Free Bass -- Moschino system

[Bill Palmer]

I see that George Secor has joined us. He is a fine accordionist who plays an unusual free bass system called the "Moschino System."

It is clever and logical.

Hopefully, he will see the title of this thread and post some interesting information. It is a system that should not be overlooked.

 

[George_Secor]

I already posted a reply to one of Bill Palmer's messages in the "Quint" System thread, in which I included my viewpoint regarding the role of the free bass, as well as three links to examples of my playing the Moschino free bass system.

Attached is a diagram showing the button layout of the Moschino system: lowest notes are at the left of the diagram (i.e., at the bottom of the instrument, when held in playing position). I also included two diagrams illustrating a couple of fingering patterns. Observe that, unlike the various "bassetti" (or minor-third) layouts, the major scale is as easy as on the Stradella system, and arpeggios can be executed smoothly without leaping. Unlike the Quint system, the chromatic scale and chromatic passages are extremely easy (requiring no large leaps). Since the same fingering patterns are used in all keys for scales, chords, and whatever, playing chords on the Moschino free bass is much like playing them on a guitar (actually easier than on a guitar, since chords do not have to be "barred").

--George Secor
Godfrey, Illinois

 

[Matt Butcher]

Very interesting, George, and thank you for posting. I very much enjoyed your recordings on the Quint system thread. Playing a Bassetti system (the one with the low notes at the chin end, C system) (though not to a good standard) I don't immediately see the obvious superiority of this one on scales and arpeggios, but on the other hand I certainly have no reason to doubt you. To help me understand, one thing that stands out (other than the separation of notes on the row by major thirds) is the number of rows and the duplication of notes on different rows. Do you typically make use of the full set of rows in playing this system?

Another question, what right hand system do you use, is it laid out in the same way? I must admit my simple brain found the "mirror image" aspect of the Bassetti layout appealing though with a converter you don't get a complete mirror image and that is something that has to be worked around.

Anyway, though personally I like polkas and I think plenty of people do manage to play the stradella system with artistry, I do love the sound of the free bass and I really appreciated your recordings. Were there any past notable players particularly associated with the Moschino system?

 

[George_Secor]

Thank you, Matt, for your reply. Since you enjoyed my recordings, Ill give you two more:
http://xenharmony.wikispaces.com/space/showimage/Bach-WTC1-C_Minor.mp3
http://xenharmony.wikispaces.com/space/showimage/Satie-Gymnopedie1.mp3

Ill answer your questions in the order you asked them. You wrote:

> I dont immediately see the obvious superiority of this one on scales and arpeggios, but on the other hand I certainly have no reason to doubt you.

Youll see how much better the scale & arpeggio fingering patterns are on the Moschino system if you print my diagram, play the patterns on paper to learn them, then play them (silently, of course) on your accordions bass buttons. If you do that, youll find that everything can be played completely legato, including arpeggios.

> To help me understand, one thing that stands out (other than the separation of notes on the row by major thirds) is the number of rows and the duplication of notes on different rows. Do you typically make use of the full set of rows in playing this system?

Yes, I generally use all 8 rows of buttons, particularly when playing in a jazz style, in which I use a lot of open-position chords in the left hand, spanning anything from a tenth to two octaves (and occasionally beyond). If you listen carefully to the Satie Gymnopedie #1, youll notice that (except at the very end) I play only a single-note melody line in the right hand, with the left-hand accompaniment consisting of 4- and 5-note chords (since two buttons a fourth apart can easily be depressed with one finger!). Some of these chords span over two octaves, and its essential to use all 8 rows of buttons (diagonally) to reach these.

Id like to see the Moschino layout made available as a free-bass option on Roland V-Accordions, because it would make the system readily available to everyone. Its possible to get by with a Moschino-system layout on only 6 rows of buttons if one makes use of various work-arounds (mainly alternate fingerings; I would omit the two rows closest to the bellows). Even with that limitation it would still be much easier to play than any of the options Roland currently offers. Note that, even on the lowly FR-1X (which has only 72 bass buttons), the left hand would have a range of more than 4 octaves without switching registers!

> Another question, what right hand system do you use, is it laid out in the same way?

I have three professional-quality Moschino free-bass instruments, all with piano-accordion keyboard, LMMH dry tuning, and double tone chamber in the right hand. Two of these have a 45-note extended treble keyboard, including my best instrument (on which I made the recordings). All three instruments were made in Italy in the 1960s, two by Giuseppe Moreschi (imported by Crown Accordion Co. of Chicago) and one by Bell Accordion.

> Were there any past notable players particularly associated with the Moschino system?

Tom Patti was an excellent commercial/jazz player who played both the Stradella and Moschino free bass. I just looked him up on the internet and discovered that he passed away in January:
http://www.cressfuneralservice.com/obituary/121574/Thomas-Patti/

Thanks again for listening to my music.

--George Secor
Godfrey, IL

 

[KLR]

Ive been messing around with my Giuletti N3T after not playing it much for a few years; free bass accordions are fascinating, the stradella system never excited me much, playing other instruments including piano and guitar the idea of having no control over voicings seems almost perverse, unless youre playing folk music.

This gets me to wondering - what was the reasoning behind adopting the various free bass systems, and what are the advantages of each? I only have personal familiarity with the C. Ive read somewhere that the B system is better for playing melody lines, the C is better for chords - and if I recall correctly that was in reference to the right hand, but I imagine the same principles apply to the left.

And, looking at the fingering chart for the Moschino, that does look much easier to get around on, trying to play scales on my Giuletti is quite tricky, I have to lift fingers up and move them over instead of being able to cross fingers, which Id imagine is what George is getting at when he speaks of being able to play passages legato on demand. Fortunately Im a not very ambitious amateur so dont mind being at a loss.

I was also wondering how you could cram 8 rows onto a left hand, and found a picture of George himself:

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Of course plenty of accordionists have had instruments made with 160 bass so I shouldnt be surprised.

Thanks for providing the recordings of your playing, George. Looked for more players on YouTube but there dont seem to be any.

I bought a little 48 bass Scandalli and disconnected the root and fifth from the left hand chord buttons, thus arriving at yet another free bass system. Dunno what advantage it has, other than not costing much of anything, and light weight. I once bought a Titano on eBay as it was advertised as a Quint accordion, turned out the seller just copied info from Wikipedia for the listing. Drat...

Alf Hågedal also plays a free bass system, the Pietro Frosini layout, which is shown in the Golden Age of the Accordion book, and maybe online too. And of course he plays a finto piano, which Ive posted about on this site, which has piano keys on the right side as well as buttons.

 

[Glenn]

the idea of having no control over voicings seems almost perverse, unless youre playing folk music.

Well I wouldnt go as far to say that the Stradella has no control over voicings.
Indeed it does take some more ingenuity but for example, Georges Gymnopedie sample can very well be played with success on a Stradella bass, even with all those maj and min 7ths and added 6ths.

 

[KLR]

Well, a maj7 can be provided using the bass, but you're still locked into hearing the full chord underneath it, no inversions, no shell chords, and the maj7 itself in the bass. That's what I mean by lack of control over voicings. I can just play the root and the maj7 at the octave if I'm in the mood, or 5th/7th, or 3rd/7th; or bring any or none of these notes up/down an octave, not to mention play them in an arpeggio. Even the best practitioners of the Stradella are obviously using it, and its shortcomings are all too apparent.

It is far more tricky on the free bass to get from a low bass note to higher notes for a chord, which on the Stradella is nothing special. I'd like to hear an accomplished free bass player put out a rock solid oom-pah.

 

[KLR]

Well, this is impressive: Mogens Ellegaard - Carnival of Venice - YouTube I gather this fellow refused to have anything to do with the Stradella. Sounds like hes just playing the root and fifth for the chord but my ear is keen enough to know for sure.

 

[BobM]

Sounds like hes just playing the root and fifth for the chord but my ear is keen enough to know for sure.

Very impressive, but Im confused, as you say, theres nothing on the LH here that couldnt easily have been done on the Stradella. Also, I think that theres masses that can be achieved with the Stradella system, and getting stuck on points like the Maj7 chord (the guide tones of which can easily be voiced in the RH) is just a distraction. As for rhythm, even the humble oom pa pa can be played in many ways..

No inversions? Not strictly speaking, but theres plenty of false ones which sound pretty good to me, and the min7b5, wow!

Im a big fan, sorry!..

BobM.

PS, C of V is very nearly a diatonic tune, which means that its easily playable on the bass rows.

 

[KLR]

It's impressive that he's bouncing around from bass note to treble chord like is done on the stradella. This takes dexterity, imagine hitting a bass note C and then hitting three chord buttons on the Ab row, say.

Sometimes I turn on the Stradella to see what I'm missing, which isn't anything, besides convenience. Free bass systems are really liberating, if you're interested in these things. The sounds you get, being able to build any kind of chord, or shells, or inversions, it's just wonderful. Supplying notes via the RH in conjunction with a stradella chord works too, of course, but having these options is just the greatest. It really takes work to not hit the wrong notes, though! Although I'm having to work hard on doing the same thing with both hands, so...

I also play diatonic button accordion and am perfectly content with the simple basses on those, but that's folk music, a whole other ball of wax.

 

[BobM]

Heres Vincenzo Abbracciante taking the Stradella for a walk..

Migliavacca


Carnaval de Venice

 

[Glenn]

Marvellous .

 

[KLR]

Great player but like all stage recordings its so murky he sounds like hes playing on the ocean floor.

The audio on this is unfortunately chockablock with clinking silverware and chit chat, but still: Dr. Willard A. (Bill) Palmer: Carnival of Venice Variations (excerpt), 1992 - YouTube Quint free bass of course. Nice that Bills son posts here.

This fellow plays free bass, and this is a very high quality studio recording too: Jerry Cigler - Stella By Starlight. Listen to what happens with the voicings in the left hand. There are a couple live clips of Jerry too but theyre not solos, or high quality either. Im not nuts about his playing really, he isnt as on top of the beat as Id like, but it illustrates what I like about the free bass. Listen to the few clips on YouTube of Leon Sash or Tommy Gumina for more examples of jazzers using the bassetti.

 

[KLR]

Another free player: Karen Street - accordion: My Romance - YouTube

 

[BobM]

Another free player: Karen Street - accordion: My Romance - YouTube

Undoubtably one of the best, anywhere.

I met Karen on her solo tour a few years ago and arranged for a lesson. One of the first things that she asked me was something along the lines why I didnt play, or want to play the free bass system. My reply was something about not seeing the Stradella as a trap, but quite the opposite..

BobM.

 

[Glenn]

Another free player: Karen Street - accordion: My Romance - YouTube

Lovely performance.
Ive just arranged for a test of a new Roland FR8X and will most surely experiment with the free-bass settings if I take the plunge

 

[Jls16]

Hello! My name is Jonathan. I have a mint-condition Mario Moschino free-bass accordion that came into my possession 2 years ago. I'm wondering if anyone knows of any good technique books? I think I've done as much as I can, on my own, in figuring out fingerings for scales, chords and arpeggios. I'd really like to have a better technique. Please let me know if there's any helpful literature out there! Also, I am currently based in Cleveland, Ohio. Any teachers around the area who use this system? I'd really appreciate some help!

 

[simonking]

Hi, digging up this old thread seemed the best place to put this. I randomly found this video earlier and though it might be appreciated by those looking for more information on the Moschino system:


Dallas Vietty is using an accordion borrowed from George Secor (who posted earlier on this thread) and explains his thoughts on getting to grips with the Moschino system, particularly with reference to piano accordions and jazz styles and harmonies. Some very interesting stuff here. I wonder if George is still posting on this forum - his links are not working any more... In fact just found one, here is an excellent video of him playing Misty:


I think the Moschino free bass layout really does look like a good idea. But unfortunately I can see two reasons why it probably hasnt caught on:

1. The basic layout really needs 8 rows so it cannot easily be incorporated with the standard stradella layout using a converter mechanism. Of course, the few who have mastered it say there is no reason to keep Stradella but I think many will like to have the option through familiarity and convenience whatever happens.

2. The number of Moschino free bass instruments in existence in the entire world must surely only number into the 10s (at a total guess - I would be happy to see a more knowledgeable estimate from somewhere). This itself means that even with the best intention no-one can realistically afford take up it up except if the right circumstances present themselves. The left hand mechanism is probably no more complicated than the standard bass and of course, any of the decent accordion factories will make you any layout you want at the right price. But it would be beyond most people to pay 1000s just to try out an instrument with a non-existent second-hand market.

I have just noticed this statement from George Secor in the comments section of his video (link above):

George Secor3 weeks ago

I have recently arranged for new Moschino free bass accordions to be made in Italy by Siwa & Figli. There will be 3 different models, ranging from around 17 lbs. (34 treble/31 bass notes) to full size (28 lbs., 41 treble/58 bass notes). The 34/31 model will be available later this year (2017) and the larger models in 2018.

This is good news indeed. I dont think Ill be able to afford one but I wondered if anymore has a plan to rent them out. Perhaps the next step.... I dont know how well this will go down.... is to get a few dozen made in China down to a price. obviously these wont be good accordions but Id certainly be willing to spend a few hundred on a try it and see student-quality instrument just for the layout even if the tone and mechanics are not as refined. Trouble with this is that anyone even considering the Moschino system will already have experience of decent quality accordions....

Simon.