Dry tuning trends

[Morne]

Regarding (L)MMM(H), I imagine in theory a classical/orchestra instrument would favour a tuning with M- and M+ equally apart so that you would still be perceived as being in tune. When I was looking at my Morino VI M I was worried (perhaps wrongly) that it would have a wet musette because of it being MMM and having registers only for either M or full MMM. At that time I always associated MMM with the French musette sound or the also wet Oberkrainer sound often associated with the LMMMH Morino V M.

I rather like the organ-like combinations you get from having an H reed and I'd much rather have that than a full MMM.

 

[debra]

Here is an example of a modern French trend, the LLMM accordion, with both bass banks of bassoon reeds in cassotto.

The box is made by Mengascini in Castelidardo for the French market. It is their F20 model, and is available in 3 other configurations, as per this link:-

https://www.mon-accordeon.com/neuf/mengascini-f20-cassotto

A friend once had a Ballone Burini with this setup. Its a specialist instrument, not as useful for general-purpose, and the dry tuning especially of the two L reeds is very important as even the smallest deviation can be heard.

 

[debra]

Regarding (L)MMM(H), I imagine in theory a classical/orchestra instrument would favour a tuning with M- and M+ equally apart so that you would still be perceived as being in tune. When I was looking at my Morino VI M I was worried (perhaps wrongly) that it would have a wet musette because of it being MMM and having registers only for either M or full MMM. At that time I always associated MMM with the French musette sound or the also wet Oberkrainer sound often associated with the LMMMH Morino V M.

I rather like the organ-like combinations you get from having an H reed and Id much rather have that than a full MMM.

The Morino with MMM is tuned much less wet than other accordions because there is no choice for MM in the registers. The MMM must blend in well with other Morinos that have just MM. To make a Morino IV go well with a Morino V or VI the MMM in the V and VI are louder with the three M reeds but not (much) wetter than the IV with just two M reeds. The MMM on these instruments is more to mask the effect of the middle M being in cassotto. A tremolo register with MM always sounds better when both M reeds are not in cassotto than when one of them is. That is also a reason why some LMMH boxes have the L and H in cassotto. Its more to have both Ms outside the cassotto than to make the H reed more mellow by placing it in cassotto. (People dont use the H reed to have a mellow sound...))

 

[Geronimo]

Regarding (L)MMM(H), I imagine in theory a classical/orchestra instrument would favour a tuning with M- and M+ equally apart so that you would still be perceived as being in tune.

The problem with that is that then the arithmetic average of the M+/M- reed frequencies will beat against the frequency of the M reed and because of its origin from two independent reeds there is no significant physical incentive to pull it into resonance. So this makes a consistent sound quality over slow scales very tricky to achieve.

 

[Geronimo]

Regarding (L)MMM(H), I imagine in theory a classical/orchestra instrument would favour a tuning with M- and M+ equally apart so that you would still be perceived as being in tune. When I was looking at my Morino VI M I was worried (perhaps wrongly) that it would have a wet musette because of it being MMM and having registers only for either M or full MMM. At that time I always associated MMM with the French musette sound or the also wet Oberkrainer sound often associated with the LMMMH Morino V M.

I rather like the organ-like combinations you get from having an H reed and Id much rather have that than a full MMM.

The Morino with MMM is tuned much less wet than other accordions because there is no choice for MM in the registers. The MMM must blend in well with other Morinos that have just MM. To make a Morino IV go well with a Morino V or VI the MMM in the V and VI are louder with the three M reeds but not (much) wetter than the IV with just two M reeds.

Well, thats cheating. The Morinos with their distinctive sound signature are soloist or mixed ensemble instruments. But since Hohner does not really have much else in that price segment to offer (the Imperator would have been a similar quality offering with a distinctively different signature but has been discontinued long, long ago), of course they want to be able to equip a whole accordion orchestra with Morinos. Which does not make sense. Not even for Oberkrainer (and the original ensembles did not have a whole lineup of accordions).

The MMM on these instruments is more to mask the effect of the middle M being in cassotto. A tremolo register with MM always sounds better when both M reeds are not in cassotto than when one of them is. That is also a reason why some LMMH boxes have the L and H in cassotto. Its more to have both Ms outside the cassotto than to make the H reed more mellow by placing it in cassotto. (People dont use the H reed to have a mellow sound...))

Well, my main instrument has all of MMM in the filling. It does offer a separate MM distinctively shallower than standard with Hohner in spite of actually consisting of M+ and M- reeds (which are operated by the same lever). The shallow MMM all out of cassotto combination is actually pretty rare: the instruments where one would make MMM shallow are handwavingly used more for classic/jazz than folk stuff and then they almost always have a true cassotto which eats at least two reed ranks.

 

[maugein96]

A friend once had a Ballone Burini with this setup. Its a specialist instrument, not as useful for general-purpose, and the dry tuning especially of the two L reeds is very important as even the smallest deviation can be heard.

They certainly dont seem to have strayed far from the French market in CBA form, and I would imagine keeping all those bassoon reeds in perfect tune wouldnt do much for their popularity.

First time I ever heard of them was in a French accordeon magazine which appears to have since gone out of print. Cavagnolo had a feature on them and they were raving about the improved bassoon sound they offered.

They probably arent worth considering unless you absolutely must have that double bassoon sound. I think Cavagnolo were under the impression that they were onto a winner, but as I said in a previous post, French accordions have never really appealed to players elsewhere. These jazz inspired models seem to be no different in that respect.

If you take a player like Art Van Damme, straight away any model named after him will have a far greater appeal to the vast majority of accordionists, who are PA players, and jazz is a worldwide concept. French jazz accordion will just never have the same appeal, and it seems that makers like Cavagnolo are not really interested in anybody elses accordion world. Made in France = played in France, and I suppose they have made quite a lot of money out of it.