Alan Polivka
Active member
Here's a wooden tone chamber in a Guilietti made by Zero-Sette.
Excelsior Symphony Grand
- Thread starter danp76
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Alan Polivka
Active member
Why do you say that? What do those things mean to you? Just curious.
danp76
Active member
That looks similar to the interior of my Bugari 288's. I believe they are made by the same people in the Bugari factory in Castelfidardo. It certainly appeared that way when I visited back in 2019.Here's a wooden tone chamber in a Guilietti made by Zero-Sette.
Walker
🪗
These little symbols represent something about the instruments from another era. They are not found on new accordions, and so they are visual signs that clearly differentiate a vintage representation of Excelsior.
It's like owning a Gola with the older 'spoon shaped' couplers and grill metal 'stripes' that extend all the way to the keyboard.
Let's have a quick listen to compare the instruments of now and the instruments of 1950s America. How does a Victoria Poeta fare against a Citation series Excelsior Symphony Grand?
The little details, that's what makes an accordion just a bit more collectable and charming to me.
Oh and it's no contest. The Citation series Excelsior is a different class to the wooden Victoria.
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Alan Polivka
Active member
I totally agree. Unless cleaned recently, it almost certainly does indeed need a good cleaning. My point was that, in my experience, these Excelsior Symphony and Symphony Grand low-noise mechanisms actually need cleaning more often than the typical mechanisms on other accordions. They seem to get stiff more quickly - more sensitive to dirt and grime.
Alan Polivka
Active member
Any US-made Excelsior is a valuable vintage accordion.
Alan Polivka
Active member
Yes, same factory nowadays, I am told.
Alan Polivka
Active member
Regarding a side-by-side comparison of these various accordions, that's exactly what I have done and I'll share my findings. That's why I have acquired so many of these great accordions ... because I like to compare them under the exact same conditions in my home. And because I like to play different accordions depending upon the mood I'm in and the type of music I'm playing. Since room acoustics have a significant effect on how an accordion sounds, and because it takes more than just a half hour of playing an accordion to really assess it, I've spent extensive time playing each of the following accordions in my studio and here are my findings. Keep in mind that I only have one each of most of these accordions, so I can't comment on the amount of variation between two different accordions of the same model, except for rocker boxes (of which I have about 10) and Stradavox's (of which I have 3 or more, depending upon whether you count some from the same factory with other brand names) and a couple of Titano's. All of the accordions discussed below have "a mano" reeds.Well danp76, from a musical perspective, Jack Emblow's old Excelsior Symphony Grand Citation sounded amazing. I've seen a photo, it had the lightning bolt and Citation badge. I guess that's why I like those details. He also had a very nice Art Van Damme mod. 930 with G to C keyboard. Both were marvellous accordions. I've seen Jack Emblow pictured with a Gola too, so he had great taste in boxes!
Is there any significant mechanical difference with yours? Well Dan, I don't know as I'm not a technician (I'd rather practice the accordion than spend time repairing them). On the other hand, as a musician I know a great sounding accordion when I hear one. Have you made any sound clips of your Excelsior accordion so we can hear it's tone quality?
I don't know how the Excelsior compares with your Titano's or AM1100... What do you say Dan? I think it would be marvellous to get hands on with a vintage 41 key Titano Royal converter. That would be pretty awesome, and about as close as anyone is ever likely to get to Galliano's 1960s Victoria.That said, there are still some good new accordions, I have recently been listening to a Zero Sette (160 bass) concert accordion. What a tone! I don't know how they distribute the melody bass reeds on those accordions, but the result is so rich and consistent across the range of notes.
Melodiana Symphony - made in the 1950s by Zero-Sette with Guidobaldi reeds and double tone chamber - This is my favorite tone chamber box. It has the very highest quality a mano reeds, that are extremely powerful. It has a metal tone chamber, that helps its piccolo reeds sound very bright and contrast beautifully with very mellow chambered reeds.
Bell model 2520 - made by Farfisa, probably in the 1950s or early 1960s - with reeds that I think were made by Farfisa and Taborro. This is my favorite non-chambered accordion. It has the very highest quality a mano reeds, that are extremely powerful. It has a tremendous amount of punch, yet the grill gives it a very slight mute that adds a rich tone.
Titano Royal Converter - I think mine was made by Victora around 1970 and it has a double tone chamber. Very nice sound. High quality construction. Nothing exceptional about the sound - it's just what you'd expect from a quality tone chamber accordion.
La Tosca Eldorado - Imported by Gretsch - I don't know who in Italy made it, but would like to know if anybody can tell me - probably from the late 1950s. Probably the most beautiful overall sound of all the tone chambered accordions I own. Not quite as powerful as the Melodiana.
Stradavox from 1950s - Single tone chamber (only the bassoon reeds are chambered) - possibly made by Generalfisa. This is an ideal all-around accordion because you get the mellow sound of chambered bassoon reeds but the punch of having all middle octave reeds out of the chamber. I don't know why there aren't more single tone chamber accordions out there, because I find it to be a more practical configuration than double tone chamber. I suspect this has something to do with marketing ... that people may think if a single tone chamber is good, a double tone chamber must be better. If that's the reason, I generally disagree with it. I also suspect it's easier to build a double chamber accordion than a single chamber accordion.
Excelsior Symphony Grand - made in NY in 1950 (I have the original bill of sale). Very good accordion with wooden foundation plate and no chamber. The 6th set of LH reeds adds significantly to the bass power, which I find very desirable when strolling. Not as heavy as the others above, but not as powerful either. The bassoon reeds sound a little thin, as was often the case in vintage Excelsior accordions.
Excelsior Symphony - made in NY in 1952 or 1953 - no tone chamber. More mellow right-hand sound than my 1950 Symphony Grand, yet strong piccolo reeds. It has perhaps the most beautiful tone of any non-chambered accordion I own, possibly related to a different grill design than my 1950 SG and selectable mute. Not as powerful as my Melodiana and Bell.
Excelsiola Art Van Damme model - made in NY around 1950 with extended keyboard. It has the famous lightning bolt on it. LLM with M and one L in a tone chamber. Leon Zukowski, who was a tuner for Sonola and others around NY and NJ, said it has some of the best reeds he's ever encountered. I agree. When all 3 reed sets are engaged, it has a very unique sound. It is great for jazz and standards. Not so good for polkas and some other ethnic styles that require a very bright, punchy sound.
Excelsior Rocker Boxes - made in NY between the late 1930s and the early 1950s. Bright sound. Light weight (22 lb) which is why I use them often for strolling gigs. Most of these accordions have the typical thin-sounding Excelsior bassoon reeds, but a few of them have better sounding bassoon reeds. Owning about 10 of these, I can tell you each one sounds and plays slightly different. Not as powerful as my Melodiana and Bell.
Excelsior Special - The 3 of these I have were made between 1931 and 1933. They are all very bright, with just a single switch that engages or disengages the bassoon reeds. Great for polkas and other ethnic styles that require a very bright sound. Weak bassoon reeds. Light (21-22 lb).
Various other Excelsiors made between 1935 and 1940 - characteristics are similar to (or range between that of) the Specials and Rocker Boxes.
PANcordions - two made in NY (between 1949 and mid 1950s) and two made in Italy by Crucianelli in the 1960s. While the NY-built PANs are highly acclaimed, the two I have from Italy are better, IMHO. However, my NY models need some restoration work, so once I'm done with that and see how they are, I might rate them better. The two made in Italy both have outstanding double-riveted reeds that are quite powerful. The one with the more open grill style (like Myron Floren usually played) has one of the brightest, most cutting sounds I've heard. The one with the closed grill (like Yankovic played) has a rather muted sound that is quite beautiful. It's sort of in between the sound of a chambered accordion and a non-chambered accordion. One of the NY-built accordions has double-riveted reeds, the other does not.
Alan Polivka
Active member
I should probably add one more to the above list. That is, the Stradavox Eldorado. I'm guessing mine was built in the 1960s. It has very nice Magnatera reeds and a quadruple tone chamber. IMHO, there is no sense in having a quadruple tone chamber because it makes the piccolo reeds almost imperceptible and it reduces the punch of the middle octave reeds. So, the sound is, as you would expect, very muted. It is fine for jazz and standards, but not at all practical for polkas and any other style requiring a bright sound.
danp76
Active member
Wow, you have a great collection of accordions!
Ventura
Been here for ages!
Alan, i'm gonna play Devils Advocate in the key of Db..
have you used the Rolands on more gigs since you got them,
or the Acoustics ?
and when you are gigging on a Roland, do you most always feel satisfied
with their responsiveness and sound, or do you occasionally wish you
had brought the __________ after all ?
have you used the Rolands on more gigs since you got them,
or the Acoustics ?
and when you are gigging on a Roland, do you most always feel satisfied
with their responsiveness and sound, or do you occasionally wish you
had brought the __________ after all ?
Alan Polivka
Active member
Great question. Whenever I'm playing on stage with amplification, I use one of the Rolands. When I'm strolling, I use an acoustic. I probably do about an equal number of strolling vs. stage gigs. I definitely would prefer one of the acoustics over the Roland for the right-hand accordion sounds. However, in the various bands in which I play, I usually provide the bass for the group as well. And I usually provide a lot of piano sounds, some organ sounds, and occasional other sounds. The Rolands have great bass and piano sounds. There is no possibility of feedback with a Roland. And the ability to use bellows to control the expression on synthesized horns, piano, et al, makes the Roland accordion FAR superior to a keyboard when it comes to synthesized sounds - it makes them sound MUCH more realistic than using a MIDI accordion without bellows control of expression. The bellows response sucks on the Rolands when it comes to using it with accordion sounds - that's my biggest gripe about them. But, since I play a lot of rock, ballroom, and country gigs, the Roland's bass and piano sounds more than compensate for its less than ideal accordion responsiveness in those situations.
Alan Polivka
Active member
That's just a few of them.
danp76
Active member
What does your entire collection consist of?
Walker
🪗
I love this enthusiasm for the accordion, you guys are cool in my book! I but struggle a little bit to see the appeal of having lots and lots and lots of accordions. I would rather have a small number of nice accordions; a couple of good PAs and a good CBA. Then I would diversify...
If I were a rich man... Ya ba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dum
I would get a good upright piano, maybe a Yamaha. I would make an effort to learn to play it too!
I would have other instruments in the house for my family to learn (aside from the accordion). The Harp, Cello, Violin, Highland pipes and Uilleann pipes would all find a home here.
It would be a noisy old place, if I were a wealthy man....
If I were a rich man... Ya ba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dum
I would get a good upright piano, maybe a Yamaha. I would make an effort to learn to play it too!
I would have other instruments in the house for my family to learn (aside from the accordion). The Harp, Cello, Violin, Highland pipes and Uilleann pipes would all find a home here.
It would be a noisy old place, if I were a wealthy man....
I struggle too to see the appeal but I guess acquisitiveness is deep within the human psyche. I can also confess grave sin having nice Saltarelle and Cavagnolo accordions sitting unplayed at home. My penance when I get from holiday will be to move these on to someone that will play them!
danp76
Active member
Yeah, sometimes it’s hard to pass up a deal or the interest in trying a different brand or model. I’m sure I could easily get away with just a few top accordions. It’s hard to play them all haha.
Walker
🪗
@saundersbp, you are your own man... but I personally don't think you should sell the Saltarelle. It is simple, understated and perfect for olde English & Irish folk music. It sounds great and looks superb. You could always practice scales on it...
Alan Polivka
Active member
Italo-American, Baldoni, Morbidoni, Noble, Soprani, Lo Duca, various electronic accordions from '60's-'80's, et al.
Yes this one did have mellow but also powerful tone! I did full restoration and tuning. It is amazing how this accordion sound!
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