Excalibur and E.Soprani....same accordion under two names?

[gerardo1000]

Dingo 40, Chickers, Jim D., happy to understand that you have the money to say what you say. I don't. Maybe you should have more comprehension for people who cannot afford what you can, instead of lecturing them with your old "saws" and telling them that what they got is garbage...it is clear even to me that I didn't buy the best quality instrument, maybe it escaped your mind that I am not wealthy? Besides, what kind of joy do you feel in telling me that what is already purchased and is going to be delivered to me in the next days is a piece of junk? Maybe you should learn from other members in this forum who expressed some concerns with chinese made accordions but, still, gave me useful suggestions and symphatized with me, and hope that I will be happy with my purchase...

 

[Chickers]

GERARDO
I am very sorry that my comments concerning Chinese products was offensive to you.
No, I do not enjoy being antagonistic, nor do I enjoy criticizing others for their opinions and decisions.
I was merely pointing out that I respect some of the views of some of the folks for "telling it like it is".
It a wrong assumption to say I am "wealthy" by not wanting to support certain markets. I am not, I am a worker bee.
We all have choices.
You have made your choice to purchase what you feel is a good value, and that's great. I wish you success, and happiness in
playing your new accordion. By the way, personally, I think the E. Saprani looks like a beauty, and I think Liberty Bellows is
a good dealer.
Happy playing
CHICKERS

 

[Dingo40]

Gerardo,
What brought this on??
Lecturing ..., you? Wouldn't dream of it!
Was I talking specificity to you?
Where does it say you should buy the most expensive instrument??
On what basis are you making assumptions about my finances? ( I've already posted on another thread that my overall expenditure on all my instruments, averaged over 50 years, has totalled to less than 65c per day: hardly sumptuous or even extravagant!?)
Sorry that you've obviously taken my generalised comments amiss?
A little more restraint, please.
May you enjoy your purchase and perhaps eventually tell us how well it went !

 

[debra]

Dingo 40, Chickers, Jim D., happy to understand that you have the money to say what you say. I don't. Maybe you should have more comprehension for people who cannot afford what you can, instead of lecturing them with your old "saws" and telling them that what they got is garbage...it is clear even to me that I didn't buy the best quality instrument, maybe it escaped your mind that I am not wealthy? Besides, what kind of joy do you feel in telling me that what is already purchased and is going to be delivered to me in the next days is a piece of junk? Maybe you should learn from other members in this forum who expressed some concerns with chinese made accordions but, still, gave me useful suggestions and symphatized with me, and hope that I will be happy with my purchase...

I'm sure none of us were assuming you had more money than you have and all of us were trying to give you advice on the best possible buy for the amount you have. The reality of things is that for the same amount of money you are better off with an older Italian-made accordion (preferably between 20 and 40 years old) than with a new one made in China. A well-made and well-maintained Italian accordion that is 30 years old will outlast a Chinese accordion made today.
We are all hoping (and the Italians are dreading) that the Chinese accordions will improve significantly over the next decade or so, but as it stands today the situation is not (yet) in favor of the Chinese accordions.

 

[gerardo1000]

I'm sure none of us were assuming you had more money than you have and all of us were trying to give you advice on the best possible buy for the amount you have. The reality of things is that for the same amount of money you are better off with an older Italian-made accordion (preferably between 20 and 40 years old) than with a new one made in China. A well-made and well-maintained Italian accordion that is 30 years old will outlast a Chinese accordion made today.
We are all hoping (and the Italians are dreading) that the Chinese accordions will improve significantly over the next decade or so, but as it stands today the situation is not (yet) in favor of the Chinese accordions.

There are very few vintage Italian CBAs on the market, most Italian accordions that show up on sale have piano keys, and they are massive both in size and in weight. The lightest pre-owned CBAs that I have seen weight at least 22 lbs... Unfortunately I can only play smaller and lighter instruments, due to a condition with my back... also, many are sold by private individuals and there is little way to know if they need repairs, and here in Michigan after the Castiglione shop closed years ago, to find an accordion tech is practically impossible... but generally speaking, midway in this post, I said that I finally spoke with Liberty Bellows and made the decision to buy a chinese E.Soprani from them, and explained why. And still, after that, I continued to receive comments (not from you and from others, but from some) that what I purchased and was going to receive it's a piece of junk. What's the point to repeat something, that was already made abundantly clear, even after I purchased the accordion ? Apart from spoiling the pleasure ?

 

[Tom]

I'm sorry your experience here was unpleasant for you Gerardo, that your experience with the new accordion is stellar and you come back for advice from everyone here. In my experience the people here are well meaning and try to be helpful, although it may appear that at times the disdain for Chinese accordions overcomes the need for decorum. Best of luck with the E, I imagine you are dying to get your hands on it!

 

[debra]

There are very few vintage Italian CBAs on the market, most Italian accordions that show up on sale have piano keys, ...

Sorry, I did not focus enough on the location issue. How common CBA accordions are (and thus how many you can expect to be on the local used market) is very dependent on where you are. In France, Belgium, Scandinavian countries (and others) you would find many CBAs in the used market. In the US CBA is a lot less common.
Don't worry about the comments on your decision to get the E.Soprani. While intrinsically it may have some quality issues it will have had quality control in Italy, and from Liberty Bellows. And should the accordion develop some issues you can get service from Liberty as well. It is very important to ensure you can get service because accordions are complex instruments and you need an expert to help you out when something goes wrong.

 

[Vladimir M.]

maybe it escaped your mind that I am not wealthy?

Dear Gerardo,

wealth does not count only in the amount of material goods and money. A person's real wealth must include contentment, happiness and many real friends. I am a resident of a state in Eastern Europe that has transformed from a totalitarian system to a democracy. Although we have freedom, people are currently too focused on material wealth. So, dear Gerado1000, how do I see your purchase of an accordion from my point of view?

• it's great that you bought the instrument you wanted and dreamed of and:
• when you buy it, it will be a really good instrument just because it will be only and merely yours!
• There is no perfect instrument without small weaknesses or little flaws, even players on the most expensive instruments (Hohner Gola) admit their weaknesses in weak moments and:
• therefore, if you have your Accordion in your hands, then don't look at other instruments and try a very difficult thing: merge with yours instrument!
• There are many locations in the world where players, even with very limited possibilities (in terms of technical and sound quality of the instrument), can play amazingly incredible things. This is because:
• they merge with their instrument in perfect consonance of the harmony of their soul, spirit, fantasy, inventiveness, which they transform into the work of the muscles of the hands and fingers in the control of the instrument…
• …and that's why the best accordion will be just that yours. At least during the first honey weeks and years ...
  
• And then you will see what next ...

I wish you much pleasure with the new instrument.

Best regards, Vladimir

 

[oldbayan]

Reading this thread, a couple of old " saws" come to mind:
"The quality remains long after the price is forgotten."
And:
"Always buy the very best you can: buying cheap is false economy."
?

This is a "sound" advice.
My dad bought his first Hohner diatonic accordion in 1952 for $49 new. Back then he was earning about $20 per week, so you can imagine how much money it was to spend the equivalent of 2 1/2 weeks of wages on a squeezebox! Like a $3K or $4K expense today. He played it extensively for 60 years, and I keep playing it today! In 60 years he had to replace one reed plate and had it tuned twice. It sure was worth buying the best he could at the time.

 

[Siegmund]

Given the way this thread has gone... could I suggest that we (and by "we" I mean "those of you with considerable experience on different instruments", which I don't have yet) put together some type of sticky post / blog / whatever, with recommendations for how someone on a budget should proceed?

There seems to be some fairly standard advice for someone looking to spend, say, between 2k and 4k -- "buy a refurbished accordion from Western Europe a few decades old". At the 1k price point, refurbished from Eastern Europe is barely in the cards, and at 500, you are down to scrounging around garage sales.

This is a real barrier to entry, when people can get "Chinese-quality," but new, starter guitars and flutes and electronic keyboards for $100.

 

[Tom]

Given the way this thread has gone... could I suggest that we (and by "we" I mean "those of you with considerable experience on different instruments", which I don't have yet) put together some type of sticky post / blog / whatever, with recommendations for how someone on a budget should proceed?

There seems to be some fairly standard advice for someone looking to spend, say, between 2k and 4k -- "buy a refurbished accordion from Western Europe a few decades old". At the 1k price point, refurbished from Eastern Europe is barely in the cards, and at 500, you are down to scrounging around garage sales.

This is a real barrier to entry, when people can get "Chinese-quality," but new, starter guitars and flutes and electronic keyboards for $100.

Actually, in the US it is quite possible to get a good quality, used accordion in the $400 - $500 range. I don't know about other countries.

Problem is, for every accordion available in this range there are 10 others that will require too much work to be worth it, and our aspiring accordionist won't be able to tell the difference. The only true advice in this case is to (somehow) find a seasoned player to help with the selection process. The good used sccordions are there, but you have to be able to find them.

And good quality, new, artisanal accordions can be purchased from Italy in the $2000 - $4000 range. This I do know.

 

[donn]

Out of curiosity I had a look at the craigslist online local market, and found surprisingly few accordions today. A handful, where several years ago there might have been a couple dozen. Nothing that looked real good to me.

 

[gerardo1000]

Out of curiosity I had a look at the craigslist online local market, and found surprisingly few accordions today. A handful, where several years ago there might have been a couple dozen. Nothing that looked real good to me.

And...if you live in the States very very very few chromatic button accordions in the market...

 

[Tom]

Took a look myself around Wisconsin today. This is the most interesting, a cool looking antique for $325. Potentially a restoration project, depending on condition. Also a Lo Duca with some potential. I think you're right, though, not as many as there used to be. No cba. Maybe the accordion has been (re)discovered.

vintage antique Karpek accordian - musical instruments - by owner -...

This is a beauty. Made in Milwaukee at Karpek accordion mfg co.. From the 20's we think.

milwaukee.craigslist.org

 

[gerardo1000]

That is the main issue for a person who lives in Michigan, like me, with no accordion stores and no repairmen. So, if I want a CBA and I look for used ones, I find very few of them on line, mainly on reverb or E Bay, some from individuals who are selling the accordion of their grandparents and I have no idea abut its condition, or,often, from sellers from Ukraine that sell vintage russian bayan accordions at low prices, but again, you buy it blind and if the accordion has problems, you do not know what to do, and if you ship it for repair out of state, that defeats the purpose of saving money buying used. That is the main reason why I, finally, decided to spend 1,200.00 on a new CBA, yes made in China but al least brand new and backed by a reputable accordion store. If I love CBA and decide to continue my learning, I can always trade in the E.Soprani in the future and get a better quality instrument. If I do not stick with the CBA, I can re-sell it and at the end I will lose just a few hundred dollars. All the forum members that told me that I was doing the wrong thing, and told me that I was getting junk and that I should have bought used, are probably from countries where CBAs are popular and accordion techs are available. It is not my case. P.S. I received the E. Soprani yesterday. I cannot vouch yet for its durability, but it has a really beautiful full sound, everything works flawlessly, as far as I can judge the intonation is spot on, and most importantly, the accordion is super responsive, all bass buttons respond without hesitation (my diatonic Compadre, for example, is a bit slower with the response of reeds). I am no expert, but the instrument seems absolutely fine, at least for now.

 

[Tom]

You did good!

 

[Tom]

Post pictures! Someday you can take the ferry over to Manitowoc and we can jam!

 

[gerardo1000]

Here are some pics

 

[Siegmund]

Sounds like you got some excellent service! Buying from overseas can involve a 2-month wait for your new toy, even if it arrives in perfect condition.

Was C-system just what happened to be available, or a conscious choice because of teacher/English text availability?

 

[gerardo1000]

Sounds like you got some excellent service! Buying from overseas can involve a 2-month wait for your new toy, even if it arrives in perfect condition.

Was C-system just what happened to be available, or a conscious choice because of teacher/English text availability?

Both C and B systems were in stock, I have to learn from scratch whatever system I choose, so more or less I tossed a coin and decided for the C system ?.