Castiglione Button

[eddielance42]

Thanks for having me guys. I have a problem I hope you can help me with. I bought this accordion. Seems to be mint but I can't really find any info on it. The issue is the pickup. It doesn't seem to work even though when I look inside at the circuit board it also looks mint. Does this take a battery in order to work? If so I have no clue where it's at. Any advise would be great. Thank you!

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Just a guess, but look inside the bass section and see if there's a battery holder or a dead battery inside.

 

[eddielance42]

Just a guess, but look inside the bass section and see if there's a battery holder or a dead battery inside.

I just don't see any other way to open it. I opened the front where I see the board of the pickup. But nothing battery related that I know of.

 

[Ventura]

the typical installation does have the battery holder inside the bass mechanism
section (under the wide strap, under your hand) is where Alan meant to look..

sometimes the "feet" on the corners of the bass section kind of hide the 4
screws that hold it on.. you do have to loosen the wide strap all the way unfastened
to remove the plate

the battery typically lasts about 6 months with normal use, but if it has
been left in there forever it may have leaked so the battery clip may need replaced

thats probably a pretty decent accordion

 

[eddielance42]

the typical installation does have the battery holder inside the bass mechanism
section (under the wide strap, under your hand) is where Alan meant to look..

sometimes the "feet" on the corners of the bass section kind of hide the 4
screws that hold it on.. you do have to loosen the wide strap all the way unfastened
to remove the plate

the battery typically lasts about 6 months with normal use, but if it has
been left in there forever it may have leaked so the battery clip may need replaced

thats probably a pretty decent accordion

Thanks for the info. OK so there are two levers on each side under the bottom strap. That must open something but I need to loosen the strap and I can't figure that part out

 

[eddielance42]

I just don't see any other way to open it. I opened the front where I see the board of the pickup. But nothing battery related that I know of.

Thanks for much I got it all figured out now. 9 volt battery that needs to be replaced.

 

[donn]

9V batteries are such a joke. Take one apart some time and see what's inside. Idiotic.

 

[dak]

9V batteries are such a joke. Take one apart some time and see what's inside. Idiotic.

No, small. Electret mics don't eat a lot of current. A 9V battery can keep them going a long time. Still, these days there are too many batteries around, so I prefer using the power provided by a wireless transmitter or from a phantom power adapter instead of a battery inside the accordion.

 

[OuijaBoard]

Don't have electrical intel for you, but in terms of general info Re the instrument--way back, there were Castiglione-badged instruments that were made in Italy, basic serviceable Italian stuff with what used to be called "factory reeds," and now seem to be called "Durall" or "Export" reeds. Later and through the passing of Mr. Castiglione, Castiglione-badged instruments were re-badged Delicia/Klingenthal produced--sturdy, playable and robust, and to a price point. Not certain, but judging from the register switches I'm guessing Delicia-type make. The lamented Main Squeeze Accordions in Manhattan's Chinatown/Bowery also badged accordions from Delicia, and gave a lot of joy to a lot of players. A nice, mint-condition CBA, hope you have lots of adventures with it!

 

[debra]

Don't have electrical intel for you, but in terms of general info Re the instrument--way back, there were Castiglione-badged instruments that were made in Italy, basic serviceable Italian stuff with what used to be called "factory reeds," and now seem to be called "Durall" or "Export" reeds. Later and through the passing of Mr. Castiglione, Castiglione-badged instruments were re-badged Delicia/Klingenthal produced--sturdy, playable and robust, and to a price point. Not certain, but judging from the register switches I'm guessing Delicia-type make. The lamented Main Squeeze Accordions in Manhattan's Chinatown/Bowery also badged accordions from Delicia, and gave a lot of joy to a lot of players. A nice, mint-condition CBA, hope you have lots of adventures with it!

The register switches indeed are of the unique style used by the Czech factory that makes Delicia and also the lower-end Rossini accordions. I don't believe this accordion came from the Klingenthal production site (Weltmeister) because of the style of the registers.

 

[debra]

No, small. Electret mics don't eat a lot of current. A 9V battery can keep them going a long time. Still, these days there are too many batteries around, so I prefer using the power provided by a wireless transmitter or from a phantom power adapter instead of a battery inside the accordion.

Because 9V batteries do not last a long time some accordions nowadays come with a "box with lid" mounted inside, on the bass plate so you can easily take out the battery without removing the bass plate. Many people now use rechargeable 9V batteries because modern mic systems (with tone control) use a lot more power than the simplest ones that can go for a few years on a 9V battery. I have a mic system from Caverna Eletrificações and it draws about 7mA. A 9V battery does not last long at 7mA unless you seldom use it.

 

[JKJ]

9V batteries are such a joke. Take one apart some time and see what's inside. Idiotic.

No, small. Electret mics don't eat a lot of current. A 9V battery can keep them going a long time.

The 9v batteries I’ve taken apart contained a stack of 6 small somewhat rectangular 1.5v cells in series, each smaller in size and capacity than a AAAA battery.

9v batteries are so valuable for those of us who design and build small electronic gear, things that don’t draw much current. The 9 volts is easily regulated to 5v or whatever the circuit needs to power integrated circuits, LEDs, small amplifiers, etc. I once made “big ear” with a parabolic reflector and used a 9v battery to amplify the microphone to feed to headphones. A 9v will last forever in that application. Maybe 40 years ago I built some little ultrasonic generators with a tiny speaker (to drive off occasional stray dogs) -the one I kept has had the same 9v battery in it for at least 5 years. All six of my Schlage electronic door locks use 9v batteries which last for years even with daily use. (I use alkaline for those) My wand-type metal detectors, underground wiring tracer, and other instruments use 9v batteries.

For those who don’t know, all 9v batteries are not the same - there are the old carbon cells (less common now), alkaline, lithium, rechargeable lithium-ion, and maybe more. The type to use depends on the application. Non-rechargeable lithium are a good choice for things that draw a bit more power - they are typically 1200 mAh. Alkaline are closer to 500 or 600 mAh, I’ve seen rechargeable lithium ion batteries claim 800 to 1000 mAh. I mostly buy alkaline and non-rechargeable Lithium 9v.

JKJ

 

[donn]

Now I'm a little curious - "somewhat rectangular" in a stack sounds like making a considerable effort towards a battery with more storage. The one I dissected was just a wad of little round batteries, hence a lot of air and battery casing.

 

[JKJ]

…The one I dissected was just a wad of little round batteries, hence a lot of air and battery casing.

That does sound like a joke!

The battery on the left in this photo is similar to what I found inside those I’ve cut open.



This picture is from the Wikipedia article on 9 volt batteries. Note that the “standard” 9v battery, at least all I’ve seen for sale, are the PP3 type.

Nine-volt battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The table under Technical Specifications confirms what I read elsewhere, that the non-rechargeable Lithium has the highest capacity. It may be the best choice for longest life inside an accordion.

For rechargeable 9 volts the claimed capacities vary by manufacturer. (browse Amazon) My experience is some people selling things may inflate the numbers (surprise!) or report numbers from targeted tests which may not reflect typical use. I prefer to stick to well known brands.

One caution about 9-volt batteries. If stored or transported loose without protected terminals they can accidentally contact some conductive material (or worse, another battery) and could cause a fire. Those I buy come with protective plastic caps.

JKJ

 

[Ventura]

similar to the issue of FR3 / FR4 battery packs and battery tech,
the 9 volt is dependent on Math

the original carbon-based 9 volt had, yes, 6 little batteries inside
each having 1.5 volt output which is 6x1.5=9 volt

the rechargeable version of a 9 volt typically also had 6 little
batteries inside, but 1.2 volt each (6x1.2=7.2 volt)
and which was enough generally speaking.. they had sufficient
amperage and reserve.. most devices designed for 9 volts
would work just fine on 7.2, or would still work just be a bit
less than full volume or brightness as the voltage lowered
as the battery depleted

digital electronics came into play eventually, and in practice
we began to see products designed for 9 volts that, instead
of working OK on low voltage, they just shut down when their
needed "threshold" voltage was not present (even if the battery
was still far from depleted) so some 9Volt NiMh rechargeable batteries
came to market with 7 tiny cells )7x1.2=8.4 volt) which worked
much better in these more sensitive devices

now the nominal voltage of a Lithium cell is 3.6 volts and rather more
when it is fully charged, so 3 raw LiPo cells making up a 9Volt battery
required a device that can withstand over-voltage conditions without
a burnout. Very problematic in practice, but fortunately miniaturization
of electronics has resulted in tiny voltage regulator circuitry which
can be built into modern "equivalent" substitute batteries, which is
why a modern 9Volt rechargeable battery is once again, actually, 9 volts, and
how the 1.5 volt rechargeable's i have spoken about for Roland's can
be so useful for us.

we also have now 12 volt batteries of the type used in computer UPS
systems or Emergency Jumper packs for cars or our TailGater portable Amps
that look just like 12 volt lead-acid batteries, but are in fact hiding an internal
bank of Lithium cells and a Voltage Regulator that controls both the charge
rate and the discharge level

the big problem with the 12 volt lead-acid replacement is that in practical use, re-charging
circuits are designed very loosely regarding Voltage, because the lead-acid type
(and the NiMh and NiCad) doesn't care about voltage, needing anywhere from a bit higher
than the battery is to a lot, while amperage during recharge is the more critical element

but a LiPo battery, if pressured by a higher recharge voltage than it can handle,
turns into a brick, or incorrect amperage sometimes gets them rather pregnant
and they can even pop off and catch fire

but the biggest game changer for the 9Volt battery is simply that the 5 volt
power level, because of cell phones and such, has become the elephant
of the portable electronics world, and dictates that most newly designed
circuits and devices can and will be focused on 5 volts

even to include powerful laptop Computers, which had been growing into
power-tool level hungry devices, but the latest ones (i just upgraded 2
laptops to new Samsung Windows 11 models) are now 5 volt based systems

in between technology advances, we had a lot of devices for Musicians,
wireless systems and such, designed for 9 volts, then suddenly we saw a
switch to built-in LiPo rechargeables, which for the most part doesn't work
so well when a device runs out of juice on a Gig, as when the internal
battery totally fails and you can't even jump the device with a battery pack
because the dead internal often will block the power flow.
(you have to remove the lame internal LiPo cell and sometimes re-wire
a bit to power the device with an external LiPo battery)

fortunately, a button top type LiPo rechargeable and separate chargers
equivalent to what we had been used to with older battery tech are now
commonplace, and many manufacturers are re-engineering their products
with "standard" 16650 sized batteries that you can switch out OR recharge
in place with a standard USB3 cable. The solar-powered lighting segment drove
this change actually. Look for PYLE UHF Wireless systems on Amazon for
a look at some products that incorporate this newer design engineering.
Single through 8 cell battery holders are also now widely available for 16650 size.

so frankly the bottom line is to be very careful when buying new products
not to get stuck with older and limiting battery tech, but to look for
more robust and versatile products based on LiPo and native 5 volts where possible,
or easily managed substitute modern battery equivalent products

 

[Tom]

similar to the issue of FR3 / FR4 battery packs and battery tech,
the 9 volt is dependent on Math

the original carbon-based 9 volt had, yes, 6 little batteries inside
each having 1.5 volt output which is 6x1.5=9 volt

the rechargeable version of a 9 volt typically also had 6 little
batteries inside, but 1.2 volt each (6x1.2=7.2 volt)
and which was enough generally speaking.. they had sufficient
amperage and reserve.. most devices designed for 9 volts
would work just fine on 7.2, or would still work just be a bit
less than full volume or brightness as the voltage lowered
as the battery depleted

digital electronics came into play eventually, and in practice
we began to see products designed for 9 volts that, instead
of working OK on low voltage, they just shut down when their
needed "threshold" voltage was not present (even if the battery
was still far from depleted) so some 9Volt NiMh rechargeable batteries
came to market with 7 tiny cells )7x1.2=8.4 volt) which worked
much better in these more sensitive devices

now the nominal voltage of a Lithium cell is 3.6 volts and rather more
when it is fully charged, so 3 raw LiPo cells making up a 9Volt battery
required a device that can withstand over-voltage conditions without
a burnout. Very problematic in practice, but fortunately miniaturization
of electronics has resulted in tiny voltage regulator circuitry which
can be built into modern "equivalent" substitute batteries, which is
why a modern 9Volt rechargeable battery is once again, actually, 9 volts, and
how the 1.5 volt rechargeable's i have spoken about for Roland's can
be so useful for us.

we also have now 12 volt batteries of the type used in computer UPS
systems or Emergency Jumper packs for cars or our TailGater portable Amps
that look just like 12 volt lead-acid batteries, but are in fact hiding an internal
bank of Lithium cells and a Voltage Regulator that controls both the charge
rate and the discharge level

the big problem with the 12 volt lead-acid replacement is that in practical use, re-charging
circuits are designed very loosely regarding Voltage, because the lead-acid type
(and the NiMh and NiCad) doesn't care about voltage, needing anywhere from a bit higher
than the battery is to a lot, while amperage during recharge is the more critical element

but a LiPo battery, if pressured by a higher recharge voltage than it can handle,
turns into a brick, or incorrect amperage sometimes gets them rather pregnant
and they can even pop off and catch fire

but the biggest game changer for the 9Volt battery is simply that the 5 volt
power level, because of cell phones and such, has become the elephant
of the portable electronics world, and dictates that most newly designed
circuits and devices can and will be focused on 5 volts

even to include powerful laptop Computers, which had been growing into
power-tool level hungry devices, but the latest ones (i just upgraded 2
laptops to new Samsung Windows 11 models) are now 5 volt based systems

in between technology advances, we had a lot of devices for Musicians,
wireless systems and such, designed for 9 volts, then suddenly we saw a
switch to built-in LiPo rechargeables, which for the most part doesn't work
so well when a device runs out of juice on a Gig, as when the internal
battery totally fails and you can't even jump the device with a battery pack
because the dead internal often will block the power flow.
(you have to remove the lame internal LiPo cell and sometimes re-wire
a bit to power the device with an external LiPo battery)

fortunately, a button top type LiPo rechargeable and separate chargers
equivalent to what we had been used to with older battery tech are now
commonplace, and many manufacturers are re-engineering their products
with "standard" 16650 sized batteries that you can switch out OR recharge
in place with a standard USB3 cable. The solar-powered lighting segment drove
this change actually. Look for PYLE UHF Wireless systems on Amazon for
a look at some products that incorporate this newer design engineering.
Single through 8 cell battery holders are also now widely available for 16650 size.

so frankly the bottom line is to be very careful when buying new products
not to get stuck with older and limiting battery tech, but to look for
more robust and versatile products based on LiPo and native 5 volts where possible,
or easily managed substitute modern battery equivalent products

How about a solar powered power station that is, say, 4” x 4” x 8” that has a built in 120v inverter and enough power for 4 hours of Fr4 and a small amp? Could be powered on off days and brought to gigs, or used for other purposes, like making coffee on camping trips? Is such a thing feasible? I have no clue.

 

[Ventura]

hey Tom,

actually such stuff is becoming more available and prices are falling as
the Camping market is driving this innovation

but for the Amp itself, there are currently nicely mature and robust models
readily available, so no need to have the separate power supply for the most part

I personally have one iON and one PYLE tailgater, which both have the 12Volt
lead acid internal battery type, 8 or 10" main speaker and a runtime of
several days, plus Bluetooth in the Pyle. Both have extendible handles and
dolly wheels built in. I also have 2 Roland Street cubes, which run forever
on a handful of AA batterys, and have great sound and FX, (and one interesting
home-made wireless Mic PA system for Vocals that i power through a
butchered street cube)

so if you want to pick up a nice little busking PA unit, this is easily done
and affordable. You can eyeball the ION stuff usually at your local COSTCO
or Bj's and the Roland street-cubes at Guitar Center

there are also many plastic bodied inexpensive karaoke and Bluetooth type
units available, and some are great values, but the plastic bodied stuff
can have some buzzing and other body noise at higher volumes, though
the light-weight and run-time specs are very attractive

for the Solar Recharge power packs, as i said many are now
on the market tailored to Camping. These devices are basically
bricks of parallel LiPo cells with enough power/current/voltage to start your car
in an emergency. Many of these sophisticated "bricks" have 5, 9, and 12 volt outputs
plus the 110 inverter built in as well as companion solar cells to help keep them
topped off in the wild.

Portable Power Station and Solar Panel Bundle

Portable Power Station and Solar Panel Bundle

www.woot.com

(woot is the liquidation arm of Amazon)

they had this one for sale recently at a pretty good discount,
and a raft of similar are on AMAZON of course. The key when comparing
is not the voltage or features, but the amperage/watt hours in the reservoir,
as same looking units will house one bank of batteries internally, the next model
one bank of double parallel cells, another bank with 3 cells in parallel etc.

the modern battery powered bikes and Scooters use LiPo paralell banks
in a similar way to achieve their impressive runtime.. the biggest expense
in all these units is still the cost of the component batteries themselves

but out in Rural USA you can also consider that backing your Pickup truck to your
Market Busking station is easy, then drop the tailgate and spread out
the Solar Cells and the extra 12Volt car battery wired to your stuff

i also have that capability for years and years now, based on the handy
slim suitcase type Solar Chargers panels from Harbor Freight designed
for the construction guys to recharge their tools and play their radios on building sites
and simple Solar controllers that are readily available etc.

100 Watt Solar Panel Briefcase

Amazing deals on this 100W Foldable Solar Panel Briefcase at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

i think i have mentioned my habit of replacing the car batteries before they
NEED to be replaced, as on the trickle charger or solar panel they will last for many
more years of service in non-automotive applications

 

[Tom]

hey Tom,

actually such stuff is becoming more available and prices are falling as
the Camping market is driving this innovation

but for the Amp itself, there are currently nicely mature and robust models
readily available, so no need to have the separate power supply for the most part

I personally have one iON and one PYLE tailgater, which both have the 12Volt
lead acid internal battery type, 8 or 10" main speaker and a runtime of
several days, plus Bluetooth in the Pyle. Both have extendible handles and
dolly wheels built in. I also have 2 Roland Street cubes, which run forever
on a handful of AA batterys, and have great sound and FX, (and one interesting
home-made wireless Mic PA system for Vocals that i power through a
butchered street cube)

so if you want to pick up a nice little busking PA unit, this is easily done
and affordable. You can eyeball the ION stuff usually at your local COSTCO
or Bj's and the Roland street-cubes at Guitar Center

there are also many plastic bodied inexpensive karaoke and Bluetooth type
units available, and some are great values, but the plastic bodied stuff
can have some buzzing and other body noise at higher volumes, though
the light-weight and run-time specs are very attractive

for the Solar Recharge power packs, as i said many are now
on the market tailored to Camping. These devices are basically
bricks of parallel LiPo cells with enough power/current/voltage to start your car
in an emergency. Many of these sophisticated "bricks" have 5, 9, and 12 volt outputs
plus the 110 inverter built in as well as companion solar cells to help keep them
topped off in the wild.

Portable Power Station and Solar Panel Bundle

Portable Power Station and Solar Panel Bundle

www.woot.com

(woot is the liquidation arm of Amazon)

they had this one for sale recently at a pretty good discount,
and a raft of similar are on AMAZON of course. The key when comparing
is not the voltage or features, but the amperage/watt hours in the reservoir,
as same looking units will house one bank of batteries internally, the next model
one bank of double parallel cells, another bank with 3 cells in parallel etc.

the modern battery powered bikes and Scooters use LiPo paralell banks
in a similar way to achieve their impressive runtime.. the biggest expense
in all these units is still the cost of the component batteries themselves

but out in Rural USA you can also consider that backing your Pickup truck to your
Market Busking station is easy, then drop the tailgate and spread out
the Solar Cells and the extra 12Volt car battery wired to your stuff

i also have that capability for years and years now, based on the handy
slim suitcase type Solar Chargers panels from Harbor Freight designed
for the construction guys to recharge their tools and play their radios on building sites
and simple Solar controllers that are readily available etc.

100 Watt Solar Panel Briefcase

Amazing deals on this 100W Foldable Solar Panel Briefcase at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

i think i have mentioned my habit of replacing the car batteries before they
NEED to be replaced, as on the trickle charger or solar panel they will last for many
more years of service in non-automotive applications

Thanks Ventura! Yup, this is the type. I wonder if this would power the Fr4x for 4 hours. I just don’t like the batteries because it’s annoying to take them out, power up and replace them (I haven’t researched longer lasting lithium ones) and wondering if they will last the whole gig or I need an extra set or two. Actually, I probably don’t even need an amp for the gigs I do. My acoustic is plenty loud for the farmers market and I suspect the Fr4 would be too, even when I do inside gigs. When I get famous I’ll get an amp!

 

[dak]

Thanks Ventura! Yup, this is the type. I wonder if this would power the Fr4x for 4 hours. I just don’t like the batteries because it’s annoying to take them out, power up and replace them (I haven’t researched longer lasting lithium ones) and wondering if they will last the whole gig or I need an extra set or two. Actually, I probably don’t even need an amp for the gigs I do. My acoustic is plenty loud for the farmers market and I suspect the Fr4 would be too, even when I do inside gigs. When I get famous I’ll get an amp!

I would guess the bass to end up kind of weak without external amp (there is only so much you can do with speakers of the available size and weight), and should guess that orchestral basses are sort of hopeless: those are real fun with a big external amp on my puny FR-1b (which doesn't even have internal speakers) and way punchier than an acoustic bass accordion (which cannot hold a candle to an actual acoustic double bass either).

 

[donn]

Just a terminology point -- LiPo, Lithium Polymer, has some common applications like (I gather) radio controlled model airplanes, but because of a somewhat higher risk of fires is not the rechargeable standard. Most common these days is (still, as far as I know) Lithium cobalt, generally speaking though there's likely some manganese or whatever in there. Once in a while, especially in cars or boats where space isn't tight, you may see Lithium Ferrous Phosphate, LiPO4, which has lower energy density but is less likely to burst into flames.