Cannot extract bellows pins

[maugein96]

I could do with gaining access to the treble side of my Maugein mini sonora accordion to sort out a sticky reed. However, four of the heads of the bellows pins have been flattened and look as though they will be impossible to extract without drilling them. These are of the pin head variety and I haven't yet established their length or diameter, although I could obviously establish that by removing one of the pins that still has the head intact. It looks as though somebody has been heavy handed when replacing them and shattered the heads.

I am extremely wary of trying to remove the pins myself in case I damage them and/or the holes they fit into. The answer would obviously be to go to a professional repairer, but I've had a couple of bad experiences here in Scotland and had the same instrument damaged twice by two different repairers. This was probably due to lack of experience of the type of instrument, although I suppose bellows pins are much the same in any instrument. The reed concerned is one of the high notes in the flute register, which I seldom use in any case, and it does sound on the push. It can be coaxed to sound in the draw as well, usually by playing it as part of a chord. The compression is excellent and the pins are doing a great job in their mutilated state.

I'm therefore reluctant to tamper with the instrument, as they now cost about £7,500 new and secondhand ones are almost impossible to source in the UK. In any case I could not now justify the cost of another one new or secondhand.

Anybody got any ideas, or had the same problem?

 

[rbs]

See the following website on how to make the tool:-
http://www.accordionrevival.com/ACCORDION_REPAIR1.php#Pliers

 

[barkis]

Maybe a link to accordion revival should be a sticky in this subforum.

 

[maugein96]

Thanks for the link. However, the tool shown wouldn't work in my instrument as in typical French fashion, the rear pins fit into recesses, i.e. the heads aren't flush with the casing. I've tried pin nose pliers but there isn't enough of the heads left to get a decent grip. I've also read about using a soldering iron on the pin heads to flatten them, but don't fancy that option.

I appreciate a photo would probably help but my mobile phone isn't the best for taking them and I don't possess a decent camera. I'll maybe try and post a photo from my phone when I get the time to work out how to do it.

I also saw a tool named a tack lifter, but it looks as though it would cause damage to the casing and probably the pins as well.

Both of my other accordions have flush surfaces where the pins enter the casing, and it is only on this instrument that I've seen this particular arrangement. With hindsight, it looks as though the pin heads have been damaged in an unsuccessful attempt to remove them by a previous owner or repair technician. I bought the instrument secondhand over 10 years ago and don't know its history. I suppose I could always try e-mailing Maugein with the serial number and try to get assistance from them. However, their factory was recently in financial difficulty and was subject of a buy-out. As a consequence their current website is a bit temporary looking, so I would be sceptical over whether anybody was available to answer my query.

I reckon my next accordion will have to be a Roland for cost reasons if nothing else, and also the fact that they can be repaired easily in the UK. Unless of course Roland takes a nosedive in the next year or so. I understand they are now Japanese owned, and I haven't been able to find anything concrete about their future.

 

[Soulsaver]

I'd try an email - what can you lose? they either reply - great - or they don't - leaving you where you are now - albeit they may ask for a pic, too.
All the images I see online look like standard design pins to me - suggesting these have been defromed as you suspect.

If you cant grip one of the undeformed ones to get it out, maybe there was be a special tool.
Sorry I cant be more help - but I've not come accross pins that have been driven below the surface - so a pic would help me a lot..

For info - Roland were formed in early 1970s in Osaka... have always been Japanese.

 

[JIM D.]

Hi Maugein; You have a uniquely and superbly made accordion. The reeds in this box will in almost all cases remain in tune for over 50+ years with only cleaning and sometimes leather and or plastic valve replacement. It seems from your description your box has been opened in the past and the pins have been deformed and re-used. I've been correcting just this problem with accordions of all makes for much to many years now and if you bear with me, I'll explain the proper fix. First of all DO NOT TRY TO DRILL THE PINS OUT !!! Remove the pins that still have heads with nipping pliers and the pins that no longer have heads will have to be driven in with a nail punch of the same diameter. Now you will have access to the reeds and any service required inside your box. Next you will need a new set of pins with a slightly larger diameter and larger heads. you will also need a drill bit the same diameter of the new pins. To re-assemble the box you will have to remove the old bellows gasket- assemble the treble and bass sections and re-drill for the new pins. Once you have re-drilled you can now apply new gasket and re-assemble the box with new good looking pins and better compression. New pins can be found in many different sizes and different head styles. I stock 14 different styles of pins in my shop for repair and re-building and for a typical pin and gasket replacement my prices are around the $120.00 USD range. If you care I can recommend sources for pins and gasket.

 

[maugein96]

Thanks for these latest updates. As Jim D says all of the reeds are in tune and I'm now thinking that I'll only consider opening the box up as a last resort. One or two valves will probably need replacing in the not too distant future, and if they get too bad there'll be nothing else for it. I never considered driving the pins in, but I suppose that's the best and indeed the only possible solution. Getting a new gasket the correct size might be an issue, as at 96 bass the instrument is a bit smaller than standard size. I should be able to get one from France when required. There is a place in the Lille area I could try. I can source different diameter pins in the UK, and would certainly rather undertake the work myself based on past experience.

How the instrument arrived in the UK is a mystery unless it was ordered via a UK dealer. The Yorkshire shop where I bought it couldn't tell me anything about it at all, although I suspect that it probably came here via the late Jimmy Clinkscale's accordion shop in Melrose. I remember trying one of the older "mini-basson" versions of the instrument in his shop about 30 years ago. Jimmy also dealt with French model Cavagnolo and Piermaria CBAs, but never in any great numbers. One of the reasons that they weren't popular was because they weren't Scottish tuned and repairers were unsure of them, particularly the French style treble couplers at the rear of the instrument and the stepped bass buttons.

It is a great instrument, if a little heavy at 10kg for its size, and I doubt whether I could part with it.

 

[Soulsaver]

Youll not have a prob with replacement gasket, it comes in strip which you cut to length like draught excluder- Charlie Marshall in Falkirk has various sizes and probably has stuff same size or near enough as your original. Very knowledgeable guy, great service too... and has a range of pins amongst lots of other interesting stuff.. no connection, other than a very satisfied customer.
http://www.cgmmusical.co.uk/CGM_Musical_Services/Bellows_Gasket.html

 

[maugein96]

Thanks Soulsaver. It's been so long since I took an accordion to bits that I forgot the bellows gasket was in a strip.

I had a bit of bother with the bellows on my Cavagnolo that I managed to repair with tape a good many years ago. Another old but great sounding instrument, with all three pure musette reeds in tune and no valve problems. I think I got a "Friday afternoon" one here though, as I've had a fair few little niggles with it over the years, most notably bass buttons sticking down. I had to dismantle the entire bass side and reassemble it no less than three times before I sorted it out. Problem was some control rods (at least that's what I think they're called) had bent out of true, and on my particular accordion it doesn't take them to go out of alignment by much for the buttons to stick down.

Also treble buttons on these are prone to snap off due to what appears to be inferior metal mountings. It started off as a 5 row but is now a 4 row after I lost a button from the inside row. Fortunately I learned to play French style C system on the outside 4 rows only. Haven't had any bother with it for about 20 years though, but I'd think twice before buying another Cavagnolo. They just don't seem to be as robust as some.

My other box is a Marinucci four row chromatic "sistema francese" (treble controls on back) and has proved bombproof so far. I reckon it will be at least 50 years old. The reeds are waxed and not pinned on leather like my French boxes, but it has a belting Italian tone with all three reeds on. The two voice vibrato is a little bit weak, but most other people who have heard it like the sound.

And here I am contemplating a Roland??!!

I've seen Charlie Marshall's website and had already decided to use him as a source for any spares I might need.

Thanks again

 

[Glenn]

I had a Marinucci for some whole. Indeed the 3 voice Musette sounded great. My box was an ex gigging accordion from a Bosnian refugee so it did sterling service. This make I'd not much mentioned on thus forum but I think they were very well made instruments. I've sold it on now to make space for another but I'm sure it has many years left in it. Good luck with opening your instrument. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Soulsaver]

Saw these and thought of you. Do these look like they could reach your pins?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Accordion..._Keyboard_RL&hash=item25940f4a98#ht_118wt_958

 

[maugein96]

Thanks for this soulsaver.

The problem is that somebody appears to have previously tried to remove the rear three pins on the treble side and has damaged the heads to the point where I doubt whether any tool is capable of grabbing them.

Also, the pins are set into a recess, i.e. not flush with the accordion body, so it is doubtful whether anything other than with a pin nose would be able to grip them. I've tried pin nose pliers without success.

Jim D reckons my only option is to shear the pin heads off and punch them through the bellows gasket into the body of the accordion with a nail punch the same diameter as the pins. Then replace the pins and gasket. Shearing the pin heads will be exceptionally difficult as I will need to find a tool capable of shearing them in the recess.

For £13 these might be worth a try, but I'll have to try and get them somewhere else other than eBay. A few years ago somebody from either the Czech Republic or Chile hacked into my eBay account, which I'd had problem free for over 10 years, and bid on and bought over £8000 worth of mobile phones and laptops in the space of a few hours. Fortunately they couldn't get into my Paypal account to pay for them. Scary thing was eBay couldn't work out how they'd done it, so I decided that the best course of action was to close my account.

Thanks anyway

 

[JIM D.]

If you bring your box to a reputable repair shop they would drive the old pins in with a 3/32" or 2.5000 mm drill bit and install new bellows pins of a slightly larger diameter. This procedure is not space science and can be done yourself. Once you get the old pins removed, obtain a new set of pins of a larger diameter and a drill bit to match. When you reassemble the accordion first remove the bellows gasket, re-drill for the new pins, apply new gasket, and re-assemble. If there are no dealers in your area, contact me on a PA and I can send you new pins, drill bit, and gasket.

 

[maugein96]

Thanks Jim,

I'm going to contact a repairer in Scotland, as although I reckon I could possibly do it myself, there is always the risk that I'll end up breaking something. I reckon I'll get it done fairly soon and if I cannot find anybody who is willing I'll get back to you once I know what size and length of pins and gasket I'll need.

I've had two bad experiences where a Cavagnolo suffered damage in the hands of repairers who were unfamiliar with the type. The guy I'm going to contact seems to know more about French boxes, so I'll see what he reckons.

Wish I lived nearer you as I reckon you could sort out anything that is likely to go wrong. The forum is lucky to have somebody with your wealth of knowledge.

 

[maugein96]

Problem solved.

I contacted a repairer in my home village and he decided he would only carry out any necessary work if it never involved punching or drilling the bellows pins. In desperation I got hold of a small flat headed instrument screwdriver and managed to catch hold of all the stubborn bellows pin heads. I felt that I had nothing to lose and there was no damage to the accordion cellulose. The heads of the pins are the smallest I've ever seen, but they started to move without a lot of effort and they'll come out OK when I get the accordion to him.

Cavagnolo put a rubberised grommet on the pins under the head that keep the pin heads about 2mm above the accordion body. This makes them a lot easier to remove, and I wish Maugein did the same.

Thanks for all of your advice and suggestions re this.

 

[Soulsaver]

I have just purchased the p-47 w accusim and downloaded both updates listed above. I have had no trouble extracting 3 of these, but I cannot extract the P47 update. Jzip says it does not support the compression method used. However, it extracts the original zip files and the accusim update just fine. I tried redownloading the P47 update but keep getting the compression method issue message. I do not have Winzip or another program for extracting the file. Please help.

Thanks.

Bill

Interesting first post...Eh? This is a forum for accordionists... thats a flight simulator, isnt it? But the helpful types we are: Winzip can be downloaded free, google it.

 

[JIM D.]

There are many rock musician's that swear they are flying when they are on drugs and performing.

 

[Glenn]

It's a probably spam . If it gets annoying we'll have to implement measures (say no more) .

 

[Soulsaver]

No, it's a flight simulator... Measures? What's its wing spam?

 

[debra]

If the pins on the bass side are still intact, remove them and open the accordion that way. You can then reach in and push the pins on the treble side out working from the inside of the accordion.
It's also possible that for whatever you want to do it's ok to work from that side and just leave the pins on the treble side in.