris tunes.

 

[Ventura]

Thank you!
I play piano too, I'm not sure it's relevant but maybe I need to keep to something with a similar size key spacing?

that is probably correct, as they teach not to look down when you play
so students develop muscle and position memory which is better i guess
but
people like me who look down a lot seem to have no or little problem
with different sized keyboards and keys.. pre-war accordions have the
slimmest sharps and flats often longer too.. i play them all with abandon
(and not TOO many mistakes ! )

i guess you would have to try a few odd sizes just to see how they feel..

and Yes, eBay or craigslist or now Facebook market ? you always want to stay
within driving distance and sellers who will let you see, feel, and buy in person..
but as you say would you know how to test and evluate it ?

that is another subject and you could learn how from past posts and
more discussion, we have often helped newbies with this same problem..

 

[Dingo40]

but I'm finding the 12 bass buttons limiting and I'm thinking about an upgrade.

A couple of thoughts:
•Don't junk your 12 bass just yet, there's several YouTube videos to show you how to finangle minor chords out of a 12 bass.
For example, see here:

•A number of folk/trad accordionists find an 80 bass gives them all they require
See here:

And here:

They come in standard and three quarter (ladies' sizes) in several makes and models, including Hohner and Excelsior and many others)
Good luck!

 

[saundersbp]

For example the Accordion Shop in Rochdale and Sunningdale (near Windsor - UK) regularly sells Hohner Arietta 72 bass models that they say are ideal for Morris musicians. It's lighter than the one you're considering. See https://theaccordionshop.co.uk/accordions/hohner-arietta-72-bass-accordion/

Also worth checking is the stock of Allodi Accordions in London. See http://www.accordions.co.uk

I'd second the suggestion for a lovely second hand Hohner Arietta. I had two of these (both off ebay) that I gave away. Great sound, super light, and built like a battleship! I paid around £200 for them.

 

[JKJ]

I don't know of anyone local to me, but if I drive two hours then there are several possibilities. Ebay does feel very risky, even if I collect I can't really assess it myself.

A book that helped me might be useful: Piano Accordion (Owner's Manual and Buyer's Guide) by George Bachich.
You can get it through the Accordion Revival web site.

PIANO ACCORDION OWNER'S MANUAL AND BUYER'S GUIDE

Check out http://accordionrevival.com!

accordionrevival.com

Or perhaps you could find it locally, maybe through an accordion shop?

It has some useful info about assessing an instrument.
Chapter 20, "What should I buy?"
Chapter 21, "Where should I look?"
Chapter 22, "How can I determine it's condition?"
Chapter 23, "How much should I pay?"
These chapters are fairly short but have, I think, useful information.

As mentioned, I'm a rank 1st-time beginner - acquired my accordion from the estate of my wife's relative. It had been brought from Germany at some unknown time, perhaps the '50s or '60s, passed to another relative, stored indoors the entire time. As far as we could tell no one ever played it or even took it out of the case over the decades. From my reading, decades of storage and non-use can destroy an accordion - a hot attic can melt the wax, too damp and the reeds can rust and things can get moldy, moths can get in and eat the felt, etc.

Fortunately neither relative had an attic or basement so it was always stored in a comfortable and dry place indoors.
I immediately took it to a reputable repairman. Having seen it all (he was older than me, even!) he was prepared for the worst. The first thing he did to evaluate it was unsnap the bellows straps and let the bellows open under weight alone to test for air leaks. Then he played all the keys and buttons in all the registers.

Next he removed the pins and removed the treble and bass sections from the bellows and visually inspected for rusty reeds, curled leathers, etc. He removed the reed blocks and looked inside as well as sound many of them on his test bellows. He found no significant air leaks, no rust, no mold, and no bugs! He looked so relieved - all it needed was some minor adjustments! He said he's seen so many old accordions in terrible shape and although they could be repaired, the repair cost would likely be many times the value of the instrument. He said the problem with ebay and even individual local sales is the seller, even if honest, often knows nothing about accordions and may have unrealistic expectations about the value.

You might not be able to do all that, but if you find one locally at least you can put your hands on it, check for air leaks, and test the function and sound. You also check if it smells musty!

Good luck with your search! Oh, the Accordion Revival site was a recommendation from this forum. I think I've studied every page, - what an amazing wealth of information. https://accordionrevival.com/

...Possibly the instrument I'm most accomplished on is recorder - I've been playing that since the 1970s, it does have a depressingly poor reputation, though I've spread a bit of positivity using it for Morris tunes.

That reminded me. During my stint playing the string bass with Berea College Country Dancers in the 70's they did a lot of Morris dances, English, Scottish, Danish, Appalachian dances and more. I don't remember much of the details after 50 years but I do remember some lively dances with sticks and swords! It was all new to me and fascinating to watch, play, and tour through Kentucky and surrounding states. The music was piano, recorder, "fiddle", guitar, and bass. (The director asked me to play the bass since they couldn't find anyone - I'd never touched one but learned during the practice sessions, pretty simple of course for that music.)

JKJ

 

[OuijaBoard]

If the OP is saying the typical LMM 34\72 weight might be too heavy, this leaves MM as the alternative. I can't believe diminished chords are needed for Morris or flat-key oompah. I'd go with the 60 bass Bravo ii, unless any of the folk genres you list have a significant percentage of tunes that spend much time below the "B" below middle C. If they do, a 2-voice 30 or 34 key MM could be a tad lighter than same in LMM config. A 72-bass of course would have your dim chords too.

A vintage MM Hohner Concerto II (rather than the LMM iii) would be a somewhat lighter 34\72. New, Brandoni makes the MM 30\72 Piccolo model--note it has no treble switches, you are always on two voices. Demos abound on the 'tube. A wonderful light folk box. Pigini offers the 2-voice 30\72 P30, another wonderful light folk box.

If slim keys don't bother you, there is the very light and compact 30-key 2-voice MM Weltmeister Rubin, but again, 60 basses. Though again, I wouldn't care for folk stuff. But the same size is available with 72 basses as the super- compact 3-voice LMM Juwel model. Smaller and a tad lighter than the Bravo iii LMM 34\72. YouTube demos abound for these guys. All nifty little folk boxes. Both the Rubin and Juwel give you 30 keys in a chassis the size of the typical 26-key PA. The Juwel would have your diminished chords, and while I love MM accordions, it can be lots of folk fun to have the 5 sound choices offered by an LMM setup.

 

[debra]

...

I'll share my thoughts and criteria, then maybe others will be able to suggest instruments, or options?

The Hohner Bravo III 72 ticks all the boxes musically. But it's 7.4kg which may be too heavy. But then it's in a different league - more treble keys, more registers. Happily, "Accordion Lounge" have a second hand one in stock and they're only a couple of hours drive from me, so that seems worth a little drive to try it out.

...

One thing to really consider is whether you should go for a "Made in China" accordion or not. Your first small accordion is a Chinese Scarlatti.
The ones you mentioned in your post now are Chinese Hohner Bravo accordions...
My suggestion is to look at accordions made in Europe instead of China. They are generally more expensive but also more reliable. And when you find a good used one you can have a reliable instrument made in Europe for the price of a new Chinese one (that wouldn't last long).

 

[Rosie C]

If the OP is saying the typical LMM 34\72 weight might be too heavy, this leaves MM as the alternative. I can't believe diminished chords are needed for Morris or flat-key oompah. I'd go with the 60 bass Bravo ii, unless any of the folk genres you list have a significant percentage of tunes that spend much time below the "B" below middle C. If they do, a 2-voice 30 or 34 key MM could be a tad lighter than same in LMM config. A 72-bass of course would have your dim chords too.

A vintage MM Hohner Concerto II (rather than the LMM iii) would be a somewhat lighter 34\72. New, Brandoni makes the MM 30\72 Piccolo model--note it has no treble switches, you are always on two voices. Demos abound on the 'tube. A wonderful light folk box. Pigini offers the 2-voice 30\72 P30, another wonderful light folk box.

You're quite correct - no diminished chords in Morris. The most exotic it gets is a Bm or D7! Dims are a "nice to have". There are some folk tunes I play that use them, but they can be worked around - e.g. one tune I play is notated with E˚ but a C7 works almost as well. I was looking at 12x5 and 16x5 bass layouts and just thinking I wouldn't want to be six months down the line and wishing I'd got something with the dim chords.

Thanks for the recommendation on the other models!

 

[Rosie C]

I'd second the suggestion for a lovely second hand Hohner Arietta.

My suggestion is to look at accordions made in Europe instead of China. They are generally more expensive but also more reliable.

thanks both, I've contacted The Accordion Shop with a view to visiting and trying one of their Ariettas!

 

[vivdunstan]

You're quite correct - no diminished chords in Morris. The most exotic it gets is a Bm or D7! Dims are a "nice to have". There are some folk tunes I play that use them, but they can be worked around - e.g. one tune I play is notated with E˚ but a C7 works almost as well. I was looking at 12x5 and 16x5 bass layouts and just thinking I wouldn't want to be six months down the line and wishing I'd got something with the dim chords.

You've already mentioned some tunes you play that have diminished chords, though they can be worked around. Given that, I definitely recommend 72 bass than e.g. a 60 bass compromise. Because if you're anything like me you will regret not having the diminished chords later. I rarely use mine, but am very grateful to have them there when I need them.

Very glad to hear that you are following up the Hohner Arietta lead I suggested. Hope that works out well, or you get something else excellent instead. Good luck!