Bugari owners

[jozz]

This is a question for people that own or have owned a Bugari.

I'm looking for some hands-on experiences with Bugari's, in order to better judge such an instrument would be worth it for myself. I guess the kind of info I'm looking for is details like these:

- I take it most Bugari's are purpose bought, but what was the main reason you got it?
- did it become your main instrument, and what instrument came before it?
- if it was a clear upgrade what were your/the limitations before?
- what type Bugari was it?
- after you got it? were you eternally pleased with it, or was it traded in later for something else?

...things like that.

I'm contemplating something that is being offered to me, but only played it briefly, so I was curious as to how other Bugari owners came by their instruments..

Thanks

 

[losthobos]

i had one....Beautifully crafted machine...had it not been tuned to 446Hz i'd still have it....

 

[debra]

I have bought (too) many Bugari accordions.
In 1999 my wife and I went to the Frankfurter Musikmesse looking for an upgrade from our old Atlantic IV N and Verdi V N.
We tried 5-voice instruments with cassotto and without convertor at all exhibitor stands that have these in order to make up our mind. The Bugari 285/ARS was a very clear winner. We bought one and a year later we bought another one so we bought played the same instrument. We later also bought a Bugari bass accordion which I still think is the best one around.
The main reason we got the Bugari artist cassotto was for the sound.

Later we wanted to start with melody bass and got a 289/ARS/C5 but it was too heavy for my wife. So she then started on the CBA with a 508/ARS/C which is really the best size for her. I later got a 505/ARS (the equivalent of the 285/ARS but in CBA) and again later found a 504/ARS/C in an auction and got that instead.
We really love the sound of the artist cassotto, and that is the main reason for getting Bugari over for instance a Pigini or Ballone Burino or Victoria... The only other brand we really liked the sound of is Beltuna (but these are rather expensive).

You have to consider that construction changes over time, the source of the reeds changes over time... so no two Bugari's from a different era will be the same. But they are all fine instruments.

In case you think this sounds like a Bugari sales pitch I should tell you that at this time my main accordion is a Russian AKKO bayan (comparable with a Bugari Prime for less than half the price) and we now use a Pigini 3-voice bass accordion instead of the Bugari.

Final comment: Bugari tunes the instruments to A=440Hz by default.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Jozz,

I do not own a Bugari, but a very good friend of mine does. Jon is a professional musician, and uses his Bugari for every gig.

It is a beautiful instrument; probably about the best I have heard. I have only played it once, but I have been fortunate enough to hear it being played many times.

Jon previously played a Hohner Atlantic and a Chanson on stage ...........He still has the Atlantic, but I bought the Chanson from him some time ago.

Have Fun,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

Thanks guys :!:

The main reason we got the Bugari artist cassotto was for the sound.

Paul,

Ive learned the Artist variety is the top of the line? I wonder what are the differences between that and championfisa, senior etc. do you have experience with those as well? Would you reckon this matters much with the sound or is it mainly the cassotto that does the work?

It is a beautiful instrument; probably about the best I have heard. I have only played it once, but I have been fortunate enough to hear it being played many times.

Hi Stephen, I am very interested in how it sounds to the audience rather than the player. Can you perhaps describe its sound a bit...that is to say, to get an idea what sets it apart from others?

Thanks

 

[debra]

Thanks guys :!:
...
Ive learned the Artist variety is the top of the line? I wonder what are the differences between that and championfisa, senior etc. do you have experience with those as well? Would you reckon this matters much with the sound or is it mainly the cassotto that does the work?
...

The Artist Cassotto is not the absolute top of the line, but it is very good.
A Championfisa and below has reeds of lesser quality. It has no cassotto either. The Championcassotto obviously has cassotto but also reeds that are not as good as the Artist Cassotto. When you hear an Artist Cassotto and a Champion Cassotto side by side you will hear the difference. If you hear just one they both sound nice. The main factor that influences the sound is the cassotto but its certainly not the only factor.

Bugari has models they call Bayan (PA as well as CBA) and they are still a bit superior, not only in material but supposedly also in the care that goes into the process. Supposedly for instance when you play the LH register the L and H reeds will have equally fast response on the most expensive model, the Bayan Prime. Of course that should also be the case with all other models but the reality is that construction isnt done carefully enough to have that property. (A new good Russian Bayan that costs less than half of a Prime will have that property as well...)

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Jozz,

It is difficult to describe a sound, but here goes:

My Chanson is perfectly alright for playing in Folk Clubs and Old Folks Homes, but perhaps not for a paying audience.

The difference between the Chanson and the Bugari is in the clarity and tone of the instruments. One is like hitting a bucket with a stick, whilst the other rings as true and clear as a well cast bell.

I have spent quite a lot of time with Jon in his music room, and can best describe his Bugari as sounding sweet and rich.

I truly hope this helps.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

One is like hitting a bucket with a stick, whilst the other rings as true and clear as a well cast bell.

thats a pretty strong endorsement there

I used to be around other accordion players and hear their instruments and compare sounds from different brands/type, but that is some years ago. So, thanks for your input the both of you :!:

The one Im looking at is a 96 bass Armando Artist model jammed into a 72 bass casing, along with converter. Its supposed to have all the hand-made stuff. So its good to learn there is a quality difference in the materials as well.

I dont know how many treble side reed blocks there are but I reckon there wont be a cassotto (probably not effective in small casings anyway?). When I played it briefly it didnt sound like it had one, but failed to ask.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Jozz,

My endorsement may have been just a little rich, but I wanted to emphasise the tonal clarity of the Bugari. My Chanson is not quite as bad as I have painted it, but the Bugari is definitely, by a long way, the better instrument.

Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder, and I can think of no better instrument than the Bugari. I am nowhere near good enough to warrant buying a Bugari, nor do the venues I play require so good an instrument. If, by some miracle, my playing improves vastly, I would certainly not hesitate to buy a Bugari.

Jon plays all over the country, both with his band, and as a solo artist. I have attended many of his gigs, but have most enjoyed hearing him play and practice in the music room/recording studio at his home. I really am privileged to have played duets with Jon, though those sessions have served to highlight the differences in both instruments and players.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Geronimo]

The one Im looking at is a 96 bass Armando Artist model jammed into a 72 bass casing, along with converter. Its supposed to have all the hand-made stuff. So its good to learn there is a quality difference in the materials as well.

I dont know how many treble side reed blocks there are but I reckon there wont be a cassotto (probably not effective in small casings anyway?). When I played it briefly it didnt sound like it had one, but failed to ask.

I have a Morino Club harmonica (so its small compared to chromatic accordions though humongous for a diatonic) which has one of the strongest cassotto sounds I ever encountered.

For cassotto to be really effective, you need high-quality reeds with large overtone content. Since small accordions rarely come with high quality reeds by default, that makes them unlikely candidates for offering a cassotto: it would just muffle rather than shape the sound. And if the sound of such a default instrument is lacklustre, nobody would think of ordering it with high quality reeds. So the probably not effective in small casings anyway is more of a self-fulfilling prophesy than an acoustical necessity. For marketing reasons, you dont want to offer cassotto in instruments that arent equipped with high quality reeds already by default. I seem to remember that there were some attempts to do so by some companies but it makes little sense: the results will make you wonder why you bothered.

 

[debra]

...
The one Im looking at is a 96 bass Armando Artist model jammed into a 72 bass casing, along with converter. Its supposed to have all the hand-made stuff. So its good to learn there is a quality difference in the materials as well.

I dont know how many treble side reed blocks there are but I reckon there wont be a cassotto (probably not effective in small casings anyway?). When I played it briefly it didnt sound like it had one, but failed to ask.

If I understand this right you are looking/asking for a one off which is always a bit of a risk. (These factories all make use of parts/subassemblies that are made elsewhere and if what you ask for isnt standard they might not be able to do it. I for instance asked for a different order of the registers, and that could not be done because they order the register slides in batches from a supplier and cannot do a one off.)
The smallest keyboard side they make with cassotto and all the other good stuff is the 281/ARS. Bugari used to make a 508/ARS/C CBA which I believe has the exact right size for the bass side to fit with the 281, but that was still 120 bass. The biggest challenge to match a 281/ARS keyboard side with a convertor lefthand side with 96 bass is for Bugari to have a convertor lefthand side that matches the dimensions of the righthand side.
Anything that is going smaller will not have cassotto and will be a disappointment regarding sound. I know first-hand that with the good hand-made stuff and everything but without the cassotto the 504/ARS/C CBA does not nearly sound as nice as convertor instruments.
I also know from the 540/ARS/C I own that the cassotto works just as well in a very small instrument. If you want that great Bugari sound you need to get the cassotto.

 

[wout]

Once a visited accordions of london and played a couple of instruments there. I played a Gola and several Bugari's.
I loved the Bugari's even more than the Gola I played (maybe cause the Gola was very old). I would have owned a Bugari if they weren't so expensive!

 

[debra]

Once a visited accordions of london and played a couple of instruments there. I played a Gola and several Bugaris.
I loved the Bugaris even more than the Gola I played (maybe cause the Gola was very old). I would have owned a Bugari if they werent so expensive!

Sound is all a matter of taste. I would not mind a Gola in good shape (or in bad shape but still with the potential to turn it into a good one). Bugari (with cassotto) sounds really nice, but I will not claim its the only one that does. In fact many Italian boxes sound good, but they all sound different. And for people who cannot afford a new one, check out used ones. Around here there are regularly some offers of good Italian boxes but you just cannot be as picky as when ordering a new box.

 

[Happy girl]

My Bugri, (Correct pronunciation ‘Buggery’) had a name change, & is now referred to as Phyllis.

Phyllis came into my life last April as part exchange for a 72 bass Sonola with a lovely sound, & a 120 bass Sonola with not such a lovely sound. No research or aforethought was attached to the exchange; I did not want to have two instruments but did need a 120 bass which sounded pleasing to the ear so, with sadness had to sacrifice my 72 Sonola.

She is a lovely instrument & very responsive; she never goes out & I never show her off.

She would probably benefit from having a more experienced player, but, as her previous owner was a lady, Phyllis may be resigned to the sedate lifestyle thus provided for her so far.

My aim is to keep her for life; having said that however, she is a bit on the heavy side, & if my newly diagnosed arthritis develops, she may prove to be too much for me.

This is what debra wrote about the instrument at the time:
’Looks like a Superfisa. Good quality machine reeds (no tipo a mano). A bit sharp (some would say brilliant) for my taste as it has no cassotto but some like cassotto and some dont, and cassotto would make for a considerably more expensive accordion.
The Superfisa is a good instrument that should get you going for a number of years, maybe until both your taste and wallet ask/allow for something else.
Check out the Bugari website at http://www.bugariarmando.com . The superfisa (if I deciphered the vague label in the photo correctly) was a model between seniorfisa and championfisa. It is no longer listed... The superfisa and championfisa mainly differed in the type of reeds used.
The championfisa has no cassotto. The lwest model that has cassotto is the ochampioncassotto’

 

[debra]

My Bugri, (Correct pronunciation ‘Buggery’) had a name change, & is now referred to as Phyllis.

Phyllis came into my life last April ...

Interesting. I have had several accordions in my life and never thought of any of them as being a girl (or even better, girlfriend)...
But when I got my AKKO bayan she quickly became my russian girlfriend. But other than AKKO she does not have a name (yet).
Maybe the issue of gender and name of accordions should become a new thread rather than hidden in this thread.

In any case, your description of the models is accurate and it also indicates the problem that when you want a small instrument it is hard to get that in good quality, with good reeds and with cassotto... It helps to shop around what different manufacturers are willing to produce. It is especially a problem in PA. Getting a good small CBA is not a problem: there is the Bugari 540/ARS/C which is virtually identical to the Pigini Super Compact.... In PA I believe it is hard especially for people who want a convertor because a small PA has such a limited range in the keyboard (typically 37 keys on a 96 bass).

 

[jozz]

If I understand this right you are looking/asking for a one off which is always a bit of a risk. (These factories all make use of parts/subassemblies that are made elsewhere and if what you ask for isnt standard they might not be able to do it.
...
Anything that is going smaller will not have cassotto and will be a disappointment regarding sound. I know first-hand that with the good hand-made stuff and everything but without the cassotto the 504/ARS/C CBA does not nearly sound as nice as convertor instruments.
I also know from the 540/ARS/C I own that the cassotto works just as well in a very small instrument. If you want that great Bugari sound you need to get the cassotto.

Well the risk is limited as the accordion already exists and its offered at a bargain price. Also, it comes with its own internal mics so im good to go immediately. Im planning to go out there and pitch it against my current box and see what I feel about it. I know I was blown away by the reed response at first, but later found myself doubting, and expecting the sound to be so much better but it wasnt. So probably it lacks the cassotto.

I really am privileged to have played duets with Jon, though those sessions have served to highlight the differences in both instruments and players.

I feel the same...my other concern is Im not enough of a player to get the most out of the instrument and really make it count

In any case, your description of the models is accurate and it also indicates the problem that when you want a small instrument it is hard to get that in good quality, with good reeds and with cassotto... It helps to shop around what different manufacturers are willing to produce. It is especially a problem in PA.

That last line is very important so this is why I kind of got obsessed with this instrument. They put al the a mano stuff in there and its exactly the right size and package for stage use. Two other things gave me doubt: its treble keys are more narrow to support the 96 armando keyboard in the 72 casing, and its colours....blue and orange

 

[debra]

...
That last line is very important so this is why I kind of got obsessed with this instrument. They put al the a mano stuff in there and its exactly the right size and package for stage use. Two other things gave me doubt: its treble keys are more narrow to support the 96 armando keyboard in the 72 casing, and its colours....blue and orange

From the 504/ARS/C I know that putting the good stuff in a non-cassotto instrument does make it sound better, nicer, more mellow than a non-cassotto instrument with just machine reeds. So you got a good instrument. You wont get the cassotto sound but you will get the very best non-cassotto sound I know of.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Jozz,

I have been saying for ages that my Chanson is all I really need, and base that assertion on both my ability (or lack of it) and the styles of music and venues I tend to play.

I now own three boxes, the above mentioned Chanson, a nice Galotta, and my recently acquired Hohner Arietta IV M 120/41. I suppose I got the Arietta as a "just in case I get better" instrument, perhaps assuming that I may one day need a 120/41.

Playing passably well is an aspiration, especially as I had never picked up an accordion until I was almost 68. It helps to be realistic about what it is possible to achieve in later years, but nice to live in hope of a significant breakthrough.

My instruments of desire are currently Weltmeisters, as they can be ordered with quite bright colours and patterns. They sound quite good as well, or at least I think so.

You may judge the relevance of my comments about the Bugari through the prism of my relative inexperience, but the one I have heard most often is a really sweet sounding instrument.

If you want the Bugari ..... buy it! It's only money.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[debra]

...
If you want the Bugari ..... buy it! Its only money.
...

What is only money to you may be completely out of reach to many others on this board and elsewhere.
Considering that the cost of an accordion (new or used) is in the same order of magnitude of a car (new or used just the same) it may be out of reach for many. Given the choice of getting an accordion *or* a car for many people the car will be the thing to get. (Of course it costs additional money to run whereas the accordion then costs very little.)

But yes, I have often spoken in a bit of a similar way, to people in my accordion orchestras: if you buy an accordion for say 9.000 euro (thats enough for a very decent one) and you use it for 30 years, the accordion effectively costs 300 euro per year. Compare that to the cost of driving to a weekly rehearsal, having 2 drinks there... you quickly spend also 300 euro per year on that. How come that the 300 euro per year is too much for the instrument but 300 is not too much for playing it?

 

[jozz]

...
If you want the Bugari ..... buy it! Its only money.
...

How come that the 300 euro per year is too much for the instrument but 300 is not too much for playing it?

Exactly :!:

I was counting on its rhinestones, but now I will show these valid arguments to my better half who still needs some persuading...