Ballone Burini model 45 (piano)

[Wilco 58]

After 1 year of experimenting on a old accordeon i decided to go for a good secondhand accordeon to learn to play on. Because of my build i decided for a 120 bass. I found a beautiful Ballone Burini model 45, piano double oktav, 11 pianoregisters and 5 bassregisters. Im still loving it, but noticed recently, using an tonegenerator that it is a little bit off-key.
So, Ill bring it to a good craftsman shortly. Browsing the internet though to find out the age and more of my model I cant find anything anywhere about this specific model. Who can tell me more ?
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/28/6u2y2yty.jpg>


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[Jim the box]

Welcome to the forum Wilco 58

I have a Bugari that is tuned sharp, I’m not sure why but it annoys my wife when she tries to play along on her violin. :lol:
Though I wish I had known when I bought it but you don't think the pitch will be different than concert. :hb

There are obviously different tunings,but why? Anyone?

 

[BobM]

Welcome to the forum Wilco 58

I have a Bugari that is tuned sharp, I’m not sure why but it annoys my wife when she tries to play along on her violin. :lol:
Though I wish I had known when I bought it but you dont think the pitch will be different than concert. :hb

There are obviously different tunings,but why? Anyone?

I think that there’s a history of Italian accordions having a central tuning A443, and the “+” reed set is going to add to that.

I specified A440 when I ordered my Brandoni, apparently more manufactures are making this an option now.

Jim D?

BobM.

 

[Wilco 58]

Hi guys, my Ballone Burini is happily tuned at 440 Hz. I ment to say with off-key that the seperated tones , messured on the 4-foot, (piccolo) left 8-feet (clarinet) and 16 feet (bassoon) register are in 30 % of the messurements more than 4 cents off (max. Is 8 % off)
Isn't that to much ? I think of professional maintenance tuning my accordeon, or isn't that wise ?


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[Jim the box]

I wish mine was only 4 cents off, has anyone any idea as to why it is historically A443?

As I said I didn't realise that I needed to specify A440, it would have been nice to have been asked.

Sorry Wilco 58 I didn't mean to hi-jack your post.

 

[BobM]

I wish mine was only 4 cents off, has anyone any idea as to why it is historically A443?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...c#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music

There’s also an attempt to have a new sub A440 standard that some people believe to be more “musical”.

BobM.

 

[JIM D.]

The decision to order a brand or model of accordion with wet or dry tuning is made by the importer or distributor. 95% of accordions imported to the US in the past 60 years were dry tuned at 440. Most all accordions I've worked on that have been tuned wet were purchased in Europe. If you have 12 violinists playing the same part and one of them plays slightly out of tune the out of tune violin will always stand out. Wet tuned and accordions tuned musette were originally made to stand out and heard when played with different instruments. Accordionists playing ethnic music prefer this wet tuning. You have a very fine quality accordion here and I would advise you to leave it in original form. Re-tuning 160+ reed tongues will be costly. Your model is still being made in Italy and yours can't be that old as it has the white bass buttons that have become popular it the past 10 to 15 years. If you go to their website you will find it down at this time as it is being updated. JIM D.

 

[Glenn]

Hoi Wilko,

Ik heb ook een Burini maar ietsje meer modern.

These last few years they have changed the grill but essentially it is the same.
I have the octave tuned version with cassotto. I will check the tuning as I never specified that when I ordered it.
From photos ive seen yours can't be older than 10years.
I agree with Jim, don't stsrt messing with the tuning unless you have a strong reason to do so.

With regard to the website it has been down more than 6 months which is not a good sign. :?

 

[goldtopia]

I have a violin player that tunes his violin slightly sharp which sounds awful with an accurately tuned accordion. His electronic tuner he purposely has adjusted to 443. when he come to see me he has to re-adjust it back to 440 otherwise I wont play with him. In another band he plays in he complains about another vionin player for playing flat when really it is himeself that is playing sharp. I dont know why people tune their instrument over pitch. Its definately not right and its very annoying.

 

[Jim the box]

I have a violin player that tunes his violin slightly sharp which sounds awful with an accurately tuned accordion. His electronic tuner he purposely has adjusted to 443. when he come to see me he has to re-adjust it back to 440 otherwise I wont play with him. In another band he plays in he complains about another vionin player for playing flat when really it is himeself that is playing sharp. I dont know why people tune their instrument over pitch. Its definately not right and its very annoying.

Similar to someone I know who spends ages with a tuner getting the violin in tune and then playing it out of tune all night. :hb

 

[dunlustin]

I have heard that violin soloists sometimes tune sharp to "cut through" the rest of the orchestra - a bit like JIMD's comment on the purpose of wet tunings.
Quotes from the wiki article above:
"United States: some use A = 440 Hz, while others use 442; Europe (such as Russia, Sweden and Spain) tune to A = 443 Hz, Berliner Philharmoniker now use (443 Hz) (rather) than their previous (445 Hz)."
(edited for length not content)
"4 cents" - I was told that 4-6 cents is about the smallest difference our ears can detect. Can others confirm/correct?

 

[Jim the box]

I have heard that violin soloists sometimes tune sharp to cut through the rest of the orchestra - a bit like JIMDs comment on the purpose of wet tunings.
Quotes from the wiki article above:
United States: some use A = 440 Hz, while others use 442; Europe (such as Russia, Sweden and Spain) tune to A = 443 Hz, Berliner Philharmoniker now use (443 Hz) (rather) than their previous (445 Hz).
(edited for length not content)

Fine for a violin but what about the poor old accordionist?

Silly question but can the Roland accordions be tuned likewise?

 

[dunlustin]

quote "Fine for a violin but what about the poor old accordionist? "
My wiki quote was for entire orchestras. I'd no idea the variations were so common. A choirmaster (Simon Halsey??) who works with choirs for the Berlin Philharmonic and Birmingham City Orchestras said on the BBC that one choir worked in A = 440 the other in 443Hz
Quote "silly question" Why silly? My FR1xB offers a choice from 415.7 to 464.3Hz, default 440Hz
The wiki article on history of concert pitch is a good read in its own right.

 

[JIM D.]

Most folks can't here the difference between 1 or 2 cents tuning and need a meter to tell the pitch. The difference in pitch bothers some and some live with it. Also the Roland's, like modern keyboards , can vary the pitch as you desire.

 

[BobM]

Jim The Box, you don’t say which “problem” register that you’re using when playing with the violinist, and have you checked the dry reeds with a tuner?

BobM.

 

[Jim the box]

Jim The Box, you don’t say which “problem” register that you’re using when playing with the violinist, and have you checked the dry reeds with a tuner?

The accordion is dry tuned HMML and the 2nd middle reed is tuned sharper.

The dry reeds if I remember right are tuned A443, but dont quote me on that.

 

[Wilco 58]

What the F#### is all this ? As a newbee to this forum I'm. Crying my eyes out!
I've posted a serious question about my accordeon and its pitch (I called it by mistake tuning / English is not my 1st language) but my topic is hijacked by Jim the box, and others join him without hasitating to turn into a complete different directing.
Is this a childrens playground or a serious forum ?
Why don't you start your own topic when you have a question about the history of tuning ?
Excuse my angry words, but that's how I feel.


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[dunlustin]

OK, I can understand why you're angry - thread drift gets on my nerves too.
It's irritating to see a new response only to find it has little to do with your question.
To be fair, I think there are some answers buried in the posts:
It could be worse - you could have an unusual Concert Pitch
more to the point:
If 4cents is barely discernible then people have suggested you would do better to leave as is - I've heard the limit is around 6cents.
JIMD - a confirmed accordion professional recommends you leave the instrument well alone.
I hesitate to offer an opinion as an amateur but spot tuning the odd note at 8cents would not be a major task I guess.

 

[Wilco 58]

Thank you Dunlustin for your responce and advice


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[JIM D.]

May I suggest a visit to a local children's playground to raise your spirits a bit ?? :lol: