Brand new accordion...underwhelmed!

[FingersPhil]

Hello everyone, after more than two years of waiting for my Victoria Poeta CBA convertor, it finally arrived a couple of weeks ago. It looks beautiful, but I have to say I am so far underwhelmed with the playing experience. The sound is nice but not stunning, and in general the box feels unresponsive and a bit sluggish. I have been told by Elke at Victoria and others that the accordion will need playing in, and I am very happy to do this. But I'd be very interested in any experiences anyone has about new accordions, as this is the first brand new one I have ever had. Do they tend to take a while to settle? Is it normal for things to feel a bit slow and unresponsive, especially in the left hand? This was an expensive purchase, after all...

Please note, this is NOT a Victoria-bashing thread! Things sure took a long time, but Elke has been great. It's more general experiences I'm after.

Thanks in advance!
Phil

 

[dak]

What was the previous accordion you played? The larger an accordion is, the more force you need to apply to the bellows for the same pressure. Concert instruments tend to be set up for large volume which comes at the cost of the intimate response. My own instrument is set up at a comparatively low starting pressure and people used to good concert accordions are irritated that it "starts playing by itself". Bellows stops are really tricky. Again: this is pretty unusual for a large instrument but suits me well. Reeds indeed take some time to settle in, and if the reeds are set up to respond too lightly, they may well choke at larger pressures. So a new instrument may be set up with a bit of a safety margin.

Also hearing tends to adapt to the instrument. I find pretty much every instrument other than the one I am mainly playing lacking in response to subtle variations in bellows pressure and button depression depth. In particular, comparatively new high quality instruments with good mechanics and robust reed response feel too "digital" to my playing: the pallets don't really give me much more control than "open" or "close".

Give it a bit of time for your hearing and your playing to get acquainted with the instrument. And check out other people's instruments when you have an opportunity: not listening, but actual playing. A pretty darn good instrument ordered as you wanted it in perfect condition has excellent potential to hit it off with you or any other player. Of course there is no guarantee that it definitely will, but you should give it a fair run for its money.

 

[saundersbp]

The sound is nice but not stunning, and in general the box feels unresponsive and a bit sluggish.

Sounds like an excellent instrument. I felt much the same about my two Bugaris (one new, and the other newish and never played much before I got it) took quite a while to warm up and enjoy. I didn't like either initially!

Accordions do definitely need some heavy playing in like other musical instruments (I know one person on this forum won't agree with that). If its a converter with really low reeds they do take a fraction of a second longer to get going. I've never found the LHS of any big converter when in stradella mode to be quite as lighting fast as a basic little stradella only accordion.

I never appreciated my accordion until I heard how it sounded listening to it a few meters away with someone else playing it. You've gone for a lovely mellow instrument with nice dark sound colours.

My tips would be to:
- play bit a lot, I mean a lot, over the next few months and throw it around a bit (not literally!).
- listen to someone else playing it with you sitting some distance away so you can hear how good it sounds to the listener.
- focus on music, not "testing" the accordion and looking for problems, as that's the best way to enter into that intimate dialogue between a living breathing instrument and a living breathing player. It won't play the same way as your previous accordion and that takes time to learn.
- some teething issues will inevitably show up in the next few months so take it back to Victoria for its free service whilst still in warranty. They will bend over backwards to tweak it I imagine as reputation is everything.

 

[debra]

The accordion should become a bit more responsive after a playing it some (a lot). But it will not change its behavior drastically. Every accordion is set up as a compromise between the fastest possible response and not choking on loud accents. Aerodynamics teaches us that while playing a reed is pulled inwards on average. So over time the reed tip will move a bit closer to the reed plate, improving its response (and the risk of choking) but a few months of playing should not make much of a difference.
My experience with new accordions is that they play well from day one. Things may "loosen up" a bit but not a lot. And the sound will also not change a lot. I'm assuming you tried a Poeta CBA convertor before ordering one? The new one should play and sound pretty much like the one you tried. If you did try a different Poeta model... it may not play and sound the same.

 

[McSqueeze]

Hello everyone, after more than two years of waiting for my Victoria Poeta CBA convertor, it finally arrived a couple of weeks ago. It looks beautiful, but I have to say I am so far underwhelmed with the playing experience. The sound is nice but not stunning, and in general the box feels unresponsive and a bit sluggish. I have been told by Elke at Victoria and others that the accordion will need playing in, and I am very happy to do this. But I'd be very interested in any experiences anyone has about new accordions, as this is the first brand new one I have ever had. Do they tend to take a while to settle? Is it normal for things to feel a bit slow and unresponsive, especially in the left hand? This was an expensive purchase, after all...

Please note, this is NOT a Victoria-bashing thread! Things sure took a long time, but Elke has been great. It's more general experiences I'm after.

Thanks in advance!
Phil

G'day Phil, Buying an accordion direct from the maker means of course that you can't play it before you get it and so there is some element of risk that it may not suit you. Also, I expect a long wait for delivery coupled with your expectations may have some influence on how you presently feel but in time and with familiarity I think you'll be happy with a quality instrument. Because of the multitude of variables, every accordion, including identical models, will be more or less different but in time you will adjust to it and it will adjust to you.

In 1979 I was back in Dundee and visited John Huband who I had been at school with. He had recently taken delivery of the first batch of 12 Classique accordions that he had designed and had built by Elka. They were all great instruments but were all subtly different. Back in Australia and a couple of years later I ordered a Classique and when it arrived I was somewhat disappointed with it, just like you are with your Poeta. However, because it was a quality instrument it didn't take long for it to grow on me and it has served me well for 45 years. Whilst I have several other good accordions the Classique is still my favourite, however, it's a big heavy accordion so doesn't get played so much these days. Instead, I'm playing a more compact lighter Manfrini that despite being a quality accordion, still has it's newness, but I know from experience that it will be a great instrument once we get to know each other.

Good luck with your Poeta.

 

[OuijaBoard]

I have seen another accordionist describe an experience with a new Poeta they ultimately sold because it didn't suit. I do think it was a poeta CBA. It had decorative musical notes carved in the wood IIRC.

If memory serves, I don't think the issue was difficulty playing it. I think the person didn't find the characteristic tone personality a good fit for them. A poster above mentioned a dark, soft tone, and I think that was the very thing that individual mentioned--they didn't use those words but they found the voice personality soft and more refined than they wanted. Something like that.

Anyhow--about the issue with finding the box itself sluggish: I read somewhere that the classic, old-school Italian way of building accordions was a heavier built, bulkier chassis that indeed might feel sluggish compared to some of the more lightly built (and more fragile) frames some builders are now using. It could be that the Poeta is a more "old-school" build but OP is used to a more lightly built box. I came across this comment somewhere while trying to get information about the build of Dino Baffettis. I had purchased a smaller one and was taken aback at how bulky and quote-unquote "sluggish" it felt. And I came across an approving comment to the effect that DB still built accordions using classic old-school Italian construction, which was a thicker, heavier chassis frame. There wasn't actually anything wrong with the Baffetti I had. The build was just sturdier and bulkier than I was used to. I'd still have it but it was stolen from my home in a traumatic burglary when I was away during a holiday weekend in February.

So, perhaps that is all that is going on with the Poeta.

 

[debra]

I have seen another accordionist describe an experience with a new Poeta they ultimately sold because it didn't suit. I do think it was a poeta CBA. It had decorative musical notes carved in the wood IIRC.
...

The Poeta line of accordions are relatively lightweight. I have worked on one and it was a truly fine instrument. (It was a ladies-size 41/120 piano accordion without convertor. Probably a Poeta Principe which is listed as being just 10,5kg.) But of course a CBA (with more notes) with convertor (heavy mechanism on the bass side) will not be so light and it takes some getting used to to pull and push that heavier bass side. But after a while it should start feeling "natural".
I presume that Phil has listened carefully to the signature sound of Victoria accordions before ordering his new one. A Victoria has a signature sound that I attribute at least partly to the shape of the reed blocks, as can be seen in the photo below. The blocks have a trapezoidal design, significantly narrower at the top than at the base.
For comparison I am including a picture of another Italian accordion. I looked in my archive for a picture taken at roughly the same angle. It shows that these reed blocks are less narrow at the top. The Victoria design not only results in a different sound but also makes the reeds more easily accessible for tuning (at least for the reed blocks outside of cassotto).

I'm sure that the issues with the tactile feel and responsiveness will work themselves out. After all, despite all accordions being "hand made" they use mostly standard components, resulting in the feel of a keyboard and especially the bass mechanics to be similar on most accordions from the same period. (Only Pigini uses its own different bass mechanics, but all others use the same construction.)



Not Victoria:

 

[FingersPhil]

Hello everyone, many thanks for the very helpful replies. This forum is amazing...so much combined knowledge and experience. Massive thanks to all of you who keep it in motion.

In answer to some of the comments:
- my current accordion is also a big Italian cba (Borsini), although not freebass, which may of course account for some of my feelings of sluggishness with the new one. I think possibly I have also been being a little tentative with the Poeta, tiptoeing around the newness...
- yes, I did indeed pick out Victoria for that particular sound. I like the darkness and the mellowness, I just think I expected to be a little more wowed by it. But as most of you have said, I'm sure this will come. Once you start to properly hear and internalise a particular sound, that's when you learn how to actually use it and engage with it. This is advice I could easily see myself giving students, but perhaps have forgotten to apply it myself.
- I totally take on board the general recommendations that basically I just need to play it a lot! To play it in, but also so that we both get more used to each other (and thereby learn to love each other). And yes, no doubt a long wait and long-held expectations haven't helped.
- thanks also @saundersbp for the suggestion to listen to someone else playing it. It was only fairly recently that I did this with my old Pigini, and it was a revelation.
- yes, I'm planning to take it back to Victoria in the autumn to deal with any tweaks or set-up issues.
- @OuijaBoard, very sorry to hear about your burglary. There's a special spot in hell for those who steal musical instruments. And bikes.
Thanks once again all. Now off to do some playing...

 

[debra]

...
- @OuijaBoard, very sorry to hear about your burglary. There's a special spot in hell for those who steal musical instruments. And bikes.
...

That's what insurance is for. But of course you can just run to the bike shop for a new bike but you cannot easily find rather unique accordions when you're in a hurry... You wouldn't want to wait another two years for a new Poeta...

 

[losthobos]

Take it into your bathroom and play facing a corner and see how you "hear" the sound there.....
I have favorite places around my shack which brings out different tones for my ears to enjoy...

 

[colinm]

Hello everyone, after more than two years of waiting for my Victoria Poeta CBA convertor, it finally arrived a couple of weeks ago. It looks beautiful, but I have to say I am so far underwhelmed with the playing experience. The sound is nice but not stunning, and in general the box feels unresponsive and a bit sluggish. I have been told by Elke at Victoria and others that the accordion will need playing in, and I am very happy to do this. But I'd be very interested in any experiences anyone has about new accordions, as this is the first brand new one I have ever had. Do they tend to take a while to settle? Is it normal for things to feel a bit slow and unresponsive, especially in the left hand? This was an expensive purchase, after all...

Please note, this is NOT a Victoria-bashing thread! Things sure took a long time, but Elke has been great. It's more general experiences I'm after.

Thanks in advance!
Phil

I .think “playing in” is just an attempt to appease you, what can improve with playing, maybe the bellows and the straps ?

 

[dak]

That's what insurance is for. But of course you can just run to the bike shop for a new bike but you cannot easily find rather unique accordions when you're in a hurry...

That's kind of a problem with trying to insure a museum piece. What valuation do you put on something that you cannot regain for money? And where is the point in paying insurance rates when you cannot get back the instrument in case of loss?

Essentially you don't get to insure the instrument but your capability of playing.

 

[debra]

That's kind of a problem with trying to insure a museum piece. What valuation do you put on something that you cannot regain for money? And where is the point in paying insurance rates when you cannot get back the instrument in case of loss?

Essentially you don't get to insure the instrument but your capability of playing.

For older items (like accordions) you have to agree with the insurance company on which expert to ask for an appraisal of the item and then both the insurer and you have to agree that the appraisal results in the insured amount, and how that amount possibly changes over time.

 

[Thomas N]

Waited probably close to a year for my Excelsior 960 to be completed and delivered. Every aspect of it was customized with the assistance of John Castiglione (tone chamber, reed types, button color, keyboard, front grill, amplification system) and when it arrived and I first played it I couldn't have been happier. It had the Excelsior sound I grew up with and a multitude (5/5) of sound combinations. It hasn't changed at all in the 20+ years I've owned it. There definitely was no breaking in period for me. Sounded great right out of the case.

 

[saundersbp]

- thanks also @saundersbp for the suggestion to listen to someone else playing it. It was only fairly recently that I did this with my old Pigini, and it was a revelation.
- yes, I'm planning to take it back to Victoria in the autumn to deal with any tweaks or set-up issues.

Well I'd love to get my hands on your new accordion so if you are a sociable fellow I'll give you a shout when I'm next back in my hometown! You can borrow my Bugari and we can compare notes!

 

[FingersPhil]

You are most welcome to drop by anytime!

 

[RTW]

As to breaking in, I bought a used Titano serviced by "JIM" with no complaints. I will say when I bought a new guitar years ago planning to buy a specific one, the owner of the shop sat me down and brought out three guitars - including the one I was set on. Asked type of music I played and demonstrated each one with me as an audience. Yes, I played them but listening from afar sold me on a different guitar than the one I was hooked on. And, it was a hundred dollars less expensive. Maybe this example is apples and oranges, but id go with the sound initially produced. Breaking it in sounds like a sales ploy(excuse) in my view

Regards,
RTW

 

[McSqueeze]

Hello everyone, after more than two years of waiting for my Victoria Poeta CBA convertor, it finally arrived a couple of weeks ago. It looks beautiful, but I have to say I am so far underwhelmed with the playing experience. The sound is nice but not stunning, and in general the box feels unresponsive and a bit sluggish. I have been told by Elke at Victoria and others that the accordion will need playing in, and I am very happy to do this. But I'd be very interested in any experiences anyone has about new accordions, as this is the first brand new one I have ever had. Do they tend to take a while to settle? Is it normal for things to feel a bit slow and unresponsive, especially in the left hand? This was an expensive purchase, after all...

Please note, this is NOT a Victoria-bashing thread! Things sure took a long time, but Elke has been great. It's more general experiences I'm after.

Thanks in advance!
Phil

G'day Phil, I just bought a used Poeta CBA without trying it and am awaiting delivery. It is several years old but I don't think it's been played much. It will be interesting to see how I feel with it, especially after you experience. I'll keep you posted. John.

 

[debra]

G'day Phil, I just bought a used Poeta CBA without trying it and am awaiting delivery. It is several years old but I don't think it's been played much. It will be interesting to see how I feel with it, especially after you experience. I'll keep you posted. John.

A Poeta should last you a lifetime (and more for your heirs) but like all accordions it may require tuning.

 

[Piotr]

The sound is nice but not stunning, and in general the box feels unresponsive and a bit sluggish.

Last year I was in Castelfidardo. It was great opportunity to try another new accordions.
I visited Victoria’s store. My feelings were similar. New Poeta did not respond - specially left part.
Other new accordions form another manufacturers did not have this slow response.
My brand new Scandalli Intense plays quickly and without lag.
I hope they will improve this instrument for you, because the timbre is very pleasant.