snavoyosky
Member
Celluloid: The true history and application
I'll practice what I just preached to _______________ and discuss accordions and especially the mystery of celluloid and its use and application on accordions. Hopefully this will tranquilize.
I will not address the regulations in Europe for I don't have any idea of their laws, but I do know that here, in this country, the fire code has regulations and requirements for its use. It is not banned but controls are placed for the transporting of celluloid which makes it difficult to acquire at times...unless one travels and transports it themselves in special metal containers. What I will discuss is what I am familiar with, after all these many years, and how one works with his material in covering an accordion.
Pyroxylin or cellulose nitrate (originally cellulose nitrate) or celluloid was the early form of plastics and used in many ways and forms and quite popular at the time.
However, it burned too easily and developed spontaneous decomposition, and was largely replaced by cellulose acetate plastics.
The mid 30s brought cellulose acetate (tri acetate) as a replacement for the unstable and highly flammable cellulose nitrate. It is this substance which covers your accordions. Acetate deteriorates in the presence of oxygen in an unused state, releasing acetic acid. This product was not flammable like its predecessor, but it still had decomposition and deterioration problems which were caused by heat, light, moisture, chemical reactions or from other chemicals placed in close contact.
What happens is a cracking, shrinkage, warping and the release of chemical gases causing this decomposition. In the case of cellulose acetate, the flammable aspect is not a problem, But in time it decomposes to a dust state. That has happened to some of my stock here when I failed to keep better controls.
And it is for this very reason why it must be kept in metal cases. I have many sheets of celluloid and must protect them from the elements.
It is deemed a fire hazard here in the unused state for it can cause a spontaneous combustion if left in the open, but this is rare. Julio Giulietti used to hide his sheets from the fire inspectors as in his state, as it was not permitted to exist. I do not have that problem here. The strange part of all this is that once the celluloid is on accordions, the fire inspectors overlook any dangers. (BTW, It is a misnomer that celluloid affects the rusting of reeds of the accordion)
Cellulose acetate is soluble in acetone as has been mentioned. Walter D. requested the know-how of placing celluloid on accordions and all the particulars leading up to that process. Rashid entered his disclosure of how the Russians did it, and I'm certain something was lost in that observation. The solution is 50% acetone and 50% water.
This is placed in various sized metal containers with lids, the sizes dependent upon the size of the piece of celluloid one must use to cover the treble or bass section. The piece must be larger than needed for shrinkage will happen. Enough solution must be in the tank to cover the celluloid piece. What procedure is used is according to the worker.
Hohner workers basically wasted material by softening large pieces and throwing it over the entire treble section and then cutting off the excess. (I've watched them) That's why you see there are no seams on a Hohner (unless it's an old one).
The celluloid is placed in the solution and a time must pass to where the celluloid has softened and is pliable like rubber. Atmospheric conditions affect this time quality so I cannot specify that. The accordion must be prepared with an adhesive to hold the oncoming celluloid. I've used Barge's as it was the best during this era. In past year's it was a type of acetone glue, but one had to be careful with it. You then take the softened celluloid sheet and place it where you intended and slightly stretch it on and tack it at the edges.
Normally, you must turn the corner with the softened celluloid to allow for shrinkage as it dries...in 4-5 days. Again, atmospheric conditions are still playing a part in this process. Once dry, you now sand the surface starting with about a 600 grit or greater and must be careful for this thickness you're working on is only .300" so you're looking to make the surface smooth and leave the rest to the large buffer using two compounds----cutting and polish. It's work and a lot of it. In time you'll be talking with your doctor about lung problems and chronic bronchitis. And so you have it, Walter. Surely if you compare what I've written to what you felt was correct before, you'll see the difference.
You gave that one five stars. And to continue with a bit more....
Johann Pascher stated:
<<
"I did discuses this with different accordion builders and they all agree
that in the long run it will be hard to find suppliers for celluloid,
and the day may come that it is not possible to work with this type of
material at all, because of European low.>>
SJN stated:
<<
I'll do you one better. As time passes, it will hard to find accordion factories as the instrument continues to lose it's mass popularity in favor of electronics. Look at the age group that is maintaining sales both new and old. Youngsters were once found predominately in teaching studios. Now its oldsters. I've experienced the height and decline of this instrument, as I started learning the accordion in 1939 and began teaching in 1953. I read about the how it's 'coming back' but this is marketing hype to encourage sales and maybe a few to learn. This would be nice but the world has changed in its desires. Even symphonies are expiring. The composers today are not scoring for live orchestras but for electronic 'virtual' instruments and effects. The movies and TV producers prefer this and encourage it for it eliminates costs in hiring musicians. The composer of the future will be a fellow at a keyboard and computer with sampled sounds and a sequencer and recording direct to CD. Its that now but not entirely....yet. And yes, there will be those who are purist at heart and want to learn and excel in an instrument. But they will be in the minority.
--
Navoyosky
********************************************************************
ginny wrote 17 years ago
Thanks Steve - <summarize for usenet - very nice article primarily on celloid.>
Although I don't expect to do that sort of work, it's informative.
I'll practice what I just preached to _______________ and discuss accordions and especially the mystery of celluloid and its use and application on accordions. Hopefully this will tranquilize.
I will not address the regulations in Europe for I don't have any idea of their laws, but I do know that here, in this country, the fire code has regulations and requirements for its use. It is not banned but controls are placed for the transporting of celluloid which makes it difficult to acquire at times...unless one travels and transports it themselves in special metal containers. What I will discuss is what I am familiar with, after all these many years, and how one works with his material in covering an accordion.
Pyroxylin or cellulose nitrate (originally cellulose nitrate) or celluloid was the early form of plastics and used in many ways and forms and quite popular at the time.
However, it burned too easily and developed spontaneous decomposition, and was largely replaced by cellulose acetate plastics.
The mid 30s brought cellulose acetate (tri acetate) as a replacement for the unstable and highly flammable cellulose nitrate. It is this substance which covers your accordions. Acetate deteriorates in the presence of oxygen in an unused state, releasing acetic acid. This product was not flammable like its predecessor, but it still had decomposition and deterioration problems which were caused by heat, light, moisture, chemical reactions or from other chemicals placed in close contact.
What happens is a cracking, shrinkage, warping and the release of chemical gases causing this decomposition. In the case of cellulose acetate, the flammable aspect is not a problem, But in time it decomposes to a dust state. That has happened to some of my stock here when I failed to keep better controls.
And it is for this very reason why it must be kept in metal cases. I have many sheets of celluloid and must protect them from the elements.
It is deemed a fire hazard here in the unused state for it can cause a spontaneous combustion if left in the open, but this is rare. Julio Giulietti used to hide his sheets from the fire inspectors as in his state, as it was not permitted to exist. I do not have that problem here. The strange part of all this is that once the celluloid is on accordions, the fire inspectors overlook any dangers. (BTW, It is a misnomer that celluloid affects the rusting of reeds of the accordion)
Cellulose acetate is soluble in acetone as has been mentioned. Walter D. requested the know-how of placing celluloid on accordions and all the particulars leading up to that process. Rashid entered his disclosure of how the Russians did it, and I'm certain something was lost in that observation. The solution is 50% acetone and 50% water.
This is placed in various sized metal containers with lids, the sizes dependent upon the size of the piece of celluloid one must use to cover the treble or bass section. The piece must be larger than needed for shrinkage will happen. Enough solution must be in the tank to cover the celluloid piece. What procedure is used is according to the worker.
Hohner workers basically wasted material by softening large pieces and throwing it over the entire treble section and then cutting off the excess. (I've watched them) That's why you see there are no seams on a Hohner (unless it's an old one).
The celluloid is placed in the solution and a time must pass to where the celluloid has softened and is pliable like rubber. Atmospheric conditions affect this time quality so I cannot specify that. The accordion must be prepared with an adhesive to hold the oncoming celluloid. I've used Barge's as it was the best during this era. In past year's it was a type of acetone glue, but one had to be careful with it. You then take the softened celluloid sheet and place it where you intended and slightly stretch it on and tack it at the edges.
Normally, you must turn the corner with the softened celluloid to allow for shrinkage as it dries...in 4-5 days. Again, atmospheric conditions are still playing a part in this process. Once dry, you now sand the surface starting with about a 600 grit or greater and must be careful for this thickness you're working on is only .300" so you're looking to make the surface smooth and leave the rest to the large buffer using two compounds----cutting and polish. It's work and a lot of it. In time you'll be talking with your doctor about lung problems and chronic bronchitis. And so you have it, Walter. Surely if you compare what I've written to what you felt was correct before, you'll see the difference.
You gave that one five stars. And to continue with a bit more....
Johann Pascher stated:
<<
"I did discuses this with different accordion builders and they all agree
that in the long run it will be hard to find suppliers for celluloid,
and the day may come that it is not possible to work with this type of
material at all, because of European low.>>
SJN stated:
<<
I'll do you one better. As time passes, it will hard to find accordion factories as the instrument continues to lose it's mass popularity in favor of electronics. Look at the age group that is maintaining sales both new and old. Youngsters were once found predominately in teaching studios. Now its oldsters. I've experienced the height and decline of this instrument, as I started learning the accordion in 1939 and began teaching in 1953. I read about the how it's 'coming back' but this is marketing hype to encourage sales and maybe a few to learn. This would be nice but the world has changed in its desires. Even symphonies are expiring. The composers today are not scoring for live orchestras but for electronic 'virtual' instruments and effects. The movies and TV producers prefer this and encourage it for it eliminates costs in hiring musicians. The composer of the future will be a fellow at a keyboard and computer with sampled sounds and a sequencer and recording direct to CD. Its that now but not entirely....yet. And yes, there will be those who are purist at heart and want to learn and excel in an instrument. But they will be in the minority.
--
Navoyosky
********************************************************************
ginny wrote 17 years ago
Thanks Steve - <summarize for usenet - very nice article primarily on celloid.>
Although I don't expect to do that sort of work, it's informative.
