Buzzing on reeds

[Ventura]

well, let's not have unrealistic expectations added to the legend of reedwork

the system of waxless reed mounting is not an alternative they flip
a coin in some accordion factory and do it one way today and another
tomorrow.. affixing reeds by using leather gasket type material and
nails or screws carefully placed is an ART and requires quite a bit
of SKILL as well as the TOOLING at a higher level to prepare the
reedblock for such perfect mating of the surfaces.

normal reedblocks are planed pretty nicely, fairly flat, but to
the level needed for waxless mounting ? is the wood of a thickness
and type that will hold these nails to this level of perfection of
hold strength ? (as opposed to nails just holding the reeds more
or less spaced and in place so that lower level workers can pour
the wax into place, which is really what is relied upon for less
than perfect surfaces to seal perfectly..

if you are working on an accordion that has waxed in reeds,
playing games might be fun and even work for a minute, but
if they used wax originally and it needs re-done, then just re-wax it
or at least re-melt the wax that is there before you start playing
fun and games with those little bitty nails

frankly, i would just take them out on a waxed box.. i certainly
do not have the patience to make sure they are all still seated firmly, and
i can easily imaging that if even one little nail came loose
next week
next month
even ONE
it could be / gonna end up coming through your bellows somewhere
in a bad place and THEN whattya gonna do about it ?

fugghedabout those damn spikey nails, they are of little importance
50 years 80 years later on a WAXED reedblock and most certainly should
not be expected to hold reeds in an airtight buzz free manner as a
primary function

how many of you even have the dedicated/proper tool for setting brads ?

(partial rant ends now)

 

[landro]

well, let's not have unrealistic expectations added to the legend of reedwork

the system of waxless reed mounting is not an alternative they flip
a coin in some accordion factory and do it one way today and another
tomorrow.. affixing reeds by using leather gasket type material and
nails or screws carefully placed is an ART and requires quite a bit
of SKILL as well as the TOOLING at a higher level to prepare the
reedblock for such perfect mating of the surfaces.

normal reedblocks are planed pretty nicely, fairly flat, but to
the level needed for waxless mounting ? is the wood of a thickness
and type that will hold these nails to this level of perfection of
hold strength ? (as opposed to nails just holding the reeds more
or less spaced and in place so that lower level workers can pour
the wax into place, which is really what is relied upon for less
than perfect surfaces to seal perfectly..

if you are working on an accordion that has waxed in reeds,
playing games might be fun and even work for a minute, but
if they used wax originally and it needs re-done, then just re-wax it
or at least re-melt the wax that is there before you start playing
fun and games with those little bitty nails

frankly, i would just take them out on a waxed box.. i certainly
do not have the patience to make sure they are all still seated firmly, and
i can easily imaging that if even one little nail came loose
next week
next month
even ONE
it could be / gonna end up coming through your bellows somewhere
in a bad place and THEN whattya gonna do about it ?

fugghedabout those damn spikey nails, they are of little importance
50 years 80 years later on a WAXED reedblock and most certainly should
not be expected to hold reeds in an airtight buzz free manner as a
primary function

how many of you even have the dedicated/proper tool for setting brads ?

(partial rant ends now)

Well said!

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

So I bought a soldering iron and I decided to try that with an old zombie accordion that I bought for practicing repair.

This is how I melted the wax on the top and bottom corners of the reed plates where I noticed cracks, or where the reed plate was literally falling apart.






Comments?

I am seriously considering going to a accordion repair workshop because I need to learn how to properly fix loose reed plates.

I also noticed it is very inconvenient to keep attached the reed plates with the wax only. Better to have also have screws that attach firmly the reed to the block so the wax can last longer.

 

[John Doe]

I also noticed it is very inconvenient to keep attached the reed plates with the wax only. Better to have also have screws that attach firmly the reed to the block so the wax can last longer.

It looks as though you tried to heat the wax with the soldering iron as opposed to touching the reed plate and letting it melt the wax. The was is all bunched up as though it never liquified sufficiently.

I have to point out that I have quite a few accordions with reedplates wtill firmly attached with the original wax in excess of eighty years. It's just not all that frail.

Eighty years is pushing it, but a good two score years or so is quite a reasonable expectation.

There's no real correlation twixt lngevity and the nails that I have seen. It DOES help in original positioning while setting the reedplates for the waxing but "tough as nails"? Not so much.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

It looks as though you tried to heat the wax with the soldering iron as opposed to touching the reed plate and letting it melt the wax. The was is all bunched up as though it never liquified sufficiently.

Isn't the heat going to damage the reed somehow? I just tried to melt the wax enough unitl it attaches the plate.

 

[John Doe]

You're heating the reed plate, not the reed. The melting point of the was is wildly below the temperatures which would somehow affect the reed temper. Just not an issue.

You could concievably have some leathers/valves fall off but even that is not really common. If so, use the ooprtunity to ensure they are flat and brush up the nap as required and stick 'em back on.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

You're heating the reed plate, not the reed. The melting point of the was is wildly below the temperatures which would somehow affect the reed temper. Just not an issue.

You could concievably have some leathers/valves fall off but even that is not really common. If so, use the ooprtunity to ensure they are flat and brush up the nap as required and stick 'em back on.

I will try that with the death accordion's reeds just to practice before doing it on the live one.


By the way, these are the pictures of the Hohner reeds that I shared before. I think the crack at the bottom is vissible.
I am not sure if I will have to do it as well at the top.

 

[boxplayer4000]

Accordion Reed Nails.
Perhaps this is a neglected subject in the ‘forum’. As has already been pointed out the reeds on some accordions are secured with wax, some with nails and some with a mixture of both.
What is clear accordion makers take nails very seriously and seem to have designed and produced various different forms to suit their needs. Three main groups tend to dominate; a ‘simple’ nail (or tack), one with a ‘cantilevered’ head and one with a larger domed head which is big enough to serve two reeds at once. All these varieties come in different sizes of head and length of shank (penetration). Some even have serrated shanks to help in their security.
I own one high end accordion (a Fratelli Crosio) with reeds nailed onto wood, with a cork seal between. (I think it’s cork). It is about 50 years old and remains in near original condition. I have approached the attachment of those reeds the same way I used to approach re-fitting cylinder heads in my cars. ie. the holding down screws where tightened in an order which evenly spread the holding down forces.

Ventura seems to suggest that there may be special tools for dealing with nails.
Quote: how many of you even have the dedicated/proper tool for setting brads ?
I haven’t heard of these and any further information/pictures would be welcome.
The only reference I know in connection with ‘brads’ refers to wood drills.

 

[John Doe]

There is indeed an amazing variety in tack/nail/brad styling in the accordion world. Some serve against torsional forces- as in the ones keeping the swivelling block hold down clamps from moving out of position. Some are indeed fully functional for those relatively rare instruments where the reed plates are nailed down agaist a sealing surface. The rest really serve to lightly fix the plates in place whereupon they are sealed and set with wax. The ones on J Dergut's instrument fall in this category. As noted above, many many accordions do just finewith wax alone, requiring a smidge more care in alignment when waxing but otherwise funtionally identical.

A nice sample of fasteners above. Some functionally different in shape and shank, others just cosmetically gussied up.

Below is a picture of the electric pot I use for melting wax. Works quite well for me- after use I leave a reservoir of cooled wax in the pot covered with a sheet of aluminum foil (aluminium for the continentals) and it seems to take no harm. It reheats in about twenty minutes

If you go this route, make sure you get a pot with thermostatically controlled adjustable heat. Designed for hot melt glue the normal setting is too hot for the wax; you need to have the low heat setting. If you get the "one heat level fits all" thrifty version with or without thermostat the wax will get too hot, start to smoke, and lose the more volatile components probably reducing its efficacy for use in accordions.

Practice on the junker before having at it with a wax spoon. It's possible to create quite the mess until you get the hang.

Sorry for typos.

 

[Glug]

I've found a flattened spade connector on the end of the soldering iron lets you be more precise with wax heating:



That's also a temperature controlled soldering iron set at about 120C.

The spade connector is thin enough to insert between reed plates about 1mm apart.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

I've found a flattened spade connector on the end of the soldering iron lets you be more precise with wax heating:



That's also a temperature controlled soldering iron set at about 120C.

The spade connector is thin enough to insert between reed plates about 1mm apart.

This is a great idea. I was very handy soldering circuit boards so I could try that with the wax

 

[Glug]

This is a great idea. I was very handy soldering circuit boards so I could try that with the wax

I've completely rewaxed several reed blocks using the spade connector jobby.
It's not the official way of doing it (wax spoons etc) but set to about 120C you can get very neat results.
I cut the wax into 'fingers' about 5mm wide and melt it onto the spade before applying it to the reed blocks.

 

[colinm]

Is it necessary to get wax between the reed plate and the reed block, or is just wax round the edge of the plate ok ?

 

[Glug]

I put a thin layer of wax on the block footing - where the end of the plate will rest closest to the air hole.
Then I press the plate flat on the block and into the wax footing.
Then I wax around it on all 4 sides. some of the wax will go under the plate if there's any gap.

When removing reeds for cleaning I've never seen any wax under the reed plate.

 

[32251]

Quick fix…..take a soldering iron with a sharp point. Heat it up and just move it along edges of the Reed plate. This will remelt the wax and lock that Reed down. Yes the Reed block needs to be rewaxed, but this will get you back playing in about 15 mins. When you get some time, you really need to remove all the reeds, clean them, and reinstall with fresh wax.

You can test a Reed block for loose Reed plates by removing it from the unit…then hold it up with two fingers on one end so it is dangling and lightly tap on it with a knuckle on your other hand. You can faintly hear the loose Reed plates rattling.

I work on mostly old barely playable accordions I buy cheap and resell. Even repaired most don’t bring much money, so I have to come up with good repairs that don’t take much time to do.