Bugari owners

[jozz]

Btw, would be nice to hear your Binci's against my tipo-a-mano's in the same casing.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Sure. Maybe slow tones, chords, what do you think? How do we record them? The little arpeggios that Liberty Bellows does for demos don't really show much to me, other than that the registers work. Nor do the different players of vastly different ability! e.g. I'd probably buy anything that Stanislav Culcicovschi played. He's ridiculous!
Anyone have any other ideas about how to compare accordions with different types of reeds with recordings?

 

[Eddy Yates]

Jazz, heres a Dropbox link to the bare files of my Bugari part from Emy Phelps Canyon Wren. Glenn had asked for that in a different post, so maybe hell see it here. Its mp3, which I hate, but for quickness.....here ya go:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cp3ceobuxmiet9j/Canyon Wren mixed near and far mics accordion.mp3?dl=0

That gives you some idea of the tone and control. I didnt use any bass notes, and only the musette register for most of it.

 

[jozz]

I guess this will be almost impossible to judge on a recording but its fun to try :mrgreen:

Do your builtins work? Probably Sennheisers MT-04. I had a thread about that:
https://accordionists.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5669

Here you find my playing the Bugari: https://instaud.io/26fU

Maybe you could play the valse damelie bit of the example (tutti bass + M treble, start on Dm) and record your builtins?

 

[Eddy Yates]

Nice! Yeah, hard to say which reeds are “better”. I asked Kimric Smythe about the differences between Binci and others and he said “control” and what I might describe as timbre. With different types of music, you might prefer different types of reeds.
Think I mentioned this before, but I’m getting a nasty buzz from my Sennheisers. Nobody within 500 miles to fix them, so I may have to get out the trusty soldering iron.
I’ll learn Valse d’Amelie.

 

[jozz]

Nice! Yeah, hard to say which reeds are “better”. I asked Kimric Smythe about the differences between Binci and others and he said “control” and what I might describe as timbre. With different types of music, you might prefer different types of reeds.
Think I mentioned this before, but I’m getting a nasty buzz from my Sennheisers. Nobody within 500 miles to fix them, so I may have to get out the trusty soldering iron.
I’ll learn Valse d’Amelie.

I agree control might be the best description of that.

Funny thing: I took out my spare for a spin on my amp and it too had buzz (never had it before on that one). So I took it apart and inspected the inside connectors as they are usually the problem from movement. They were okay, in the end turns out the under the grille connector had some very thin hair around its pins. Removed it, buzz gone.

 

[debra]

Nice! Yeah, hard to say which reeds are “better”. I asked Kimric Smythe about the differences between Binci and others and he said “control” and what I might describe as timbre. ...

I would interpret control to be different: It may mean that the reeds can be voiced so they respond quickly at low volume yet do not choke on a high-volume accent in music. This depends on the type of steel that is used, the thickness of the reed (versus size), etc. Of course who knows what Kimric Smythe really meant...

 

[Eddy Yates]

Paul, what do you think is the characteristic of Binci reeds?

 

[debra]

Paul, what do you think is the characteristic of Binci reeds?

I have no opinion as I have yet to see the internals of an accordion with a clear mark that the reeds are made by Binci. Almost no accordion manufacturer will state publicly which brand of reeds they use, and they may change from year to year (as I have seen with Bugari, for accordions of the exact same model, but years and not even decades apart). They may go as far as stating which type of reeds are used when they are not a mano. (Often they do mention a mano when this is the case but say nothing when its not a mano.)
In any case I have not seen a Bugari or Pigini or Hohner with a clear sign of Binci reeds, but often with a clear marking of a different brand of reeds. I know Victoria does not use Binci. I dont know much else for sure.

 

[jozz]

well let's first establish what they are then

these are mine: Cagnoni. But how do I see which type exactly? I see no other clear markings.

 

[JIM D.]

Reed tongues for most types of reeds have a blue bottom.
The hand made will have blue bottoms, but with blue edges on
the blue base
This proves the reed blank was stamped from a one reed wide
coil. This indicates the best quality steel. :tup:

 

[debra]

To further our knowledge about who uses which reeds: I just noticed on a Hohner Gola (from 2003, so likely built with significant input from Pigini although Hohner might deny that) that the reeds are Salpa a mano reeds. Salpa merged with Antonelli into what is now Voci Armoniche which I believe is what Victoria also uses. I noticed that the reed that has the stamp is the highest reed (on L register). Cagnoni typically stamps the lowest reed from a reed set. Others have stamped reeds somewhere in the middle of the reed (for instance Bugari when they still made reeds).
Also, some accordion manufacturers will deliberately put the stamped reed plate on backwards so that the stamp is hidden from view. You can tell by the missing diagonal stripe which indicates the side intended to be on the outside. (That Hohner Gola also has a reed plate that is backwards, but it still has at least one reed plate that shows the brand.)

 

[jozz]

Reed tongues for most types of reeds have a blue bottom.
The hand made will have blue bottoms, but with blue edges on
the blue base

okay I have the blue bottoms (the square part where the nail is)

the sides of that square area are blue as well, is that what you mean? the rest of the side of the tongue is not blue but just metal color

 

[jozz]

btw the Cagnoni site is not really helpful about this:

http://reeds.cagnoni.com/index.php?lng=en&page=11

metal specs seem the same for everything :?:

 

[JIM D.]

As I stated earlier, most all reeds have a blue fixed base.
The bases of machine made reeds have edges on the base of shiny steel.
This means they are stamped from a coil 6 to 8 reeds wide.

If the fixed base of a reed tongue has blue edges, this is an indication that
the reed blank was stamped from a coil of blued spring steel just one reed wide.

These blue edges are a sign of a hand made or hand fitted reed.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Thanks for the discussion, all.
Back to Duke Ellington who reportedly said,
“If it sounds good, it IS good.”

 

[jozz]

I have been reading up on the subject of reeds a little bit across the internet. But this is more complex than I thought :!:

There is no universal quality standard or garantee. But there are huge price differences.

Maybe most interesting to know is which type of machine produced reeds is best? At least those might be consistent quality.

And then you must ask yourself what is "best"...?

Just let me know when we can setup a scientific comparison test for our 72's

 

[Eddy Yates]

Test. Strange. I posted an answer twice but maybe didn’t hit submit. So, I’ve been in hospitals in Portland Oregon sitting with my oldest son who had a severe stroke. He may be out of the woods but still a lot of unknowns and surprises.
I’d like nothing better than to do a comparison, Jazz, but it’ll have to wait.
I tried to visit an accordion store here to buy or rent one, because really it would be great therapy for me, but after 2 callback promises and no callback, I wonder if accordion store owners are all just independently wealthy and don’t need the business.

 

[debra]

Test. Strange. I posted an answer twice but maybe didn’t hit submit. So, I’ve been in hospitals in Portland Oregon sitting with my oldest son who had a severe stroke. He may be out of the woods but still a lot of unknowns and surprises.
I’d like nothing better than to do a comparison, Jazz, but it’ll have to wait.
I tried to visit an accordion store here to buy or rent one, because really it would be great therapy for me, but after 2 callback promises and no callback, I wonder if accordion store owners are all just independently wealthy and don’t need the business.

Not sure what may have happened with trying to post. What sometimes happens is that you do hit submit, but someone else submitted to the same thread just before you and then the forum software gives a warning and asks whether you really want to submit... and it is easy to miss that. Happened to me a few times that I thought I was done but the submit had not worked because of this issue.

To the point though it is not normal for accordion store owners to not return your calls. In general they are not so wealthy they would not want your business... but in case a store owner is that wealthy it means you do not want to buy from that store because the profit margin must be way too large.

 

[Eddy Yates]

Thanks, Paul. Eileen Hagen’s Portland Accordions, the only store I’ve been in since Smythe’s in Oakland many years ago, is a joy. Both of those places are kind of Wonderlands. Diane Hagen runs the place for her mom. They sell new Petosas and have a bunch of used piano accordions, including the Sonola custom SS10 I’ll probably buy. Diane has been great to work with.
Sorry to be off topic.