Future Classic Accordions

[petch]

I would imagine Rolands go the same way as retro computers and video game consoles, where they might become sought after decades later but only by the people nostalgic for them. They don't even have the collectability factor that other retro electronics have. Everyone else knows they're extremely obsolete and even if you get one in working condition, it's nowhere near as good as the current technology (is anyone using their AMSTRAD for data entry today?)

Given that Rolands already split opinions, I don't see there being many people nostalgic for the 'Roland accordion sound' in 2050!

 

[Ventura]

So do the Rolands make the list or not?

not yet !

 

[Tom]

"
IMHO the stepper motor bellows configuration is a fatal flaw
to any hopes for longevity, and was an unnecessary complication
introduced to solve a [problem that did not exist essentially,"

Hmmmm, this I did not know. How are the problems of this "feature" manifested?

I agree that all classic accordions are notable only to a select few.

 

[Walker]

So here's a question...

Are any of the following accordions 'future classic' material?

1. Classique (SEM) accordion (with single cassotto, for the musette players).

2. Saltarelle accordion models (for the folk players).

3. Siwa & Figli accordions (for Balkan musicians).

 

[JerryPH]

Hate to say it, and many will not agree, but, like the Cordovox, your Fr8x will be considered a "classic" in 30 years.

In 30 years it will also be classified "Legacy" if it works... but more than likely "Broke-ass non-functional" too... lol

 

[JerryPH]

So here's a question...

Are any of the following accordions 'future classic' material?

1. Classique (SEM) accordion (with single cassotto, for the musette players).

2. Saltarelle accordion models (for the folk players).

3. Siwa & Figli accordions (for Balkan musicians).

Not sure about #1 and #2, but #3 is definitely in the running and the Super Quattro Walnut makes my heart go all pitter-patter... lol

 

[Walker]

Totally agree @JerryPH. I was at their factory once, the walnut models were lush.

So here's the list of potential modern 'classics' so far...

Pigini Mythos
Pigini Nova
Victoria Poeta
Beltuna Leader V Fly
Beltuna Spirit IV or V (Classic or Luxury version)
Piatanesi accordions, and other similar Italian family owned and operated accordion makers.
Siwa & Figli accordions - especially Super Quattro/Super Quattro Artist/Noce models (walnut).
Bugari ars540c
Pigini Studio B2 (and similar compact models)
Saltarelle Bourroche

 

[John M]

I would imagine Rolands go the same way as retro computers and video game consoles, where they might become sought after decades later but only by the people nostalgic for them. They don't even have the collectability factor that other retro electronics have. Everyone else knows they're extremely obsolete and even if you get one in working condition, it's nowhere near as good as the current technology (is anyone using their AMSTRAD for data entry today?)

Given that Rolands already split opinions, I don't see there being many people nostalgic for the 'Roland accordion sound' in 2050!

So what is the Roland sound? It is a digital accordion with thousands of sounds that can be created. This includes the different sounds that you can make that you can tailor to your liking, in addition to the factory sounds that come with the Roland accordion. Also, there are User Programs available such as those from Richard Noel. Roland just got the digital accordion to "First Base". You have to learn what the capabilities of the Roland are to get to "Home Plate". With so many outstanding sound choices, I can't see that there will be that particular "Roland Accordion Sound". There are so many beautiful sounds. The problem is everyone likes something different, so there will never be a consensus on what the "Roland Sound" is. Hammond had the "key click" sound and the "crosstalk" between the tone wheels of different frequencies. Hammond put tone wheels in individual compartments of frequencies octaves apart. It helped, but the "crosstalk" was always there. Laurens Hammond tried to have his designers get rid of those "impurities". It got better, but could never be eliminated. So, people got used to that "sound".

In general, acoustic instruments do not have the flexibility of a digital instrument. In essence, they are "Hardwired". Take for example, the Hammond, which is an electro-mechanical organ. Hammond boasted many different tone combinations. I can't remember what they published, but if I do the math right, I believe the available combinations is (9)*8, which is 43,046,721. 9 comes from the nine drawbars and 8 comes from the different volume intensity settings on each drawbar. Now, can you really get that many different sounds? -- Even Hammond would admit that is stretching it a bit. The main change in Hammond tone is what your choice of the nine drawbars is. After that, you can "trim" the volume of each drawbar in your selection.

So, in reality, there was that "Hammond Sound" that everyone learned to love. The basic "Hammond tone" was always there. It was in the background on radio shows (original tone wheel organ came out in 1935 and lasted until 1975) -- even today, you can hear that "sound" on TV commercials. The Roland doesn't have that unique sound (because of all it's diversity in sounds). So, in 2050, I don't believe there will be nostalgia for that "Roland Accordion Sound". However, if no company comes out with a design superior to the FR-8X, there will be a demand for this unique instrument in 2050. Look at the Hammond B3 --came out in 1955 and was manufactured until 1975. It is still in high demand today -- 48 years later!

 

[Tom]

Totally agree @JerryPH. I was at their factory once, the walnut models were lush.

So here's the list of potential modern 'classics' so far...

Pigini Mythos
Pigini Nova
Victoria Poeta
Beltuna Leader V Fly
Beltuna Spirit IV or V (Classic or Luxury version)
Piatanesi accordions, and other similar Italian family owned and operated accordion makers.
Siwa & Figli accordions - especially Super Quattro/Super Quattro Artist/Noce models (walnut).

I love my Piatanesi but don't really think they will be considered "classics," the same way some of the others on this list will be. I mentioned them in another context.. So, I would suggest swapping them for that venerable workhorse, the Hohner Corona II, which is already s classic in many people's minds.

 

[petch]

So what is the Roland sound?

The answer probably lies within some of the other discussions on the forum regarding modelling (what Roland uses for their v-accordions) vs sampling

 

[John M]

i definitely would not agree

i would say the FR7 and FR3 could be considered classics (and groundbreakers) eventually
and i predict many will still be playing years after all the FR8's are propping doors open

IMHO the stepper motor bellows configuration is a fatal flaw
to any hopes for longevity, and was an unnecessary complication
introduced to solve a [problem that did not exist essentially,
but that would earn a few Italians long term residual payments for the
rights, and the marketing department pats onna back for an exclusive selling point

Which Roland models used a stepper motor bellows configuration?

 

[Walker]

I love my Piatanesi but don't really think they will be considered "classics," the same way some of the others on this list will be. I mentioned them in another context.. So, I would suggest swapping them for that venerable workhorse, the Hohner Corona II, which is already s classic in many people's minds.

Well, Piatanesi is an old name. Certainly, apart from Victoria (1919) they have been making instruments longer than the others on the list and I would like to think they will still be making accordions for a long time to come. They may not have the name cachet of some of the others on the list, but they appear to be producing a quality traditional product for a fair price. The fact is that accordions really are far too expensive, so the smart choice may well be the likes of the old family names that are less hyped and who can make lovely personalised instruments. Piatanesi (1920), Ottavianelli (1937), Giustozzi (1946) represent 'old Castelfidardo' to me and an alternative choice for those that know. Brandoni (1949) is perhaps the most internationally recognised of the small but traditional family names. The quality of the Brandoni product is incredible (both the wood line and the Infinity cassotto instruments), arguably one of the best in Italy, but their high end products are not cheap.

 

[saundersbp]

Future Classic Accordion? Hmm
Future Classic Bags of Crisps? Definitely those involving lentils rather than potatoes.

Here are my three classics:
1. Because it's got the full works of what you could ever need in an accordion, world class sound, relatively non-insane price, relatively light, relatively uncommon.
2. Because it's the smallest lightest classical accordion out there with a sensible range of notes (excluding the flighty and brittle Peter Pan cousin). You can go camping and play Bach!
3. Because it is such good fun and every note is full of character and smiles at you. It's also light. I'd take it to my desert island.

 

[Walker]

Future Classic Accordion? Hmm
Future Classic Bags of Crisps? Definitely those involving lentils rather than potatoes.

Here are my three classics:
1. Because it's got the full works of what you could ever need in an accordion, world class sound, relatively non-insane price, relatively light, relatively uncommon.
2. Because it's the smallest lightest classical accordion out there with a sensible range of notes (excluding the flighty and brittle Peter Pan cousin). You can go camping and play Bach!
3. Because it is such good fun and every note is full of character and smiles at you. It's also light. I'd take it to my desert island.

Good man, lovely wee collection. List updated accordingly... not sure about lentil crisps though.

 

[saundersbp]

Good man, lovely wee collection. List updated accordingly... not sure about lentil crisps though.

Somewhat borrowed rather than collected!
These however I own every one.

 

[Walker]

Somewhat borrowed rather than collected!
These however I own every one.

Indeed, the middle accordion in the earlier photo is what looks like a Pigini Studio B2... not your Pigini Ellegaard. Great photo though - a causeway of accordions.

 

[Sisu]

In my humble opinion, what makes any accordion appeal to me is 1.) acoustic, otherwise I would and have played various forms of electronic keyboards. 2.) Sound. I have owned and played some very nice accordions. My Ernie Felice SS4 Sonola, well it was a mistake to let it go. My Titano was great for Bach, but well, I'm not driven in that direction. My Beltuna leader v has a bass that just doesn't quit. It plays like a dream, but is heavy. The loaner Victoria poeta that I'm playing now is lighter, beautiful, and has a pretty bass/treble balance. It all comes down to personal taste. For all sorts of music from jazz to country to ethnic, and for comfort, the Victoria gets my vote. To me, that spells classic.

 

[Walker]

There is a lot to like about your idea of an appealing accordion @Sisu. However, perhaps a digital accordion (contrary to your consideration only of acoustics) can become a future classic if it is enduring and popular, so maybe in time there could be one or two Rolands that could make the list. For now there are a few nice acoustics that might also deserve a space on the list and a lot of it comes down to sound. I am not really sure if we will ever hear new instruments with the distinctive tone that was a feature of many old classics like the Sonola SS4 & SS20, the Hohner Gola, Scandalli Super VI or American Excelsiors and also Giulietti etc. That said, not only did these instruments have a rare sound but they had a slimline design and were precision built with high quality materials. I think the Victoria and Beltuna models you mentioned are great, but I think there is another name that also deserves mention: Brandoni.



I like the instrument here, but much prefer the Gold finish edition over this, the silver (above). Is it too superficial to think aesthetics of an instrument matter a little? I would probably go for a five voice version also - you do loose a bit in handling due to the extra bulk, but gain a bit more in tone variations. I think the Brandoni here sounds quite like the Dallape Organ-Tones of old, and there's not many new accordions that really compare to old greats, so just maybe it's a potential future classic...

 

[McSqueeze]

So here's a question...

Are any of the following accordions 'future classic' material?

1. Classique (SEM) accordion (with single cassotto, for the musette players).

2. Saltarelle accordion models (for the folk players).

3. Siwa & Figli accordions (for Balkan musicians).

Number 1 - Absolutely.
I bought my Elka Classique new in 1980 and it's been played several times a week for 3/4 hours at a time.
It's sounding and playing better than ever and in my view it is a Classic already.
LMMM with only the L in cassotto leaving a bright musette from the MMM reeds.
Designed by John Huband from Dundee it is an ideal instrument for the Scottish sound.
I'm not really into the technicalities of why it feels and sounds so good but I expect having hand made reeds,
pinned on rather than waxed, and the quality build are important factors.
I have 2 older accordions, a 1950s Ranco Supervox and a 1960s Hohner Morino Artiste that I feel are Classics,
and my Elka Classique is up there with them, if not better.

 

[Dingo40]

"However, perhaps a digital accordion (contrary to your consideration only of acoustics) can become a future classic if it is enduring and popular, so maybe in time there could be one or two Rolands that could make the list."
Walker,
Judging by the fate of past electronic accordions, are you thinking of it as a classic doorstopper?