Heavy Accordion

[maugein96]

When I started playing accordion in my early 30s the weight of the instrument was never an issue, but I never even considered playing standing. I knew that as a late starter I would never be playing to a paying audience, so I just decided to get as comfortable as possible, and that was it.

Even when I play a very light accordion I play seated, and anybody who feels obliged to play standing, strolling, or even whilst riding a skateboard, is bound to want to look for something lighter.

For about 20 years my main box was a 3/4 size LMM 96 bass Maugein Mini Sonora, and playing it for extended periods was rarely an issue when seated. The accordion has a 4 voice bass. However, I recently acquired a full sized LMM 120 bass Cavagnolo with 5 voice bass and a tone chamber, and the mere kilo of extra weight is very noticeable, even whilst seated. My left shoulder is not used to the extra weight and size on the bass side, so I have difficulty playing it for more than an hour at a time. I'm a mildly arthritic 65 year old and don't know whether my shoulder will ever adjust to the extra weight. The right hand is far easier to play than the Maugein, otherwise I would never have bought it, but the shoulder issue only became apparent after I had been playing it for a week or two.

Therefore it's not just the issue of standing vs seated that some of us need to consider. The Maugein, even although it is 3/4 size, still weighs 10.5kg, and the Cava weighs 11.5kg. With the Cava my left shoulder needs to lift a few inches higher than the Maugein. That and the extra kilo in weight makes a hell of a lot of difference in the comfort stakes, even although I never play them other than seated.

The moral of the story (for me) would be to try and find the most compact instrument which will suffice for all the styles you intend to play. Weight on its on is not the whole issue, but I can assure you that comfort is.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Errrr... John,

could you explain why your "left shoulder needs to lift a few inches higher" when playing the 120 bass Cava..... just sounds odd to me.

Personally I don't notice anything like this when swapping from my 8.3kg 96 bass to my 12kg 120 bass...

 

[maugein96]

Geoff,

We "regional" types tend to struggle with English language the way it should be "wrote", as you are probably aware.

My shoulder is obviously at the same height, it's my left arm that has to move out and up a bit to a position
that it is no longer used to, and it appears to be the ball joint in my left shoulder which is complaining.

With the Maugein the box sits a fair bit lower, and my left arm has got used to playing in that position. The lighter 4 voice bass and shorter accordion body length make for a more comfortable playing position.

I find that with the Cava, the combination of longer accordion body and heavier 5 voice bass appears to put a strain on my shoulder to the point where it stiffens up and aches. The extra effort required to push and pull the bellows seems to be the issue, although the different body shape of the Cava could also be a factor.

Still haven't listened to much of Herve's CD yet, as we're getting work done in the house. Interesting to see that the mastering was done by Samuel Garcia, the Roland wizard.

I think I've cracked "accordage Segurel" by listening to a sound sample on Maugein's website. Standard Mini Sonora LMM with one flute tuned up to maybe 4 or 5Hz. The only real mystery is how sharp the flute is.

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

Ah yes John,
fatter case and bass rows in higher position makes for changes in arm extension. More pull needed with a 5 voice bass ? Yes probably, though my 5 voice bass models tend to be old and leak a wee bit which appears to soften the action of the movement ,well until full volume is required, then it is like swimming against the current!

Hervé has hardly been off the turntable lately, with my wife playing her Cabrette along with the CD.... Luckily for me she is away at an Auvergne music summer school this week.... so I can play accordéon all day and night...

I'm wondering if 'accordage segurel' might be more than +5hz. or is it just that there is a mellowing effect when there is also a third flute minus 5hz ? I am quite happy with my LMMM 's some of which have Plus and Minus 5 or 6hz flutes as long, that is, as I keep the basson in the mix.
cheers!

 

[maugein96]

Im wondering if accordage segurel might be more than +5hz. or is it just that there is a mellowing effect when there is also a third flute minus 5hz ? I am quite happy with my LMMM s some of which have Plus and Minus 5 or 6hz flutes as long, that is, as I keep the basson in the mix.
cheers!

Geoff,

Segurel tuning has no flat reeds. His box is the standard LMM Mini Sonora with the second flute tuned pretty sharp. Ive been caught out on various occasions when Ive heard LMM boxes with wide MM tuning. The way my ears are I sometimes think Im listening to 3 voice musette. If you look at my current thread on Maugeins fate and fortune youll see a clip posted by Ouijaboard of a 2 voice Cava with tuning so wide I would have thought I was listening to musette pur, but for the instrument description.

My teacher has a LMMM Cavagnolo CBA which he can switch from MMM to MM, and the only thing I can detect when he does that is a slight decrease in volume, as it has fairly wide tuning. I jokingly offered him £200 for it, saying hes spoiled it by putting those metal bellows clips on it, but it was a no deal. Youve got to try! Im hoping he decides to get rid of it at some point, providing my shoulder can handle it. Its a LMMM (no boite), and dont know what the now obsolete model is.

I decided to go for lessons so that I can get my head round all the scores I have. Im getting there with the sight reading, but he uses either Scottish or Classical fingering, or both, and Im having to learn what that 5th row does. Its all about economy of movement to improve accuracy, but Medard Ferrero would be crying if he saw what the teacher has me doing. Thumb on 4th row, and resting thumb on the next button it will play, together with playing whole passages on the inside three rows. I think I have the Alzheimers equivalent of muscle memory loss of the right hand. Some of the fingering does make very good sense, but Im still reaching for the edge of the keyboard instead of moving my hand inwards. Youre never too old to learn, but the habits of even half a lifetime take some breaking.

Hopefully in time my shoulder will adapt to the little extra Im asking of it, and Im making a point of persevering with it. The Cava has a far better treble keyboard than the MIni Sonora, although I dont think the reeds are as responsive as the Maugein. I think the Cava would sound better with americain rather than the dryish version of swing tuning it has, but its not all bad.

Enjoy the peace and quiet while you can!

 

[Geoff de Limousin]

John,
now it is my turn to admit poor use of English; indeed ' Son Segurel' has no low reed. What I meant was perhaps I find that amount of wetness easier to chew when it comes in MMM form. I tried the Segurel tuned Mini Sonora at the factory and, appart from the hideous colour scheme, I doubted I could live with the sound . I bought a 'normal' Mini Sonora, second hand, and should have kept it but it got traded-in for a Cava Pro 8 , which had some pretty wild musette settings, all switchable so one can have the upper or the lower or both wet flutes. The Cava got sold because I'd bought two five voice bass instruments, which were deemed to be better accompaniment for the Cabrette. One of these 'new' old instruments has registers to add either the upper or lower or both musette voices but with only about 3 hz. each way it is sweeter altogether.

I have also gone to 5 row instruments and experimenting with 'economy', so I am interested to hear how fingerings
and thumberings are changing. for you.

 

[maugein96]

Geoff,

It will probably be the same Segurel box you played that they've taken the sound sample from. Fine if you want to play Segurel's music, but it would hem you in if your tastes were elsewhere. The colour schemes of most 50s/60s French accordions were pretty garish, and their Segurel model is down there with the worst. Mind you I have a little Hohner Nova Fun light which is gold sparkle with black buttons, so maybe I shouldn't be so picky.

I've seen the Cava Pro 8 but never heard one. I passed my old Cava Bal Musette onto Gordon, my teacher, as it was in a pretty poor state and was just taking up house room. It only had the facility to switch the MMM to M, but it had a cheat whereby you could move the levers independently of each other. You ended up with a weird sound which I presumed was the flat and sharp MM together. You couldn't get it into that position on the fly and you had to select it before playing. You put your hand between both levers, and pushed the top one up and the bottom one down. I very rarely used it as it just didn't sound right to my ears.

On the subject of fingering I've learned a fair bit already in only a couple of lessons. He doesn't allow me to rest my thumb on the side of the treble keyboard at all, and insists I rest it on the next button that is due to be played with the thumb, so that it's already there and I don't need to flick it on and off the keyboard. What that does for me is that it makes it easier to "float" my hand over the keyboard, but at the moment I often find myself in the wrong row, as my memory is telling me to get back onto the outside as quickly as possible. It certainly makes for greater flexibility of hand movement, but you need to really shove those buttons down, as your fingers are much closer to them than if you rest your thumb on the side. You effectively lose part of your angle of attack, but I'm already finding that my hand isn't "locking" into position, when I'm needing to do big jumps. The "floating hand" means you (I) need to pay more attention to accuracy.

He analyses each tune and formulates a "game plan" for it. He's an ex PA player, and has devised his own fingering method. He agrees that my 30 odd years of Ferrero isn't "wrong", it's just that he prefers to do it his own way. As such there are times when so long as I play what he asks the fingering isn't crucial. He shows me the fingering he prefers and so far I've only had one or two slight issues. I'd never played runs across four rows before, or used the thumb anywhere other than the 1st and 2nd rows. He has me playing "across" the instrument rather than use big stretches wherever possible, but occasionally he'll ask what row I'm on and I cannot tell him. We're not even at the stage of playing right hand chords yet and that will be interesting. I never actually wanted to change my fingering, it was more learning how to read properly. However, he's a pro player, and people play to listen to him. They don't pay to listen to me, so I just watch and learn.

With some tunes I still keep the thumb off when doing button trills, as the thumb gets in the way during fast button changes, but I'm gradually getting the idea of keeping the thumb "ready for action".