Heavy Accordion

[Hugh]

I play a Vignoni double Cassotto 120 bass. I play standing up dance and lark about a bit on stage with it. At 57, I'm starting to find it physically demanding to do this and it is wearing me out! I can't see myself sitting down and playing until I absolutely have to.

The problem is replacing it with a lighter instrument which sounds as good as the Vignoni. I love the cassotto sound and I would want a lighter instrument that sounds as good. Any ideas?

 

[wirralaccordion]

Hugh,
For interest, exactly how heavy is your accordion?

 

[StargazerTony]

Got a couple of years on you. I'm 71, today actually, and am finding my 20 pound, 9.072 kg, accordion getting to be a bit heavy for me even though its considered a lightweight, ladies model (actually hate that term for I think that the only thing that makes things ,"ladies model" is that a lady owns it). I've already wrenched my back several times picking it up oddly, and that's not huge fun. Have to play it mostly sitting since 15 or 20 minutes standing with it, gets painful. Tried wide straps, back straps, and even the Murlstrap and while they do help its still a 20 pound dead weight hanging on me. I think what I'm going to do is find a 30/34 72/60 accordion weighing in at no more than about 13 pounds, 6 kg. I know I'll have to sacrifice some sound, but honesty, it really doesn't matter. I play for myself, at parks and occasionally for people at retirement/rehabilitation homes where I get them singing songs of their era, 1930, 1940, and the first half of the 1950's. Their singing voices are so bad and dissonant, they drown out my accordion anyway. But they do have fun.

 

[JerryPH]

My advice? Stop letting pride get in the way, walk on stage with it, get yourself seated in a nice higher comfortable and supportive chair and enjoy the full quality of the accordion. You will never get a smaller accordion to sound the same. The 2nd option is that you accept a loss in sound quality (a little or a lot, its up to you, but there will be a change in sound quality), and continue strolling around on stage, but note that eventually even this smaller accordion is going to feel heavy for you too.

Facts of life... older gents like you and I (I just turned 58 a couple weeks ago), are not meant to be walking around with 25-30 pounds of weight on our shoulders over longer periods of time, we will harm out bodies if we continue to do so. . Lets be smart about it and not wait "until we absolutely have to", because that is way too late and the damage is already done.

 

[Corsaire]

I think what Im going to do is find a 30/34 72/60 accordion weighing in at no more than about 13 pounds, 6 kg. I know Ill have to sacrifice some sound, but honesty, it really doesnt matter.

Tony - I gave in to pride a while ago and stopped playing my Excelsior 96 bass weighing in at 10kg because I found it too heavy (impossible to play standing) and even worse to carry around in a 5 kg case ! Age (67) and light build preclude me from continuing to play that weight !

Im using a loan Brandoni Piccolo (72 bass 2 voice). A big difference regarding sound, but it only weighs 6kg and is very easy to play. I can walk around with it, or sit if I want, and never have the slightest ache or pain. Yes, Ive had to sacrifice sound quality, but Ive got to an age where ease of playing really matters and adding a 3rd voice = around a kilo more in weight. It fits the bill for what I play today, even if its often sold as a childs accordion !!!

You could try hiring a smaller accordion to see how it goes - the lighter weight ca be a huge relief.

 

[debra]

I'm surprised at what people consider heavy. My Hohner Morino Artiste XS comes in around 18kg and the original Hohner case is another 5kg. I do find that too heavy (and it was hurting my shoulder to play it for a long period of time) but my other accordions are 13 or 14kg and that I find quite bearable.
I want to make suggestions for "lighter instruments" but to people who find a 10kg accordion too heavy I cannot make suggestions.
Cassotto makes an accordion heavier. It;'s not just the cassotto itself but the key mechanism (with two arms and two pallets) is heavier (and is times the number of notes...) Going smaller can help. You may find a 96 bass cassotto instrument (lighter bass mechanism and smaller case) and maybe you can order it with a 41 key keyboard with narrower keys? Or maybe you don't mind having only 37 keys...
Some brands focus on lighter instruments. Pigini does. Borsini used to do it too (but no longer exists).
It's really important that you do not believe a weight specified by a manufacturer. So catalogs are useless. All manufacturers I know of rate their instruments as being lighter than they really are.

 

[Thomas N]

My advice? Stop letting pride get in the way, walk on stage with it, get yourself seated in a nice higher comfortable and supportive chair and enjoy the full quality of the accordion. You will never get a smaller accordion to sound the same. The 2nd option is that you accept a loss in sound quality (a little or a lot, its up to you, but there will be a change in sound quality), and continue strolling around on stage, but note that eventually even this smaller accordion is going to feel heavy for you too.

Facts of life... older gents like you and I (I just turned 58 a couple weeks ago), are not meant to be walking around with 25-30 pounds of weight on our shoulders over longer periods of time, we will harm out bodies if we continue to do so. . Lets be smart about it and not wait until we absolutely have to, because that is way too late and the damage is already done.

This is absolutely the answer! Im a little younger than you guys but one thing I noticed is that all the older accordionists were having hip surgery, knee replacements, shoulder problems, etc. Dick Contino had a hip replacement and I think Frank Marocco had complications from hip surgery that ultimately led to his very premature passing. I could be wrong about that as it has been several years but I remember reading many incidents of accordionists having hip surgeries.

All those guys played heavy acoustic instruments for years standing up. They say those 20-pound backpacks our kids wear to school will have dire consequences down the road. Now imagine a 30-pound box on your FRONT and vigorously playing it for two hours. Your body will break down.

Im with Jerry on this. Check your pride at the door and have yourself a seat do that people can enjoy your playing for many years.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Hugh,

I'm with Jerry and Thomas on this. Gravity will always win in the end, so you may just as well accept your limitations and sit yourself down.

I never play standing but, then again, I am an old man. Come to think of it, I have never really played whilst standing.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Neoscan]

The obvious choice would be the Vignoni double cassette Ravel 2 BX model at about 9kg but there’s always going to be a compromise- less notes or less reeds etc. This is not always a bad thing once you get used to it!

Sitting down is also a good option though of course.

 

[debra]

Another bit of advice would be to put down the accordion between music pieces. Richard Galliano always performs while standing (using an accordion with melody bass so at least 13kg) and he isn't exactly young any more... He always puts down the accordion on the ground (in the playing orientation) while announcing the next piece or just telling a story and then picks it up again to play.

 

[donn]

Though I suppose it would be even more important to develop good habits for setting down and picking up - flexing knees, using abdominal muscles, etc., don't ask me. I suppose he closes and buttons it before setting it down (I forget what those retaining straps are called - my accordion shouldn't have them, being French, but someone added them later.)

 

[george garside]

playing a box that is uncomfartably heavy is self inflicted torture irrespective of how much you like the sound it makes. At 76 I keep my big box , which I love, for playing at home for relatively short periods ( and seated) . and for band work I have gone to a lightweight 3 voice MML box which as far as the punters are concerned does the job fine.

Although I am no fan of electronic boxes would a roland or whatever produce the sound of a big box without the same weight penalty?

george

 

[debra]

...
Although I am no fan of electronic boxes would a roland or whatever produce the sound of a big box without the same weight penalty?
...

A Roland (FR8x or FR4x) can really produce nice sound, but if you want the sound of a big box (or any good accordion actually) to come out of the internal speakers you may be disappointed but when connected to a good sound system or used with good headphones the answer is yes: really nice sound, can sound like a big box. But of course it may not sound like the big box that you want it to sound like, except maybe after a lot of tweaking.
Caveat: I only listened to demos and tried Roland briefly a few times. The sound straight out of the box was never good but I hear that with tweaking it can be made to sound better, but through a sound system or headphones I have been pleasantly surprised.

In the accordion world I know many people who would never consider a Roland because of the awful first attempt that Roland made with the FR7. You get only one chance to make a good first impression and Roland failed at that with the FR7 and many people never want to look at them again.

Sadly also, an FR8x is not exactly a lightweight alternative to an acoustic accordion. The FR4x is a better contender for that.

Still, to just reduce weight there are good acoustic options when you are willing to give up having 120 basses and willing to accept a smaller range of notes. You do not have to give up on sound quality.

 

[Keymn]

Here I go again! Thinking outside the box! If you go with electronics accordions consider those external sound modules like Roland INTEGRA-7. And if you do not need all the keys, go with fr1x. Light weight and blow them away with sound. Bk-7m another alternative which is more suited to the VAccordion.
My first VAccordion was an FR7. I never went out and bought those later models year after year. Paid it 100 times over with gigs, just too bulky and heavy. I do not think a failure model...
The FR4x may be my last accordion purchase for many many years. Looking at the future in sound connectivity outside the box.
The only accordion that I would like if Were a million-aire is the Panaccordion like Franky Yankovich used. My friend Joey Miskula uses it all the time with his western music. A great sounding accordion in studios. But it maybe too heavy for us older guys?

 

[colinm]

I play a Vignoni double Cassotto 120 bass. I play standing up dance and lark about a bit on stage with it. At 57, Im starting to find it physically demanding to do this and it is wearing me out! I cant see myself sitting down and playing until I absolutely have to.

The problem is replacing it with a lighter instrument which sounds as good as the Vignoni. I love the cassotto sound and I would want a lighter instrument that sounds as good. Any ideas?

My Vignoni 37/96 double cassotto weighs 11.1 kg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JerryPH]

That's just under 25lbs... no lightweight there.

 

[colinm]

Not wishing to hijack Hugh,s post but I think its still on thread

Does anyone have an accordion which weighs less than 9kg, 21 lbs and sounds anything similar to a double cassotto?

 

[debra]

Not wishing to hijack Hugh,s post but I think its still on thread

Does anyone have an accordion which weighs less than 9kg, 21 lbs and sounds anything similar to a double cassotto?

There are no miracles!
That Vignoni 37/96 double cassotto at 11.1 kg is pretty lightweight for what it is.
How are instruments made lighter without changing functionality and sound quality? The wood of the case can be made thinner. It may change slightly the sound response, but it mostly changes the strength. Very light accordions are fragile. The metal components inside could be made thinner, but thinner rods and other mechanical parts would become less strong, plus not using standard components (rods, keyboard levers...) makes production more expensive. Replacing metal or wood by lighter plastic is also not such a great idea. An accordion with plastic reed blocks for instance wont sound the same and plastic rods really are not strong enough.... One can save a little bit of weight also by removing one or two bellow folds, but that is negligible and affects usability (amount of air the bellows can hold)...
In short, without drastically changing the production and without affecting mechanical and sound quality there isnt all that much that can be done...

That being said I just read a facebook post from Klaus Paier (in Accordion news & events) and supposedly he managed to put together an accordion which I think is 41/120 with a mano reeds and cassotto and 3 octaves melody bass in quint convertor, all under 10kg. I really would like to do how he pulls this off.

 

[Hugh]

Hugh,
For interest, exactly how heavy is your accordion?

Sorry about the delay in replying, Ive been away. The Vignoni website says 12 kg. Be interesting to see if thats accurate when I get the chance to weigh it!

 

[Anyanka]

I used to play a Pigini Wing, 4-voice, 120 bass, which was designed particularly for lightweightness - but it did sound thinner than standard accordions, and after I acquired the C37 with its much richer tone, I could not have gone back... for me, the only alternative to that now would be a non-convertor 2-voice LM box for sessions and gigs, but they are quite rare!