Excelsior Symphony Grand (USA) Model Number?

[John Doe]

I realized this morning that I don't actually know what model number my Excelsior "Symphony Grand" is.

It has the arched BBBWBBWBBB 10 switches on the front with the coy register descriptions. (B black, W white) It has a LLMM configuration with no cassotto or mute. The cute names for the registers don't match up since one of the L reed blocks is where the H set would normally be but Excelsior had the names deeply stamped into the metal switch surround and evidently only carried one type of the trim plate- understandable. The LLMM configuration is as manufactured. Essentially no musette.

Extended keyboard F to B.

140 bass with seven register switches.

Has an oval metal plate with US, Italian, and Great Britain patents on the keyboard and also on the "Air Flow" design and the rocker switches.

Serial number is 9807 and it is stamped "Made in America" on the metal plate and "Made in USA" on the back of the bass section.

Stampings in the celluloid are crisp and clear. No hint of a model number, or signs that one might ever have been there.

I use it quite a bit. Thanks for any help.

PS It occurs to me that it is quite possibly a "custom" construction and as such may well not have a model number per se assigned by Excelsior!

 

[JIM D.]

Sounds like you have a 1950's era 'Symphony Grand' which was the model #.
Pic's would help.

 

[John Doe]

I was curious as to whether there was a model number associated with it as well as a marketing name. "Symphony Grand" covers a lot of waterfront in terms of configurations. In the end it was probably a "Symphony Grand" with modifications as ordered by the original purchaser with no specific model number assigned- my theory at least.

I was hoping one of the knowledgeable denizens of the Accordioum Forum could confirm or deny!

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond.

Henry

 

[nagant27]

Looks like a nice accordion. How does it sound? Are the 2 lower reeds tuned in unison?

 

[John Doe]

A satisfyingly full sound. I've gotten quite used to the additional row of minor thirds- actually, truth be told, slightly to my detriment on my other accordions.

The two lower reeds are in unison and the two Ms are very close to the same.

 

[Ventura]

here is an example of why i wish every quality accordion
owned and played as a main instrument by a quality Musician
had the advantage of some Provenance...

i advise people all the time to add s signature inside the bellows area,
and perhaps the dates of stewardship of the principle added by his surivors
before the accordion is passed along into oblivion

here is a quite unusual Jazz Spec Excelsior from that "golden age"
that likely was a very special order indeed, and likely was played by a
very special player

but nothing is known.. no information was apparently passed along ?

sign your accordions people.. include a nice Photo of you playing them
for posterity included in the case when your survivors go to sell it

 

[JerryPH]

sign your accordions people.. include a nice Photo of you playing them
for posterity included in the case when your survivors go to sell it

Who in the world would want to buy an accordion I played as a kid... lol

 

[JIM D.]

This is the same but older model ------
https://www.libertybellows.com/shop...and-Piano-Accordion-LLMM-43-140-x63670421.htm

they were called Symphony 140's

 

[Walker]

Wow, what a difference two extra keys makes to the appearance of an accordion! Why is 43 keys not standard?

 

[JIM D.]

41 keys have been a standard # for full size P A accordions for more than a half century. More than
41 keys are on custom models or per order.

 

[John Doe]

This is the same but older model ------
https://www.libertybellows.com/shop...and-Piano-Accordion-LLMM-43-140-x63670421.htm

they were called Symphony 140's

Actually it's the exact same accordion, picture and all. I figured I could use the picture since I bought the accordion...

Thanks for a model number to go with the "Symphony Grand" name on the back .

Henry

 

[debra]

41 keys have been a standard # for full size P A accordions for more than a half century. More than
41 keys are on custom models or per order.

When something is considered "standard" more and more people want something different because nobody wants to be standard...
I arrange a lot of music for accordion ensembles. When I have to work around high or low notes in order to make it possible to play it with a "standard" 41 key accordion I always refer to the workaround as being for "small" accordions. I have to create these workarounds because 41 keys is still so common. It's a pity because in a lot of classical music notes higher than that are being used frequently.
I play in a quintet where the 4 normal accordions have 41, 43, 45 and 52 notes and another quintet where they have 41, 45, 45 and 64 notes. (Obviously 52 and 64 are button accordions.) So what's standard??? More and more "full-size" piano accordions nowadays have either 45 or 47 keys (E to C or Eb to C#). A lot of music does indeed only go up to high A, but then sometimes that A is with a trill, requiring either Bb or B... In my quintet with the 43 note accordion that's actually a Hohner Morino IV BS, a rare accordion (4 voice, 185 basses with MIII). (And I know, these Morino accordions were built by Excelsior.)
The same problem exists with the bass part. There too there are instruments with 34, 37 and 39 notes (and mine with 40 notes). You have to settle on something to be considered "normal" and that for me is 39 notes (C1 to D4) which is pretty "standard" on Italian bass accordions.

 

[John Doe]

More and more "full-size" piano accordions nowadays have either 45 or 47 keys (E to C or Eb to C#). A lot of music does indeed only go up to high A, but then sometimes that A is with a trill, requiring either Bb or B...

Range creep affects many instruments. There probably isn't a trumpet player extant who hasn't pushed until he popped (or his lips were flat) to play above "high C". Never enough. Sax's originally abit over two octaves B to E, "standardized" at Bb to F... then F#, then G. Tha's as keyed of course, beyond that the high end merely required chops of steel and elaborate fingering schemes. Just so other woodwinds -flutes/ clarinets et al- embouchure training and elaborate fingering schemes extend the high en, but go as high as you like- there's always that half tone higher that you now "need".

The only instrument off hand that is unaffected is the acoustic piano. Keyboards are of course off the map as far as range and voicing.

The are centuries of beautiful music within the "traditional" ranges of all these instruments- surely including accordions. More notes-"need it", or "want it", or just time and custiom marching inevitably on. Franz Joseph in the movie Amadeus complains at one point about Mozart, "Too many notes." I surely am personally enamored of Mozart as it happens, and of course through Igor S and on up to the present thimgs have moved on substantially.

But for the Emperor, perhaps there was musical contentment with the existing pallette. There's a beauty in simplicity.

 

[debra]

Range creep affects many instruments. ...

With accordions there are limitations: you can only put notes in for which the reeds are being produced. Reed production goes from C1 up to C#8. The lowest of these are almost exclusively found in bass accordions. Accordions with melody bass have the bass typically start from E1. Bayans have the treble side also start from E1. And as C#8 is the highest reed a "standard" 46-note accordion (E to C#) uses the C#8 in the piccolo register, and bayans that go up to the higher G will play everything from the highest D to G in piccolo one octave lower than you might expect. The reason is that reeds for D8 to G8 are not being produced by any reed maker.
There are a few bayans being made that have the bass side go down to C1, so all reeds in production are already being used in accordions. So there is no more "creep" to be expected.

 

[John Doe]

I fully agree. A player can address attack, release, volume dynamics, vibrato, note choices both individually and in chords, et all but it is what it is.

The accordion, sadly enough, is not in sufficient demand to generate a manufactuing base expanding beyond the current increasingly limited one. The reeds that are made are what one can work with.

Designs have incrementally refined what is over the past half century** but the biggest "innovation" was probably the Titano Tiger with it's wild slant on the keyboard and ability to play a fifth along with the primary note on the RH. Two notes per RH key!* It is sort of a collectors item and one can gauge its general acceptance by it's nom d'guerre; "Faithe's Folly". A bit underwhelming in its impact.

"But it is what it is," and for me it's more than enough.




*The alternative; simply finger a fifth note with one of the RH fingers was seemingly discounted in the interests of marketing.

**This of course discounts the EWI world of synthesizers with bellows driven keyboards arising from accordions. Frosini and Deiro would surely be in the forefront of the implementation.

 

[dak]

[Titano]

*The alternative; simply finger a fifth note with one of the RH fingers was seemingly discounted in the interests of marketing.

It's not an actual alternative: the fingered fifth is an (equally) tempered fifth, the registered fifth is a pure fifth. When the accordion is in perfect tune, the former will have a beating sound while the second one has a straight sound.

Now whether accordions hold tune well enough to make this a relevant difference is certainly debatable, but for an organ this is definitely a distinction in sound as well as in the tuning procedure to use. Does your accordion tuner know this? Hopefully.

 

[JerryPH]

I was just looking at an Excelsior Symphony Grand in supposedly "excellent" condition (aren't they all? ), on Facebook marketplace, it's in Toronto Ontario. Looks like the newer model with the gold touches (like Victor Wang on YouTube plays). They're asking $4500CA but is willing to negotiate. That's roughly $3150US. Offer the guy $3000-$3200US and I bet he would jump on it. Obviously if someone is interested they would be wise to call, hear it in action and of course get pics of the reed blocks, etc. if they are interested.

 

[John Doe]

When the accordion is in perfect tune, the former will have a beating sound while the second one has a straight sound.

Now whether accordions hold tune well enough to make this a relevant difference is certainly debatable, but for an organ this is definitely a distinction

The well-tempered accordion- shades of Bach... There just aren't that many exactingly tuned Tigers out there. Pianists are by and large stuck with equal temperament or favoring some specific key(s). Though Tom Lehrer asked his listeners to view his piano as an 88 string guitar retuning from piece to piece is sort of ungainly.

Organs- varies wildly from the Chaplains' portable reed model to the mega cathedral variety.


The "Learning to Tune" thread on this site is sort of interesting in regards to some of the cornucopia of tuning temperament ins and outs.

 

[Tony G]

I realized this morning that I don't actually know what model number my Excelsior "Symphony Grand" is.

It has the arched BBBWBBWBBB 10 switches on the front with the coy register descriptions. (B black, W white) It has a LLMM configuration with no cassotto or mute. The cute names for the registers don't match up since one of the L reed blocks is where the H set would normally be but Excelsior had the names deeply stamped into the metal switch surround and evidently only carried one type of the trim plate- understandable. The LLMM configuration is as manufactured. Essentially no musette.

Extended keyboard F to B.

140 bass with seven register switches.

Has an oval metal plate with US, Italian, and Great Britain patents on the keyboard and also on the "Air Flow" design and the rocker switches.

Serial number is 9807 and it is stamped "Made in America" on the metal plate and "Made in USA" on the back of the bass section.

Stampings in the celluloid are crisp and clear. No hint of a model number, or signs that one might ever have been there.

I use it quite a bit. Thanks for any help.

PS It occurs to me that it is quite possibly a "custom" construction and as such may well not have a model number per se assigned by Excelsior!

So, Henry...
Do you want to sell the Excelsior?
Tony G

 

[John Doe]

So, Henry...
Do you want to sell the Excelsior?
Tony G

No thanks- I enjoy playing it. Besides Tom would probably be alarmed if I started selling my accordions instead of donating via the E express. (make of that what you will- an inside joke).

Henry