Do We Need all those "Bells and Whistles"?

[Keymn]

I think with the digital age in accordions we are getting trapped into spending more time learning the controls then improving our accordion skills. I am awed at those VAccordion experts whom do great things with the left hand orchestrations and lightning fast right hand. I believe these accordionist learned these skills with hard work and training on an acoustic.
When I ordered my fr4x, spent lots of time listening to those YouTube videos. Received my fr4x and yes, I already had my 7 program banks planned out for different styles of music. Spent hours! I think I was "stereotyped" trying to duplicate those YouTube sets.
A week ago I decided to start over at factory settings and "do my own thing". Setup only 14 user programs. Simple left hand orchestra bass/chord/accordion combination on all my registers. 14 different accordion/orchestra on right hand. My clients seem to like what I am selling. After all, when hired, they expect accordion sounds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JerryPH]

There is NOTHING wrong with limiting yourself to even a single accordion sound on a "V". However, as many people playing their accordions, there are different ways of playing it.

For my first video, I made a basic bandoneon sound and stuck basically to it through out the song. Short of some basic drum sounds from the left hand, it was very basic. I think it was nice, I know others liked it too.

My next video will be a little more complex, adding in at least 2 2 instruments (accordion and possibly organ) and full support in the form of a drum and accompaniment section from a BK-7m arranger. I have played it before, and I feel it is equally as nice, but it adds sonic variety, it adds the "one man band" effect and it can add some excitement too the program.

Likely the video after that will include an arranger, a V-Accordion, orchestral sounds and acoustic accordion blended in.

The question is... "do we need all those bells and whistles?". OF COURSE NOT... but I *want* them, I like having the variety, I like doing something slightly different from everyone else, I like being able to express myself a touch differently because I am a little different and I want that to show through my music when I play.

For me, it's all about being me... simple or complex... and having all the options available to me to do so.

 

[Keymn]

There is NOTHING wrong with limiting yourself to even a single accordion sound on a V. However, as many people playing their accordions, there are different ways of playing it.

For my first video, I made a basic bandoneon sound and stuck basically to it through out the song. Short of some basic drum sounds from the left hand, it was very basic. I think it was nice, I know others liked it too.

My next video will be a little more complex, adding in at least 2 2 instruments (accordion and possibly organ) and full support in the form of a drum and accompaniment section from a BK-7m arranger. I have played it before, and I feel it is equally as nice, but it adds sonic variety, it adds the one man band effect and it can add some excitement too the program.

Likely the video after that will include an arranger, a V-Accordion, orchestral sounds and acoustic accordion blended in.

The question is... do we need all those bells and whistles?. OF COURSE NOT... but I *want* them, I like having the variety, I like doing something slightly different from everyone else, I like being able to express myself a touch differently because I am a little different and I want that to show through my music when I play.

For me, its all about being me... simple or complex... and having all the options available to me to do so.

What amazes me is playing the scat voices during an accordion performance, especially tableside. Makes them smile. .
My first of many Oktoberfest gigs is Monday night at a beachfront beer pub. They may or may not have power. If not, run on generator. Should be fun. Wear my Lederhosen.
I have learned too, to be different. I use the many Schlager beats on Korg arranger, not just oompa and Polka.

Just purchased kickincountryaccordion.com . My roots are also with classic country of the 50S, 60s, 70s, 80s...
Not sure what I am going to do with this domain? May become useful When I move to Phoenix in 2018!
Yet, always put on a smile and be energetic while we are still able. Enjoy the ride!

 

[JerryPH]

Venue makes a huge difference in what and how to play. If you are in a small restaurant and strolling, then with the 4X-8X you can still have a near full one-man-band, but if in a larger venue/restaurant/stage, more equipment makes for a more entertaining and varied experience for the people there.

I've done the lederhosen thing and in the past even just with the big Hohner Morino to an Octoberfest gig (many moons ago), it's FUN, but if given a choice, I prefer the black pants/white shirt when playing because I don't paint myself in to a stylistic corner, even at European style events.

I like both kinds of setups, especially more so now with the V-accordion, it does more with less, and much more with "more"... lol

I love my bells and whistles! :ch

Good luck at your gig, I hope they have their power back by then, and if not, you will do just as great anyway, as long as they open for business.

 

[Keymn]

Venue makes a huge difference in what and how to play. If you are in a small restaurant and strolling, then with the 4X-8X you can still have a near full one-man-band, but if in a larger venue/restaurant/stage, more equipment makes for a more entertaining and varied experience for the people there.

Ive done the lederhosen thing and in the past even just with the big Hohner Morino to an Octoberfest gig (many moons ago), its FUN, but if given a choice, I prefer the black pants/white shirt when playing because I dont paint myself in to a stylistic corner, even at European style events.

I like both kinds of setups, especially more so now with the V-accordion, it does more with less, and much more with more... lol

I love my bells and whistles! :ch

Good luck at your gig, I hope they have their power back by then, and if not, you will do just as great anyway, as long as they open for business.

I always get those last minute song requests too, a couple days before the gig (even when I request any special songs when I contract). I agree you need all the variations for the different genres. Like Saturdays cocktail gig, Fred Astaire music... :hb

 

[kep]

I guess it all comes to the simple question: how to play a piece the best?
V-Accordion gives me more tools to fulfill this goal, more than an acoustic accordion. It doesnt need to use all the bells&whistles, perhaps 1%, but every time this 1% will be different.

Here is an excellent essay to the topic by Richard Noel:

How a V-Accordion Can Alter Your Playing

bakersfieldaccordion
May 24, 2013

In the several years that I have owned a v-accordion, Ive realized that I have adjusted to the v-accordion in many ways, and I thought Id share some of these factors with other v-accordionists.

These changes are most relevant for those who think of the v-accordion as an orchestral instrument rather than as an alternative acoustic accordion. When I play the v-accordion as an acoustic accordion, most of these factors are less relevant.

1. Bellows Control. You may have to alter your use of the bellows in order to make the v-accordion sound like the orchestral instruments you are emulating. A one-style-fits-all approach to playing all of the various orchestral instruments just doesnt make sense to me, although I will be the first to admit that it is not easy to change ones techniques according to the emulated instrument. Sometimes you need to accent notes differently, other times you need to keep the bellows softer if you want a particular sound from an orchestral instrument.

2. Touch Sensitivity. It can cause you to be aware of how hard you are pressing notes in order to utilize percussion effects, note-bending effects, and to play velocity-sensitive instruments. Being conscious of how hard you attack notes adds another dimension to how you play the instrument. If you habitually press the accordion keys very hard, for example, you will not be able to effectively use the note-bending feature.

3. Altered Arrangements. It can cause you to change your arrangements to adapt to orchestral instruments. What sounds good on the accordion may not work as well when using orchestral voices, or you may just want to create a more interesting voicing than available on an acoustic accordion. You may also have to alter your accordion arrangements when the v-accordion does not allow you to use a traditional accordion technique, such as the bellows shake (yes, some may be able to do this, but for many of us the bellows shake is extremely difficult on the v-accordion). You may find yourself strumming to create a guitar sound; using vibrato to hold a violin note, etc.

4. Expanded Repertoire. You may enlarge your repertoire to consider playing songs that you would not have thought of without the availability of orchestral voices. Thus Spake Zarathustra, for example is not one that I would play on the acoustic accordion, but it works well on the v-accordion.

5. Other Techniques. You may want to use other left-hand techniques, such as walking the bass, to take advantage of the orchestral bass options. Or learn to play using in a high note mode while comping with the lower notes. Or creating a percussion pattern with the bass that emulates a drummer.

6. Longer phrasing. You can play much longer phrases without fear of breaking the phrase with a bellows change. This of course depends on how you set the bellows controls, but in general it is possible to play much longer phrases. Many v-accordionists appreciate this characteristic.

7. Music Conceptualization. It can cause you to change the way you think about the music you are playing. If Im using a sax, for example, Im thinking how would a sax player approach this piece. Its not just technique, but how you approach songs.

Im sure there are more examples that others can think of. In a way, the v-accordion makes an already-complex instrument even more so. I suppose thats one reason I never seem to tire of playing and experimenting with it. I cannot imagine ever mastering all of the nuances of sound that we can create on the v-accordion, but i enjoy the adventure.

Richard Noel

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rolandv-accordions/conversations/messages/20672

 

[Keymn]

I guess it all comes to the simple question: how to play a piece the best?
V-Accordion gives me more tools to fulfill this goal, more than an acoustic accordion. It doesnt need to use all the bells&whistles, perhaps 1%, but every time this 1% will be different.

Here is an excellent essay to the topic by Richard Noel:

How a V-Accordion Can Alter Your Playing

bakersfieldaccordion
May 24, 2013

In the several years that I have owned a v-accordion, Ive realized that I have adjusted to the v-accordion in many ways, and I thought Id share some of these factors with other v-accordionists.

These changes are most relevant for those who think of the v-accordion as an orchestral instrument rather than as an alternative acoustic accordion. When I play the v-accordion as an acoustic accordion, most of these factors are less relevant.

1. Bellows Control. You may have to alter your use of the bellows in order to make the v-accordion sound like the orchestral instruments you are emulating. A one-style-fits-all approach to playing all of the various orchestral instruments just doesnt make sense to me, although I will be the first to admit that it is not easy to change ones techniques according to the emulated instrument. Sometimes you need to accent notes differently, other times you need to keep the bellows softer if you want a particular sound from an orchestral instrument.

2. Touch Sensitivity. It can cause you to be aware of how hard you are pressing notes in order to utilize percussion effects, note-bending effects, and to play velocity-sensitive instruments. Being conscious of how hard you attack notes adds another dimension to how you play the instrument. If you habitually press the accordion keys very hard, for example, you will not be able to effectively use the note-bending feature.

3. Altered Arrangements. It can cause you to change your arrangements to adapt to orchestral instruments. What sounds good on the accordion may not work as well when using orchestral voices, or you may just want to create a more interesting voicing than available on an acoustic accordion. You may also have to alter your accordion arrangements when the v-accordion does not allow you to use a traditional accordion technique, such as the bellows shake (yes, some may be able to do this, but for many of us the bellows shake is extremely difficult on the v-accordion). You may find yourself strumming to create a guitar sound; using vibrato to hold a violin note, etc.

4. Expanded Repertoire. You may enlarge your repertoire to consider playing songs that you would not have thought of without the availability of orchestral voices. Thus Spake Zarathustra, for example is not one that I would play on the acoustic accordion, but it works well on the v-accordion.

5. Other Techniques. You may want to use other left-hand techniques, such as walking the bass, to take advantage of the orchestral bass options. Or learn to play using in a high note mode while comping with the lower notes. Or creating a percussion pattern with the bass that emulates a drummer.

6. Longer phrasing. You can play much longer phrases without fear of breaking the phrase with a bellows change. This of course depends on how you set the bellows controls, but in general it is possible to play much longer phrases. Many v-accordionists appreciate this characteristic.

7. Music Conceptualization. It can cause you to change the way you think about the music you are playing. If Im using a sax, for example, Im thinking how would a sax player approach this piece. Its not just technique, but how you approach songs.

Im sure there are more examples that others can think of. In a way, the v-accordion makes an already-complex instrument even more so. I suppose thats one reason I never seem to tire of playing and experimenting with it. I cannot imagine ever mastering all of the nuances of sound that we can create on the v-accordion, but i enjoy the adventure.

Richard Noel

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rolandv-accordions/conversations/messages/20672

There is a place for the one man band sound and the Strolling accordion. I would starve NOT doing French Bistro, Italian or Oktoberfest with appropriate outfit. Richard Noel and Dale Matthis have the themed look in many of their gigs. In my case, when hired for a theme gig, all they ask is for accordion and appropriate outfit. They careless what type of accordion. Although, in most cases after performing with a VAccordion they are sure impressed.

I Think Eye candy is most important to a gig. Booked over 30+ Oktoberfest events. Wear the goatskin Lederhosen, feather in hat, long ankle stockings. It is a necessity and on my contract.

For example, I was to do a French theme today. But due to IRMA power outage it was cancelled. No problem, they immediately booked me next month for an Oktoberfest theme. If you have all those different user programs for a particular style/theme, why not wear the hat! I think it is more fun having the audience with you, then self satisfaction of the Bells and Whistles.
Headlined a show at an Samuel Adams Oktoberfest in Miami. No one over 40 in the audience. At that time my FR7 was plugged into a large concert sound system. With the 4 piece band backing me up it was like a rock concert playing Polkas and German music. On my breaks went into the VIP room for photos taken with individuals and groupies.

We got great accordions with unlimited sounds and styles. Let us show the world the potential. Give them a good show!
Larry Roberts

 

[AccordionUprising]

Just purchased kickincountryaccordion.com . My roots are also with classic country of the 50S, 60s, 70s, 80s...
Not sure what I am going to do with this domain? May become useful When I move to Phoenix in 2018!

Tangent: Most of the country and western accordionists Ive come across (150+) were from the 1930s and especially the 1940s. Once the Nashville sound got going they fell out. But theres tons of western swing players who recorded a lot.

 

[Keymn]

Just purchased kickincountryaccordion.com . My roots are also with classic country of the 50S, 60s, 70s, 80s...
Not sure what I am going to do with this domain? May become useful When I move to Phoenix in 2018!

Tangent: Most of the country and western accordionists Ive come across (150+) were from the 1930s and especially the 1940s. Once the Nashville sound got going they fell out. But theres tons of western swing players who recorded a lot.

I did four songs in Nashville with studio musicians in the early 70S. One was a one hit wonder that went nowhere. In the studio then, upright bass, steel guitar, open string flat top, drums, electric guitar. They backed up my vocals. Studio had a harpsichord which I dubbed in. It was a good experience then where I learned to be simple to this day. I used no accordion, even though I brought it along.
If you look back, in the 60S, Gary Lewis and the Playboys had a Cordovox player in the band but never recorded it in a studio.
Now with the fr4x,8x you can create the Nashville sound of the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s... Nice fiddle, fair pedal steel and pick in guitars. Korg arranger has some nice country backing styles. BK7m may have some good styles for this too.
I did a test performance in a German Restaurant(of all places), the Bob Wills song Faded Love. Used a basic country medium beat swing on the Korg. Used fiddle, Accordion and pedal steel sounds on fr4x. It was amazingly well received!
How would your audience react if you played Stairway to Heaven on the accordion? I am tempted! Maybe Play it with a Schlager beat?
I know a Traditional German accordionist whom plays, smoke on the Water and A Lady GaGa song. It is noted in many of the reviews.

 

[JerryPH]

Which goes a long way in proving that if you are good enough you can play any genre on ANY instrument. At the age of 24, I recorded Minuet in G Minor in a disco/metallic format nd it was a lot of fun and did sound great. I took the idea from the movie Electric Dreams, just to see if I could do it, and I think I did well... lol

 

[Keymn]

Which goes a long way in proving that if you are good enough you can play any genre on ANY instrument. At the age of 24, I recorded Minuet in G Minor in a disco/metallic format nd it was a lot of fun and did sound great. I took the idea from the movie Electric Dreams, just to see if I could do it, and I think I did well... lol

We all have our comfort zone, stay with it! Those that keep there Day job, maybe more selective in bookings.

 

[JerryPH]

We all have our comfort zone, stay with it! Those that keep there Day job, maybe more selective in bookings.

Bah! Comfort zones are there to limit us, and if you push past them just a little, you can find a world of musical variety. If I stayed where I was comfortable, Id be playing nothing but classical music. Now I have folk music from Italy, Germany Czech Republic, France and many other place in the world. Heck I even tossed in a few American country songs and a few old USA standards from the 50s and 60s... just because.

I say to each their own, of course, but If it is fun, do it until you dont want to anymore, just have FUN!

Whats that expression... it needs more cowbell... I take it to mean add more expression or bells and whistles or whatever, just add more cowbell !! :lol:

 

[Keymn]

We all have our comfort zone, stay with it! Those that keep there Day job, maybe more selective in bookings.

Bah! Comfort zones are there to limit us, and if you push past them just a little, you can find a world of musical variety. If I stayed where I was comfortable, Id be playing nothing but classical music. Now I have folk music from Italy, Germany Czech Republic, France and many other place in the world. Heck I even tossed in a few American country songs and a few old USA standards from the 50s and 60s... just because.

I say to each their own, of course, but If it is fun, do it until you dont want to anymore, just have FUN!

Whats that expression... it needs more cowbell... I take it to mean add more expression or bells and whistles or whatever, just add more cowbell !! :lol:

I was self taught at 8 years, never played classical. You are blessed to have that background. Can you read left hand classic music? I had to give up a $1000.00 gig At Adrienne Arsht Center to another accordionist whom could.

One of My mentors plays classic country to this day as a one man band guitarist. Still uses bass pedals and a drum machine...maybe this person is in comfort zone? Maybe eventually as we age...

I just discovered an Austrian polka style beat on my Korg. Has Tuba bass. Going to use it for country classics like on the Road again, country roads ring of Fire for diversity to upcoming Oktoberfests.
At German Oktoberfests, American 60s, 70s, pop and classic country songs are played with Schlager beats. Even the German Restaurant I perform has these songs constantly playing.
At 65+, still learning!

 

[JerryPH]

We all have our comfort zone, stay with it! Those that keep there Day job, maybe more selective in bookings.

Can you read left hand classic music? I had to give up a $1000.00 gig At Adrienne Arsht Center to another accordionist whom could.

One of My mentors plays classic country to this day as a one man band guitarist. Still uses bass pedals and a drum machine...maybe this person is in comfort zone? Maybe eventually as we age.

At 65+, still learning!

Yes, reading piano music (which is basically what music for a Free Bass or classical music is. I spent several years at the Royal Conservatory of Toronto under Glen Sawich and even a few special times with Joseph Macerollo), is the easy part. Playing it... A slightly bigger challenge due to not playing for 38+ years, I had to start over everything practically from scratch. The reading came back the fastest, keyboard feel next, some technique came back, but now Im at a wall where more time is needed for any further growth, but the worst is the arthritis, nothing I can do about that, so I enjoy every note I can play from today till I cannot play anymore.

I already pushed out of my comfort zone several times, and it is easier with the FR-8X, inspirational, if I must add. The stuff I am playing is now fun, not serious. The classicals stuff, even the VERY simple stuff is always going to be serious in my mind. </QUOTE>

 

[Keymn]

Can you read left hand classic music? I had to give up a $1000.00 gig At Adrienne Arsht Center to another accordionist whom could.

One of My mentors plays classic country to this day as a one man band guitarist. Still uses bass pedals and a drum machine...maybe this person is in comfort zone? Maybe eventually as we age.

At 65+, still learning!

Yes, reading piano music (which is basically what music for a Free Bass or classical music is. I spent several years at the Royal Conservatory of Toronto under Glen Sawich and even a few special times with Joseph Macerollo), is the easy part. Playing it... A slightly bigger challenge due to not playing for 38+ years, I had to start over everything practically from scratch. The reading came back the fastest, keyboard feel next, some technique came back, but now Im at a wall where more time is needed for any further growth, but the worst is the arthritis, nothing I can do about that, so I enjoy every note I can play from today till I cannot play anymore.

I already pushed out of my comfort zone several times, and it is easier with the FR-8X, inspirational, if I must add. The stuff I am playing is now fun, not serious. The classicals stuff, even the VERY simple stuff is always going to be serious in my mind.

Glad you are enjoying the ride! As of now, I am going to keep my fr4x, hardware And Korg arranger which I am now satisfied.
Maybe if a new bk-7m model comes out, may look at it? Until then, in my comfort zone. :ch</QUOTE>

 

[JerryPH]

I still say bells and whistles are fun and often more preferable. I tested it out by recording one song yesterday. My question is, which do I prefer... the acoustic accordion only version of this song, or this version with a LOT more in the bells and whistles department? Call me a heretic, but I like this version a lot better!

<YOUTUBE id=kUc2lWcxqW8 url=></YOUTUBE>

 

[Keymn]

I still say bells and whistles are fun and often more preferable. I tested it out by recording one song yesterday. My question is, which do I prefer... the acoustic accordion only version of this song, or this version with a LOT more in the bells and whistles department? Call me a heretic, but I like this version a lot better!

<YOUTUBE id=kUc2lWcxqW8 url=></YOUTUBE>

Cool . Maybe we should change the subject to:
Let Share our Bells and Whistles.
Here is my Bells and Whistle: (I think I messed up a couple of the words)

<YOUTUBE id=eOyDahi-gNw url=></YOUTUBE>

 

[JerryPH]

Cool . Maybe we should change the subject to:
Let Share our Bells and Whistles.
Here is my Bells and Whistle: (I think I messed up a couple of the words)

<YOUTUBE id=eOyDahi-gNw url=></YOUTUBE>

Oh man, huge respect to you... first, I cannot sing, and even worse, I cannot even play and talk at the same time! When I play, I play. If I have to say something, even the act of formulating the words and my hands stop! :lol:
Great bells and whistles!

 

[Keymn]

Cool . Maybe we should change the subject to:
Let Share our Bells and Whistles.
Here is my Bells and Whistle: (I think I messed up a couple of the words)

<YOUTUBE id=eOyDahi-gNw url=></YOUTUBE>

Oh man, huge respect to you... first, I cannot sing, and even worse, I cannot even play and talk at the same time! When I play, I play. If I have to say something, even the act of formulating the words and my hands stop! :lol:
Great bells and whistles!

Ill never forget my 8th Grade music teacher. On the piano while we were singing, she would start playing another song purposely trying to confuse us.
:hb
:hb

 

[JerryPH]

Niiiice! :lol: :twisted: