I understand that. The delay plays a small part of it. It is unfortunate that I have a scientist’s brain as a those contradictory nonsense does not hide.
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Avoid Victoria accordions!!!
- Thread starter lispinini
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I do understand your frustration, and I do understand you can no longer work with a company that is less reliable than is acceptable for you (and probably for many others). I'm not sure other manufacturers are significantly better. They are all Italian... (and I know Elke is German, but after decades in Italy...) Lovely people as long as you don't try to do serious business with them. It's quite possible to do business with Italians once you adapt your expectations... But sometimes that just isn't possible. I'm thinking of Belgium and the Netherlands ordering high-speed trains from an Italian company... it was a complete disaster with billions in financial loss in the end. With Victoria at least, when you finally get the right accordion and fix the problems it has (from manufacturing detects to transportation problems) you have a fine accordion!
I thought it was a cultural clash too! But you will be surprised how many Italians are having issues with them. I know Italians who ordered from them and got something quite different after so much waiting. DM me if you want to know more so you can talk to them directly yourself. ( I highly suspect you know some of them, Paul) This Victoria is not the Victoria from the 60s. 100 years of the history doesn’t make mean much
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Look at this. A Chinese customer ordered 2 accordions from them 2 years ago. Customer kept sending email and didn’t get any replies. Then I pushed them to finish the orders. One accordion was 96 bass instead of the requested 120. No apologies required. Look at what she said about the order. I am just astonished. This is the so-called quality control. Something to ponder- Does time really buy quality in their production line?
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Victoria Accordions
Newbie
Hello Everybody, this is "Victoria Accordions"
First of all:
I think that it is very unethical for someone to publish inflammatory vendor disputes in a public form.
We are not used to "react" on this kind of conversation, but I think we must to defend our site of the business too. In 100 years of factory story ( myself 26 years in as Sales and PR Manager and Co Owner ) I always try and tried to satisfy customers, with high quality accordions.
I think we are quiet successful to have many happy customers, which also is shown by the fact that Victoria is the oldest factory in Castelfidardo in this moment that has always been in business ( 101 years of production with total of more that 105.000 accordions ). We delivered several accordions to Mr. Tam, who is dealing with different brands and also used accordions as far I can understand. Many accordions he ordered are custom made requests -with quiet a bit of specifications ( I just downloaded 160 pages A4 of whatapp conversations - in 24/7 mode - no Sunday/ office time respect - even I repeated asked to do business by mail - who works in this business knows that it is a little too much in 14 month of business relation ) . We have issues in Italy with shipping services since I remember ( which is not our fault 98% of the time ) - we had issues after the 2 month Lockdown with the delivery time´s ( we were not allowed to open the factories even if there were not many Covid Cases in Castelfidardo ) as all factories, had to catch up 2 month work and that caused some trouble in the suppliers network of Castelfidardo too.
In any case, there were sure some delays ( and there are still ), but also customers have delays sometimes on there site of the contract
( if you know what I mean "$" - and I am not used to wash "dirty closes in the Internet" ).
Well, whoever was not served in the right way by Victoria, I am sorry for that, we try to make our best, some customers we sure have lost and will loose on the way, which is natural I thing. Our main goal was and is to make high quality accordions on highest level, which takes some time as we have to coordinate the construction of more than 8000 pieces every time, to make sure all is 100% ok at the end.
Anybody is free to contact me Elke Ahrenholz ( victoria@accordions.it ) for any questions
- please not by messenger or whatsapp - that is not our way to make business.
First of all:
I think that it is very unethical for someone to publish inflammatory vendor disputes in a public form.
We are not used to "react" on this kind of conversation, but I think we must to defend our site of the business too. In 100 years of factory story ( myself 26 years in as Sales and PR Manager and Co Owner ) I always try and tried to satisfy customers, with high quality accordions.
I think we are quiet successful to have many happy customers, which also is shown by the fact that Victoria is the oldest factory in Castelfidardo in this moment that has always been in business ( 101 years of production with total of more that 105.000 accordions ). We delivered several accordions to Mr. Tam, who is dealing with different brands and also used accordions as far I can understand. Many accordions he ordered are custom made requests -with quiet a bit of specifications ( I just downloaded 160 pages A4 of whatapp conversations - in 24/7 mode - no Sunday/ office time respect - even I repeated asked to do business by mail - who works in this business knows that it is a little too much in 14 month of business relation ) . We have issues in Italy with shipping services since I remember ( which is not our fault 98% of the time ) - we had issues after the 2 month Lockdown with the delivery time´s ( we were not allowed to open the factories even if there were not many Covid Cases in Castelfidardo ) as all factories, had to catch up 2 month work and that caused some trouble in the suppliers network of Castelfidardo too.
In any case, there were sure some delays ( and there are still ), but also customers have delays sometimes on there site of the contract
( if you know what I mean "$" - and I am not used to wash "dirty closes in the Internet" ).
Well, whoever was not served in the right way by Victoria, I am sorry for that, we try to make our best, some customers we sure have lost and will loose on the way, which is natural I thing. Our main goal was and is to make high quality accordions on highest level, which takes some time as we have to coordinate the construction of more than 8000 pieces every time, to make sure all is 100% ok at the end.
Anybody is free to contact me Elke Ahrenholz ( victoria@accordions.it ) for any questions
- please not by messenger or whatsapp - that is not our way to make business.
D
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Look Lispinini (or Jonathan ?),
First of all, we only hear your side of the story…
This is not a courtroom and we are not judges.
I suggest, if you are so sure of your case, that you take legal action and fight it out in the courtroom with lawyers and judges.
This is an accordionist enthusiasts forum, it’s not the place to fabricate some proof or accuse people who can’t defend themselves !
I’d like to hear the other side of the story, because accordion makers in Castelfidardo aim for quality and long term relations with customers and dealers !
That is the only way to stay in the accordion business for many decades, some firms have a more than 100 years tradition ! Do you believe they would risk their reputation over some quick money ??
I suggest the administrator and moderators clearly indicate which members have commercial ties in the accordion industry. So we are more cautious when reading posts.
Jonathan, I suggest you stop dealing with Castelfidardo, and start your own accordion factory in Hong Kong. You buy machinery, hire workers, do all the work yourself. We’ll see if you do a better job than the Italians and produce top quality accordions.
The Castelfidardo people in Italy are after 150 years still producing top quality accordions, precisely because they are not in a hurry to make some quick money. What it takes is devotion, hard work, high quality standards, long time relations with customers, dealers, teachers, virtuosos.
I know the Italians as proud people and the Italians are known for their pursuit of excellence in all industries and sectors. From cooking, sports cars, accordions, fashion, etc.
They are not sloppy, quite the contrary, they have an eye for excellence, precision and quality. And so are most Southern Europeans.
But it’s true, you don’t want to push them and put too many stress on them. The Castelfidardo people are too intelligent to fall in that trap, otherwise, they would be out of business very quickly.
We are not naive, Jonathan, and the members know this forum (like many other fora) is infiltrated with business people who use it for marketing purposes.
First of all, we only hear your side of the story…
This is not a courtroom and we are not judges.
I suggest, if you are so sure of your case, that you take legal action and fight it out in the courtroom with lawyers and judges.
This is an accordionist enthusiasts forum, it’s not the place to fabricate some proof or accuse people who can’t defend themselves !
I’d like to hear the other side of the story, because accordion makers in Castelfidardo aim for quality and long term relations with customers and dealers !
That is the only way to stay in the accordion business for many decades, some firms have a more than 100 years tradition ! Do you believe they would risk their reputation over some quick money ??
I suggest the administrator and moderators clearly indicate which members have commercial ties in the accordion industry. So we are more cautious when reading posts.
Jonathan, I suggest you stop dealing with Castelfidardo, and start your own accordion factory in Hong Kong. You buy machinery, hire workers, do all the work yourself. We’ll see if you do a better job than the Italians and produce top quality accordions.
The Castelfidardo people in Italy are after 150 years still producing top quality accordions, precisely because they are not in a hurry to make some quick money. What it takes is devotion, hard work, high quality standards, long time relations with customers, dealers, teachers, virtuosos.
I know the Italians as proud people and the Italians are known for their pursuit of excellence in all industries and sectors. From cooking, sports cars, accordions, fashion, etc.
They are not sloppy, quite the contrary, they have an eye for excellence, precision and quality. And so are most Southern Europeans.
But it’s true, you don’t want to push them and put too many stress on them. The Castelfidardo people are too intelligent to fall in that trap, otherwise, they would be out of business very quickly.
We are not naive, Jonathan, and the members know this forum (like many other fora) is infiltrated with business people who use it for marketing purposes.
Victoria Accordions
Newbie
...
we delivered several accordions the way you ordered - of course mistakes can happen and we excused for that . If you were sooo unhappy - it is very strange - that you ordered the last accordions only a few days ago - again by whatsapp instead of the pro forma ( also if you did not pay for order confirmation neither last delivery in August 2020 regular and we cancelled all orders since our business with you is not possible to keep regular ) right?
As Elke is now monitoring this post, I think more of the factual conversations can be added to here. How about telling a customer that you can’t receive their email because they have been sending messages to an email that you have sent emails from? These 2 accordions weren’t actually my orders but this story is easy to understand. More to come tomorrow. Again, I have to emphasise that no personal attack or brand deformation is involved, as long as they believe they haven’t done anything wrong at all. I am tired and I think I will stop here today.
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Victoria Accordions
Newbie
We do not have 19 orders confirmed with Mr. Tam - as there are "some" difficulties in doing business - and we a sort of decided to go ahead NOT working with him - as we have the choice to work with professionals and I think that it is very unethical for someone to publish inflammatory vendor disputes in a public form. He is not a person I / Victoria want to deal with anymore.
May I suggest that this conversation be taken off-line, meaning in personal messages?
This forum is a common public source of information. While you need to register to post everybody in the whole world can find and read the posts of this forum. We do not need a complete record of all the discussions about the trouble between parties involved. It was good to mention that there were problems. We have seen that. We know there are more that can be posted but haven't (yet). I suggest to end this public discussion now.
This forum is a common public source of information. While you need to register to post everybody in the whole world can find and read the posts of this forum. We do not need a complete record of all the discussions about the trouble between parties involved. It was good to mention that there were problems. We have seen that. We know there are more that can be posted but haven't (yet). I suggest to end this public discussion now.
Victoria Accordions
Newbie
1 ) you received your first orders after about 4-6 month 2 ) if there was a mistake - we did comunicare about it
3) well... I have controlled about 12000 accordions in my life ( for many professional players too ) - I would make myself some questions too at your side - if you are sure to understand quality - in any case - we are happy if you find yourself more satisfied with other factories - as you are free to change and from our site we did not accept any further orders form you too, so I think we are all fine
Ok folks, I think this has gone far enough. It's obvious that the two parties involved have issues with each other but I do not think arguing and name-calling in this forum will solve anything, so I am locking this thread.
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