Converting a PA to a CBA

[losthobos]

Mat had that two reed box commissioned for him to match Ernie Felices Sonola SS4...LM in Cassotto..
Maxims music are making a copy of the legendary SS4 now...I consider buying one regularly but always practicing to much to find the time to pull the trigger

 

[debra]

I would not call it a "CBA version" when the reed block geometry is quite different and consequently the button levers are all straight as opposed to crooked levers for bastardized PA versions. The Morino Artistes (at least the 4-reed versions) have very direct action. I have an Excelsior CBA with reedblock geometry probably similar to PA versions, it has fat crooked levers that not only weigh more than the mechanics of an Artiste but also lead to dead buttons on the keyboard at the left and right and a mushier action on the ends of the instruments.

I am not sure that the bass side of the Morino VI has a CBA equivalent. At least we established that the Morino IV isn't comparable to the Morino Artiste VI (a 4-reed CBA with a 5-reed standard bass). I should think that a CBA Gola also is not merely a bastardized PA instrument. Both Giovanni Gola and Venanzio Morino were Italians from a period where Italians were very much proud of their CBA tradition.

What I can say from working on Morino VI accordions and my Artiste X is that the Artiste has a treble side that is very much like that of the Morino VI, with the same reed block positions, the same awkward slider registers, but just more notes on the reed blocks. The bass sides of the PA and CBA versions are completely identical. It really is simply a Morino VI bass side, with MIII (in C griff configuration), with the highest D and Eb that only play in the standard bass (because there are no E and Eb buttons in the MIII at the high end), etc., etc. all completely *identical*.
It may have been different when Hohner made the accordions for the M and D series, but once Excelsior took over the production the PA and CBA versions were virtually the same except for the number of treble notes (and thus different reed blocks, but in the same position in both versions. It is only for the accordions without melody bass that the Morino and Artiste series were completely different, with the Artiste not even having a cassotto (which was later remedied by introducing the Hohner Romanie accordions, which were what the Artiste should have been from the get go.

 

[Eurojazz]

@debra I had no clue Exclesior took over Hohner at that time, what years did that happen?
Of course, I know Pigini took over Excelsior some 20 years ago now but this brings me to a point/idea and perhaps it's already out there. I'd love to know if so...
Wouldn't it be great to have a timeline of the main brands and who they built for depending on the market/years? i.e. Borsini building for Modern, Victoria for Titano, then Pigini for Titano. Zero Sette for Petosa and Giulietti, Bugari, etc... I think it could be interesting to see it in a timeline and could be really insightful in what kind of accordion to expect depending on the decade.
I don't have enough personal knowledge to do this but maybe someone out there does? Or it could be a team effort?
In any case, I think it could be valuable and communicate clearly some of the transitional periods between brands and "sub-brands".

 

[dak]

It may have been different when Hohner made the accordions for the M and D series, but once Excelsior took over the production the PA and CBA versions were virtually the same except for the number of treble notes (and thus different reed blocks, but in the same position in both versions. It is only for the accordions without melody bass that the Morino and Artiste series were completely different, with the Artiste not even having a cassotto (which was later remedied by introducing the Hohner Romanie accordions, which were what the Artiste should have been from the get go.

Well, I blame Hohner and Excelsior for ruining your opinion of Morino's craftsmanship and his design of the Artiste series. At some point of time I need to pay you a visit with some specimen he is actually responsible for. I've played an Artiste VIN for a few minutes and looked under its grille and I'd agree with you that I would not want one. But that is not the "Artiste from the get go". I think there are even older "Artiste" models than the Artiste D series which is the culmination of Morino's work, and I have no idea how they hold up. And of course there are also instruments from Morino's time as a brick-and-mortar shop in Geneva.

There's also the clear impression that the Artiste VID was high in the order of things but not intended to compete with the Artiste XD, not just because of the free bass (the Artiste IXD has one as well, but has only 3 instead of 4 chord button rows). It not just has 5 reed banks in the treble and true cassotto, it also seems to have the reed plates typically mounted on leather gaskets instead of waxed in like all other instruments.

Several key distinctions and constructions disappeared in the later series that were moved out of Trossingen only after Morino's death (not just after his retirement), so it's hard to blame him for it. I think also the "Umlenkstimmstock", clearly present in my Artiste VID, did not make it into later models.

All in all the model lineup is not the same before and afterwards.

 

[debra]

Well, I blame Hohner and Excelsior for ruining your opinion of Morino's craftsmanship and his design of the Artiste series. At some point of time I need to pay you a visit with some specimen he is actually responsible for. I've played an Artiste VIN for a few minutes and looked under its grille and I'd agree with you that I would not want one. But that is not the "Artiste from the get go". I think there are even older "Artiste" models than the Artiste D series which is the culmination of Morino's work, and I have no idea how they hold up. And of course there are also instruments from Morino's time as a brick-and-mortar shop in Geneva.

There's also the clear impression that the Artiste VID was high in the order of things but not intended to compete with the Artiste XD, not just because of the free bass (the Artiste IXD has one as well, but has only 3 instead of 4 chord button rows). It not just has 5 reed banks in the treble and true cassotto, it also seems to have the reed plates typically mounted on leather gaskets instead of waxed in like all other instruments.

Several key distinctions and constructions disappeared in the later series that were moved out of Trossingen only after Morino's death (not just after his retirement), so it's hard to blame him for it. I think also the "Umlenkstimmstock", clearly present in my Artiste VID, did not make it into later models.

All in all the model lineup is not the same before and afterwards.

I know very well that the Hohner Morino and Artiste lines changed drastically when they were moved from Hohner in Germany (Trossingen) to Excelsior in Italy. The main difference of course was instead of producing under the close watch of Morino himself Hohner just looked for the cheapest way to get a Morino-like line of accordions built elsewhere, for a lower cost than what Hohner could do themselves.
I'm certainly not unhappy with my Artiste made by Excelsior, except perhaps for the weight, and for the fact that to both keep the cost down and to keep enough of a quality difference between the Morino and the Gola the Morino and Artiste only got tipo-a-mano reeds and not a-mano.
I have no direct experience with the Morino from before the move to Italy, except for the M series, of which I have a friend playing a VI M and two other friends playing a IV M, both of which I have worked on (and one with Hohner reeds and the other with Bugari reeds).
All these instruments are not bad at all. My favorite (which I also worked on) is the Morino Artiste VI S Cassotto prototype a friend of mine has. That accordion was essentially a prototype that did not make it into production as an Artiste but essentially became the Romandie.

 

[McSqueeze]

Hello, new member here. Wondering if it's possible to convert an existing PA into a CBA.
I seem to gravitate and like the sound of the PAs from the 60's or older but I'm having a hard time finding a CBA of that era. I love that AVD Excelsior sound, Leon Sash's Giulietti, Alice Hall, or Mat Mathews's Hohner etc...The closest sound that I can think of that today is RG's Victoria.
The CBA seem hard to come by...hence my question. Obviously it would take a look of work but I wonder if it's remotely possible from a technical/luthier standpoint.
I appreciate thoughts/comments/ or even leads to CBA of that era. Many thanks!

PM sent.