ATG Exams

[debra]

When I took early retirement I had a number of option for my musical ambitions. Taking exams and going to the conservatory was a viable option (and suggested by the accordion teacher at the conservatory), but then I considered what I would gain from the experience besides a "paper", considering that I already played the accordion for 40 years, with a lot of classical and baroque music, and was conductor of an accordion orchestra/ensemble for 30 years, and have taught accordion to beginners enough to know that I certainly did not want to start doing that again... Another option was to devote more time on making arrangements for ensembles. And yet another option was to learn (properly) how to maintain and repair accordions, so that my playing could benefit from having well-maintained accordions, and maintaining the accordions of friends I play together with. In the end I decided on the latter two directions: making arrangements and learning accordion repair. This certainly have given me a lot of satisfaction in what I do, something that I'm sure exceeds the satisfaction that exams (with always very subjective ratings) could have given me.

 

[JerryPH]

I never formally learned music so I do see a lot of value in it for someone like me. That's one of the main reasons why I go for competitions. Make me practice harder. It doesn't really matter what place I finish in. Of course it will make me happy if I win, but thats besides the point. Even if I win first place in the professional category (hypothetically), the trophy doesn't mean I'm the best player. Preparing for a competition and making a submission has other benefits. It makes me learn harder songs. It pushes me a bit more to play it better. I loved learning Pink Panther, Pirates of the Caribbean and Frank Marocco arrangements of Under Paris skies and Moon River. I wouldn't have worked as hard as I did on those songs if it weren't for competitions. I didn't win the competition but for me the competition wasn't with other participants. It was with myself and it was ver satisfying (and incredibly stressful).

I see exams the same way. I started accordion 7 year ago when I was 29. I did not have a piano background or any other instrument for that matter (except for strumming guitars). The exams can be a great way to benchmark my progress. I love taking exams, so it isn't as stressful as competitions. I did look at the RCM syllabus as well. ATG syllabus is comparable. They have a annual festival and I'm planning to go. My daughters and I are planning to take the exams.

I did the conservatory thing for many years, and in truth I liked the process, just never took an exam. There was serious commitment on my end... once a week, my father and I got up at 3:00AM on a Saturday and drove from Montreal to Toronto, I had a 2 hour lesson, then we had lunch, sat in the car and drove home, in the process, drove 750 miles in one day. This was EVERY Saturday except if Christmas/New Year break happened and on those days I was made to play an extra 4-6 hours at home on top of the regular practice time.

I agree the ATG and RCM syllabus is similar, just a bit shorter. The ATG has 8 courses and the RCM had 10 plus the teacher's exam.

I can see where the process of doing it is helpful from the point of view of having goal oriented path to follow. I did my share of competitions too but never enjoyed that process at all... I did enjoy playing in public for most of my time, but in the end, the pressures of doing incredible hours took it's toll on me and broke me. My body basically made me stop because my mind was not listening to the danger signs. In a very real way, it's surprising I ever picked it up again, something that this forum motivated me to consider and try again back in 2016.

 

[dak]

I did the conservatory thing for many years, and in truth I liked the process, just never took an exam. There was serious commitment on my end... once a week, my father and I got up at 3:00AM on a Saturday and drove from Montreal to Toronto, I had a 2 hour lesson, then we had lunch, sat in the car and drove home, in the process, drove 750 miles in one day. This was EVERY Saturday except if Christmas/New Year break happened and on those days I was made to play an extra 4-6 hours at home on top of the regular practice time.

I agree the ATG and RCM syllabus is similar, just a bit shorter. The ATG has 8 courses and the RCM had 10 plus the teacher's exam.

I can see where the process of doing it is helpful from the point of view of having goal oriented path to follow. I did my share of competitions too but never enjoyed that process at all... I did enjoy playing in public for most of my time, but in the end, the pressures of doing incredible hours took it's toll on me and broke me. My body basically made me stop because my mind was not listening to the danger signs. In a very real way, it's surprising I ever picked it up again, something that this forum motivated me to consider and try again back in 2016.

Has a ring of Stefan Zweig's "Schachnovelle" ("Chess Novella"), but I like your ending better.

 

[JeffJetton]

Anyone that is interested can get the syllabus from the ATG website https://www.atgaccordions.com/shop

There are 8 graded levels (plus a preparatory level).

Worth noting that the exams at levels 5 and up require free bass. Stradella players like me can only get as far as level 4.

 

[JerryPH]

Worth noting that the exams at levels 5 and up require free bass. Stradella players like me can only get as far as level 4.

Thats the same for the RCM exams. You can start on FB from grade 1 up or stick to Stradella for the first 4 exams and then are obliged to go the FB route.

 

[breezybellows]

Worth noting that the exams at levels 5 and up require free bass. Stradella players like me can only get as far as level 4.

Is that really the case? Because I see stradella requirements all the way up to level 8.

 

[JerryPH]

Is that really the case? Because I see stradella requirements all the way up to level 8.

For RCM yes, for ATG, it may be different. Ask them directly, maybe?

 

[breezybellows]

For RCM yes, for ATG, it may be different. Ask them directly, maybe?

I see stradella repertoire list for all 8 levels in the syllabus book.

 

[JerryPH]

Cool , now that’s pleasantly surprising for those that want to go that route.

 

[JeffJetton]

Is that really the case? Because I see stradella requirements all the way up to level 8.

Yes, but they are in addition to Free Bass rather than being an alternate to it. (I probably should have more accurately said that Stradella-only players like me can only get as far as level 4.)

In level 5, for example, you have to play one "study" piece from the Stradella list and one from the Free Bass list. And the three selections you have to play from the listed repertoire "may be played on all Free Bass or divided between both Stradella Bass and Free Bass--with at least one selection predominantly Free Bass."

They address this strong Free Bass bias in the intro:

...it is required to show proficiency in both stradella an free bass in the upper four levels, with a definitive emphasis on free bass in the upper two levels. This is a deliberate attempt on the part of the ATG Syllabus Committee to help bring that proficiency up to the level of all other players through the accordion world.

 

[dak]

Yes, but they are in addition to Free Bass rather than being an alternate to it. (I probably should have more accurately said that Stradella-only players like me can only get as far as level 4.)

In level 5, for example, you have to play one "study" piece from the Stradella list and one from the Free Bass list. And the three selections you have to play from the listed repertoire "may be played on all Free Bass or divided between both Stradella Bass and Free Bass--with at least one selection predominantly Free Bass."

They address this strong Free Bass bias in the intro:

With regard to "proficiency", I consider it a comparatively solid reason that it opens up a wide range of literature intended for other keyboard instruments (piano, harpsichord, reed organ) without the need of significant arranging. Assuming you even have a converter instrument. Since the bulk of accordions (including many professional accordions) is just standard bass, and since a converter instrument has different design targets than a standard bass instrument, I do consider it somewhat strange that non-converters are left out of consideration beyond a certain level. It's like not admitting "mere" 4-string double basses into advanced exam levels.

 

[Alans]

I’ve been working on rcm three for almost two years-I believe in the curriculum component of exams-I went as far as grade nine on clarinet 35 years ago and would have finished had my teacher not left town. I have a copy of the ATG syllabus and I think it’s better than the RCMs. The rcm curriculum was written a long time ago-I met recently with the original author/ compiler and he told me it was the biggest thing among accordion education in its day. But unless you reach the free bass material which I think is grade six most of the pieces are out of print. And I’ve remarked before on the pathetic state of Deffner operations.
The level on accordion is incredibly more difficult then it was on clarinet-as I said I’ve been working on the studies and I’m just not there yet. The exams are extremely stressful and expensive-at least RCM-the ATG are new which is great because their committee continues to monitor the availability of their repertoire and takes their exam program extremely seriously which the rcm hasn’t done for decades. I was a member of ATG when the curriculum was first introduced and the discussion among the original writers was fascinating. I think following a set conservatory program is a wonderful plan-I never cared about the diplomas-it is a gradual development which gives the student something to work with/towards. If I took either of the exams down the road yes I would be nervous-the rcm examiners had a style that was worse than cold-and they're costly, especially if you don’t live in the U.S. and need to travel a great distance to play at the annual convention. When I was at that zoom discussion I asked if they thought of allowing people to take the exams remotely and they said they would be considering that. They are great programs that require an enormous amount of learning-studies,scales,compositions-and rcm expects everything to be memorized, I hope to try and climb the mountain one day again but it’s a very steep learning curve and a major commitment. It’s also not a cash grab for ATG which the rcm exams are.

Finally-Joan Cochrane has been an accordion professor for at least sixty years-she’s retired now. She is a huge proponent of the free bass system and recognizes this is problematic as very few teachers in North America know the free bass. She feels that students at the earliest point in their study should only focus on free bass because if you spend most of you years of education on stradella,you never develop a left hand as strong as students of the piano do.

 

[breezybellows]

I’ve been working on rcm three for almost two years-I believe in the curriculum component of exams-I went as far as grade nine on clarinet 35 years ago and would have finished had my teacher not left town. I have a copy of the ATG syllabus and I think it’s better than the RCMs. The rcm curriculum was written a long time ago-I met recently with the original author/ compiler and he told me it was the biggest thing among accordion education in its day. But unless you reach the free bass material which I think is grade six most of the pieces are out of print. And I’ve remarked before on the pathetic state of Deffner operations.
The level on accordion is incredibly more difficult then it was on clarinet-as I said I’ve been working on the studies and I’m just not there yet. The exams are extremely stressful and expensive-at least RCM-the ATG are new which is great because their committee continues to monitor the availability of their repertoire and takes their exam program extremely seriously which the rcm hasn’t done for decades. I was a member of ATG when the curriculum was first introduced and the discussion among the original writers was fascinating. I think following a set conservatory program is a wonderful plan-I never cared about the diplomas-it is a gradual development which gives the student something to work with/towards. If I took either of the exams down the road yes I would be nervous-the rcm examiners had a style that was worse than cold-and they're costly, especially if you don’t live in the U.S. and need to travel a great distance to play at the annual convention. When I was at that zoom discussion I asked if they thought of allowing people to take the exams remotely and they said they would be considering that. They are great programs that require an enormous amount of learning-studies,scales,compositions-and rcm expects everything to be memorized, I hope to try and climb the mountain one day again but it’s a very steep learning curve and a major commitment. It’s also not a cash grab for ATG which the rcm exams are.

Finally-Joan Cochrane has been an accordion professor for at least sixty years-she’s retired now. She is a huge proponent of the free bass system and recognizes this is problematic as very few teachers in North America know the free bass. She feels that students at the earliest point in their study should only focus on free bass because if you spend most of you years of education on stradella,you never develop a left hand as strong as students of the piano do.

I have two teachers and both of them highly recommend the exams. I love learning things in a structured way so the syllabus makes sense.

I did look at the RCM exams two years ago. I tried to collect the material from the syllabus and it wasn't available anywhere. Ernest Deffner (busso) never picked up the calls. I that one never materialized.

My teacher Joe Natoli has his compositions and arrangements listed as part of the syllabus. That makes it so much easier to gather the material.

 

[JerryPH]

I did look at the RCM exams two years ago. I tried to collect the material from the syllabus and it wasn't available anywhere.

I spent a TON of hours looking (it was fun to learn what's out there!), it took time and effort, finally knowing Boris Borgstrom in person helped, he sent me a ton of materials (over 50% of the RCM materials for the first 5-6 grades come from him), so that helped a lot.

Whatever I am missing in the last few courses I can replace with something equivalent and not need to worry about it becuase I am following a set path but can change it without needing to ask anyone. The ATG has a nice feature in that they offer the possibility of changing some things, as long as they give the OK.

I get the same advantages of following a system without the pressure and zero costs paying for instructors and exams. I would not be able to do this if I already did not have a strong and really brutal previous music education... and I really... REALLY... have no desire to relive that experience at any level. If its not fun and zero pressure, I don't do it, period.

 

[breezybellows]

I spent a TON of hours looking (it was fun to learn what's out there!), it took time and effort, finally knowing Boris Borgstrom in person helped, he sent me a ton of materials (over 50% of the RCM materials for the first 5-6 grades come from him), so that helped a lot.

Whatever I am missing in the last few courses I can replace with something equivalent and not need to worry about it becuase I am following a set path but can change it without needing to ask anyone. The ATG has a nice feature in that they offer the possibility of changing some things, as long as they give the OK.

I get the same advantages of following a system without the pressure and zero costs paying for instructors and exams. I would not be able to do this if I already did not have a strong and really brutal previous music education... and I really... REALLY... have no desire to relive that experience at any level. If its not fun and zero pressure, I don't do it, period.

I try to take the no pressure approach for my kids. I'd like then to have fun with it and get better over time. For myself, I try to push myself a little harder because it's my favorite activity.

 

[John M]

For any endeavor, Work Hard AND Have Fun!

 

[JerryPH]

In level 5, for example, you have to play one "study" piece from the Stradella list and one from the Free Bass list. And the three selections you have to play from the listed repertoire "may be played on all Free Bass or divided between both Stradella Bass and Free Bass--with at least one selection predominantly Free Bass."

If thats the way it is, I'd not "waste time" on Stradella at all for any of the exams and choose Free Bass only exercises/songs.etudes, etc... because you are taking away time that could be spent strengthening skills you need later on anyway. Of course, if you don't feel the need to advance in the most effective manner possible, each person is free to choose their own path... as much as they let you.

 

[Alans]

I spoke with the rcm many years ago and asked about the problem of material being unavailable. They told me to just get my teacher to substitute the appropriate material.

I haven’t looked at the higher courses because I haven’t learned free bass yet-but aren’t they piano scores?
I would think it be impossible to get free bass scores in North America. I’m always surprised at the amount of repertoire that is available if you use European stores.
I have quite a few pieces of Boris Borgstrom for earlier levels. The gentleman wrote a lot and the rcm syllabus uses a lot of it. I contacted him about two years ago and he told me he had sold his entire inventory. I contacted the person who it was sold to and she said she had just moved and was going to upload the web site very soon. That was at least two or three years ago and I still see nothing online. Why she would buy an entire inventory and then keep it hidden in her basement is one of the many mysteries of accordion music publishing on this continent. I was looking at the ATG syllabus earlier this week because of the discussion here and unfortunately many of the pieces are listed with Deffner. I wrote the coordinator of the syllabus also several years ago and expressed my dismay that they expect us to depend on Deffner which has the most bizarre business practises. She wrote back a few days later and told me she contacted Deffner and they promised her everything is available. So I contacted them once again and…nothing. I don’t care about Deffner except they have the most complete catalogue but there is something seriously dysfunctional about the way that business is run. Joe Natoli is on the board of the ATG and probably worked on the syllabus. He’s a huge advocate for the Roland-he won the first competition many years ago. I saw him perform after he had won-he’s a great performer and a huge advocate for the accordion,I was just not a fan of the sounds he made with his instrument. I think he’s probably one of the top teachers on the continent. If I could I would consider studying with him because he’s got great energy,but I’m sure his fees are way too high for me. Very positive fellow though.

 

[breezybellows]

Joe Natoli is on the board of the ATG and probably worked on the syllabus. He’s a huge advocate for the Roland-he won the first competition many years ago. I saw him perform after he had won-he’s a great performer and a huge advocate for the accordion,I was just not a fan of the sounds he made with his instrument. I think he’s probably one of the top teachers on the continent. If I could I would consider studying with him because he’s got great energy,but I’m sure his fees are way too high for me. Very positive fellow though.

I have been studying under Joe for a year now. He's awesome. His fees are very reasonable. $65 per hour and he recommends to have a lesson every other week.

 

[JerryPH]

I spoke with the rcm many years ago and asked about the problem of material being unavailable. They told me to just get my teacher to substitute the appropriate material.

I haven’t looked at the higher courses because I haven’t learned free bass yet-but aren’t they piano scores?
I would think it be impossible to get free bass scores in North America. I’m always surprised at the amount of repertoire that is available if you use European stores.
I have quite a few pieces of Boris Borgstrom for earlier levels. The gentleman wrote a lot and the rcm syllabus uses a lot of it. I contacted him about two years ago and he told me he had sold his entire inventory. I contacted the person who it was sold to and she said she had just moved and was going to upload the web site very soon. That was at least two or three years ago and I still see nothing online. ]

I spoke to her too about 3-4 years ago too, she was supposed to have a website up within a month or so… nothing. I knew then that this was going to be lost time and sadly, lost material. Why someone would pay out for ownership of that material and then do nothing with it is completely beyond me. I paid for a digital copy of one book from her and asked her when the hard copy would come out… she wanted me to pay again for the hard copy, even though I paid full price for the digital scan, that kind of leads you to know what they were in it for.

Can piano music be used? Yes… and no. There are things that one can do on a piano that is physically impossible on the free bass (left hand 5 finger chords, etc), a lot can be used, most of it actually, just not all of it. Even the RCM used piano books as part of the curriculum (Little Pishna, and others for example). Just choose wisely… there are a ton of good ones available on that archives website!

Today, the RCM still offers the free bass exams by zoom, yet there is no free bass program there and there are no free bass instructors there. They won’t help you with any of the materials, but point you to the 2008 syllabus fast enough and even faster send an email with the exam prices.

What qualifies them to be able to give those exams? Nothing, but the exams are an easy cash grab. This was a minor factor that added to my desire to pass on them, if I had not already been in walking in the other direction, that would have pointed me there.

Some people need validation, others don’t… I’m a big boy, I’ve paid my dues educationally speaking, I don’t need the thumbs up from some stranger to tell me I can play something or not.