Brass tone chamber?

[Elizabeth]

Any thoughts on a brass tone chamber vs wood tone chamber?
I was told the brass tone chamber makes the sound pop out more.
bur would you get the same or a similar effect with just no tone chamber?

 

[Ventura]

haha.. that's a good one.. the guy who is claiming
that has something made of Brass.. yeah.. but not
in his accordion

 

[Tom]

How about a tone chamber made of diamonds, Ventura, hardest substance known? Very sparkly sound I hear. If I had one I would sound as good as Morocco, or maybe Tunisia.

 

[Ventura]

Tunisia ? is that where Beltuna's come from ?

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I know a guy who had a tone chamber made out of mud. It sounded like some of those bass-chord combinations for Stradella bass.

 

[Tom]

Tunisia ? is that where Beltuna's come from ?

I heard they have good tunes there, provenance seems fishy.

 

[Tom]

I know a guy who had a tone chamber made out of mud. It sounded like some of those bass-chord combinations for Stradella bass.

Trying to get that “beginner sound”.

 

[Elizabeth]

Such wits!

 

[Ffingers]

I heard they have good tunes there, provenance seems fishy.

That's Tuna-sia!

 

[kimric]

Since everyone here is just joking I figured I would weigh in.
I have only seen aluminum and wood used, What the chamber is made of has little effect , it is much more about the shape. Brass would just make it heavier unless there was some other reason to use it, say some register or other feature needed to be attached to it, this would allow solder to be used.
As a idle thought someone might do some calculations and 3D print a tone chamber that had compound curves and shapes to achieve a effect that would be incredibly expensive to do otherwise.
It is thought that a polished surface does have an effect so wood might give a bit of a different effect if it was not varnished and sanded.

 

[Elizabeth]

Since everyone here is just joking I figured I would weigh in.
I have only seen aluminum and wood used, What the chamber is made of has little effect , it is much more about the shape. Brass would just make it heavier unless there was some other reason to use it, say some register or other feature needed to be attached to it, this would allow solder to be used.
As a idle thought someone might do some calculations and 3D print a tone chamber that had compound curves and shapes to achieve a effect that would be incredibly expensive to do otherwise.
It is thought that a polished surface does have an effect so wood might give a bit of a different effect if it was not varnished and sanded

 

[Elizabeth]

Oh my a straight answer…thank you!

 

[Tom]

Oh my a straight answer…thank you!

Hope you’re not offended, Elizabeth, we do like to have a little fun…..

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Trying to get that “beginner sound”.

No, I was thinking more like CM+A for a Cmaj6, but with a low A. Can’t beat that ffor a muddy sound.

 

[Ventura]

i guess my serious answer would be obvious/predictable
coming from me..

since the purpose and function of a tone chamber is all
about the shape and how it causes the path from the reed
tongues to your ears to be different, then the lowest weight
material (to date aluminum) would be the best choice since
the overall weight of an accordion is very very important
and has a long term affect on the owners quality of life.
The stability and strength of aluminum is predictable,
easy to work with and reliable over the long term.

therefore, my conclusion is:

the primary, perhaps only, reason for a Wood (or copper, or brass)
tone chamber is for marketing purposes. (notice the period)

that a salesman or brand can claim some vague superiority or
exclusivity for an incredibly overpriced but admittedly nice product.
and which arguably takes brass ones to say to a customers face as
they try and pick your pocket

a secondary consideration is that finished, highly polished
exotic wood is vastly more lovely/impressive to look at than Aluminum..
we know this from evidence based upon thousands and thousands
of accordions designed by Faithe Deffner to include two types
of wood across the length of the ReedBlocks built by Victoria for
Titano, and how amazing that long graduated color difference looked
when the accordions were opened up for inspection at trade
shows and sales events and showrooms around the world..

there of course is no practical or engineering reason for using
two toned wood sandwiches during the construction of a reedblock,
but they closed the sale on a LOT of accordions..
no doubt as long as old Titano accordions continue to survive and be resold,
those breathtakingly beautiful reedblocks will continue to impress
and close sales

the QUESTION is, did Faithe Deffner mark up her accordions significantly
to increase her profits with this marketing move, or did she write the
(marginal, but cumulatively significant) increased manufacturing cost off
to the advertising/promotional side of her budget ledger ?

if you make a purely cosmetic change to your product, is that simply
one of the costs of doing business, or do you try and make up some
story for the gullible AND charge them more for believing it ?

maybe that took brass to say out loud ?

She had a fine artistic eye, another case in point was the lacy
computer control/cut grill-work on the later Titano's, which were
quickly accepted by some of the best Female accordionists of modern
times, and which looked SO DAMN GOOD and, really, pretty by comparison
to the 1950's Cadillac/detroit/chrome grillwork on so many accordions
or the severe Black masculine fronts of typical high end pro boxes..

that design/look was quickly adopted/borrowed/copied by other brands
notably the modern Scandalli.. the sincerest form of Flattery ?

so that is my considered response to the question

 

[Rosie C]

a secondary consideration is that finished, highly polished
exotic wood is vastly more lovely/impressive to look at than Aluminum..

This is true, though I WAS impressed that my 1930s Settimio contains aluminium, as that must have been the equivalent of carbon fibre or kevlar for the time - industrial production of aluminium only being a recent thing back then.

 

[JKJ]

I have zero knowledge of the construction or effect of tone chambers (I've never even seen one) but am interested in the differences in properties of various species of wood vs metals, plastics, etc. I have no idea if the sound qualities related to a tone chamber are more due to the configuration, volume, surface treatment or something else.

“Wood” is a broad term. I have well over 100 species of wood in my shop and simply tapping on similar sized pieces of different species reveals a huge difference. Some make a dull thud, some a "thunk", some are more resonant. One of my favorites for music boxes, for example, is sassafras - a music box movement sounds more “alive” over all frequencies with sassafras even though the wood is not sized/shaped like a soundboard. It’s a fairly light-weight species, open grain - I’ve wondered if it might be good for a dulcimer. Sassafras grows everywhere around here!

(I made this little sassafras music box for a friend in Italy. I think I used cherry for the lid and feet.)



I’d like to read about the configuration and qualities of accordion tone chambers if anyone has a good reference. (in English!)

JKJ

 

[nou]

I have zero knowledge of the construction or effect of tone chambers (I've never even seen one) but am interested in the differences in properties of various species of wood vs metals, plastics, etc. I have no idea if the sound qualities related to a tone chamber are more due to the configuration, volume, surface treatment or something else.

“Wood” is a broad term. I have well over 100 species of wood in my shop and simply tapping on similar sized pieces of different species reveals a huge difference. Some make a dull thud, some a "thunk", some are more resonant. One of my favorites for music boxes, for example, is sassafras - a music box movement sounds more “alive” over all frequencies with sassafras even though the wood is not sized/shaped like a soundboard. It’s a fairly light-weight species, open grain - I’ve wondered if it might be good for a dulcimer. Sassafras grows everywhere around here!

(I made this little sassafras music box for a friend in Italy. I think I used cherry for the lid and feet.)



I’d like to read about the configuration and qualities of accordion tone chambers if anyone has a good reference. (in English!)

JKJ

Not strictly about accordions, but from my (and other builders) experience on building concertinas, materials used matter very little. Free reed instruments are not resonance based, and the shaping of the sound comes mostly from the geometry and to lesser extent from surface finish properties. How much of your fretwork is open will affect the action chamber impact on the tibre in a clearly audible way, but difference between metal/wood/PLA 3D print endplates with the same pattern is hard to notice. You can build a mellow sounding metal ended box and piercingly bright wood ended box. Same goes for reedpans - exact dimensions of the chambers or the reed position on the reedpan impacts the sound way more, than the species of wood or filament used for the reedpan, to the point of non-importance. You choose your wood mix for stability, durability and aesthetic reasons, not for acoustic reasons. Some of the best sounding boxes out there are even entirely 3D printed.

 

[Elizabeth]

Hope you’re not offended, Elizabeth, we do like to have a little fun…..

Heavens no.
I have come to expect wit!
Thank you for asking!

 

[dunlustin]

Elizabeth,
Believe me, there is still no such thing as a stupid question.
Re: "I have come to expect wit!" Some would say you're only half right.