For Roland owners: Velocity sensitive OR fixed low (or med, or high) instead survey

[jimgansett]

Having had Rolands for many years, I could never seem to get used to velocity sensitive keys for piano, guitar, etc. and have used fixed low+bellows most of the time which I am comfortable with. I was thinking about a Korg Fisa, downloaded the manual and can't find a similar ability to use in the Korg manual. I certainly could have missed it. Got me to thinking about other players, so I would like to start a little survey here and find out which the majority of Roland players in the forum use: velocity sensitive or fixed+ bellows. Just a one line is fine.

 

[Tom]

I don’t know. What’s the default?

 

[dunlustin]

I'd never thought of turning off the velocity function.
That's worth exploring.

 

[Ventura]

without Velocity, i can see no reason to own a digital accordion
at all, since literally ANY simple, much less expensive MIDI-Acoustic
accordion would be far far superior in every respect for performance
control and sound

 

[oldbayan]

I rarely use orchestral sounds, for which velocity settings usually apply. Also, I use a button accordion, on the treble side buttons have a much shorter travel than piano keys, velocity control is very different.

 

[jimgansett]

I don’t know. What’s the default?

The default, as new, is Velocity sensitive

 

[jimgansett]

without Velocity, i can see no reason to own a digital accordion
at all, since literally ANY simple, much less expensive MIDI-Acoustic
accordion would be far far superior in every respect for performance
control and sound

Velocity or not, the upside would be the selection of orchestral sounds which an acoustic doesn't have. I don't need or want midi in what I do. The other important thing is the intended audience. At least the groups I play for no one has ever come up to me and say "Why didn't you use velocity sensitive keys" because the fact that I don't use them is not obvious to that audience. However, if you are playing to a more sophisticated audience, it may be more important to use the percussion voices with velocity sensitive keys.

 

[Squeezeplay]

Never had an audience member say to me, that doesn’t sound like a “ real “ accordion, or “ I noticed that on your piano setting there is no velocity sensitivity “. OR on your “ sax “ there is no noticeable reed growl. I play all three, strictly acoustic, acoustic with midi, and God help me, a Roland … your audience doesn’t care a whit which it is…What they care about is that you play the type of music they want to hear. And, as far as sounding real, I defy you to tell the difference between my Morino sound on the Roland, and the real thing. Just check Derek Hamilton’s Morino sound.

 

[Ventura]

while i appreciate the loss or benefit may be less with buttons,
quite a few orchestral sounds actually use both Velocity and Bellows
to extrapolate expression and attack

the idea of MIDI may be daunting, but even if the internal orchestral
sounds of the Roland or Korg could do battle with any decent tone module
or flat keyboard, it would nevertheless be a $500 vs: $5000 difference,
and obviously any good Acoustic will do the accordion stuff better,
at a much higher comfort level, and while holding it's value

and yes that is easy for someone like me to say, with nearly 50 years
of using MIDI accordions under my belt at this point,, for you or anyone
to start from scratch with a MIDI setup is no less difficult than the switch
to strange feeling bellows no bellows straps funny little buttons and
speakers under the grill rather than reeds you can feel and hear. But for
anyone else considering it, the entry to MIDI accordion is affordable to
most, while entry to anything but an FR1 is for people with money to burn.

 

[JerryPH]

In the early days of MIDI there was no velocity control and I loved playing all the on-accordion sounds. It actually took me about a year to get used to it. Today my answer is... it depends on the song and e en on the settings.between left and right hands
I especially like it on the left hand drums.

 

[KeysFla]

“Bellows and medium fixed” for orchestration.
Orchestra bass, chords and drums - fixed velocity.

 

[knobby]

I'm trying to use "velocity" on my FR1X, but I don't like it (and it's why I rarely pick up the Roland). I'm going to change to "fixed" and see if that endears me to the Roland a bit more. If not then it'll be on ebay!

 

[Giovanni]

Never had an audience member say to me, that doesn’t sound like a “ real “ accordion, or “ I noticed that on your piano setting there is no velocity sensitivity “. OR on your “ sax “ there is no noticeable reed growl. I play all three, strictly acoustic, acoustic with midi, and God help me, a Roland … your audience doesn’t care a whit which it is…What they care about is that you play the type of music they want to hear. And, as far as sounding real, I defy you to tell the difference between my Morino sound on the Roland, and the real thing. Just check Derek Hamilton’s Morino sound.

You are spot on with your comment ............I totally agree with you

 

[John M]

All my settings are just bellows -- No Fixed Low, Fixed Medium, or Fixed High)

 

[JerryPH]

Velocity sensitive... once I got used to it, I loved being able to basically have more control over each section using velocity sensitivity and bellows control. Love it!

 

[jimgansett]

Velocity sensitive... once I got used to it, I loved being able to basically have more control over each section using velocity sensitivity and bellows control. Love it!

HI Jerry,
I will try again to see if I can get used to the velocity sensitive on the 8x. There seems to be a BIG difference between the 3 sensitivity settings.

btw, a couple of weeks ago I had a chance to see/hear a Korg live at my home. Cory Pesaturo, who I have known through the Massachusetts Accordion Association, lives only about 30 minutes or so from me and he was gracious enough to bring it over as a friend.

The sounds are really good as you would imagine, but the thing about it is the weight. The weight listed for the 8x is 12.1 Kg without the straps which is about 26 and 1/2 lbs, (I am wondering if that is also without the battery)) and the stated Korg weight is 10.6 Kg which is about 23 and 1/2 pounds. So it seems that the Korg is about 3lbs lighter which doesn't sound like much until you actually put on the Korg. It was immediately noticeable for me, perhaps since I am in my 70s, but me, and I say me personally, would probably get it just for the sounds and weight. His scenes are also very good.

This is where the velocity question comes in.... in Korg documentation I could find, the Korg doesn't seem to have any settings for orch touches of fixed + bellows, etc. like the 8x. I checked with a dealer at Carnegie, who checked with one of his friends who has a Korg, and the friend claims it is possible. Since it is not in the documentation, I asked the dealer to let me know when he personally verifies how it is done.
Time will tell.

 

[John M]

.... in Korg documentation I could find, the Korg doesn't seem to have any settings for orch touches of fixed + bellows, etc. like the 8x. I checked with a dealer at Carnegie, who checked with one of his friends who has a Korg, and the friend claims it is possible. Since it is not in the documentation, I asked the dealer to let me know when he personally verifies how it is done. . . .

From what I could tell the Fisa has more control than the 8X.

On the 8X, (P. 100) menu 14.1 Dynamic Bellows Behavior, there is the "Bellows Curve Type" Light, Standard, Heavy and Fixed Low, Fixed Med., Fixed High.

On the Fisa (P. 96 of Owner's Manual), There are Bellows Curve Types of Light, Normal and Heavy, For these curves, there is an expression value adjustment from 0-127.
Also for the "Fixed Curve Type" there is an expression Level adjustment from 0-127.
These adjustments should give a much finer control than what is available on the 8X.

 

[kep]

On the 8X, (P. 100) menu 14.1 Dynamic Bellows Behavior, there is the "Bellows Curve Type" Light, Standard, Heavy and Fixed Low, Fixed Med., Fixed High.

There are 2 more parameters:
Resistance -64/+63
Min Bel - 0/50

Both interfere with the Bellows Curve Types

 

[JerryPH]

HI Jerry,
I will try again to see if I can get used to the velocity sensitive on the 8x. There seems to be a BIG difference between the 3 sensitivity settings.

Realistically, its more like 128 levels of adjustability and within that, 3 sensitivity settings, so one really won't need much more variability. Play softly with the fingers, the instrument is barely (if at all), heard. Play normally it's in balance, play with quick sharp depressions, it hits it's max volume. Think, for example, drums on the left hand, I can blend the drums in from soft in the background to audible to right at the top of the mix with a sharp hit of the left hand finger.

This is where the velocity question comes in.... in Korg documentation I could find, the Korg doesn't seem to have any settings for orch touches of fixed + bellows, etc. like the 8x. I checked with a dealer at Carnegie, who checked with one of his friends who has a Korg, and the friend claims it is possible. Since it is not in the documentation, I asked the dealer to let me know when he personally verifies how it is done.
Time will tell.

I am sure it has it as well, and a LOT will depend on player needs, style and of course player adaptability. This is one of those options that if I had a Fisa and compared them, I'd say that there was a difference, but in real life playing, it makes zero impact for me, as long as it's there and I can take advantage of it, extra adjustability is useless.