Hello and thoughts on buying online

[Reen49]

Hi all, I'm a first time poster.

I've a Castagnari Dinn II which I'm selling as I should never have bought it. I play a lovely Wheatstone anglo concertina already and that's enough for me as far as Irish trad goes. I'd like to buy a B Griff chromatic accordion and play classical music on it. It's always been more my thing, but I'm in a minority in Ireland and there's very little like that to be found and no shops selling them. I see some on websites in Germany that sounds interesting (the UK is too expensice to buy from since Brexit ).

Has anybody got any advice on buying online from reputable dealers? It's obviously not so easy to send it back or get repairs done if they offer a warranty. I'm just wondering how risky it is and whether people have had good experiences? I'm not likely to travel to buy one, even though that sounds like a sensible thing to do.

 

[debra]

...

Has anybody got any advice on buying online from reputable dealers? It's obviously not so easy to send it back or get repairs done if they offer a warranty. I'm just wondering how risky it is and whether people have had good experiences? I'm not likely to travel to buy one, even though that sounds like a sensible thing to do.

There are several pitfalls in buying accordions online, even from reputable dealers. You already know the issue of sending it back (when the dealer is far away) and getting warranty repairs done (involving sending the accordion back). But there is also the issue of getting repairs done later by a more local dealer. (Not every accordion dealer may be willing to service accordions they did not sell, especially when they are too busy anyway.)
The biggest problem is that when the dealer is far away you cannot "try before you buy". The size, weight, fit, sound, handling... all these important issues you cannot test before buying.
So if at all possible, buy from a dealer that is a reasonable (driving) distance away so you do not need to worry about shipping (with its own pitfalls like the accordion arriving in a seriously broken state after being thrown around by the shipping company).

 

[Reen49]

There are several pitfalls in buying accordions online, even from reputable dealers. You already know the issue of sending it back (when the dealer is far away) and getting warranty repairs done (involving sending the accordion back). But there is also the issue of getting repairs done later by a more local dealer. (Not every accordion dealer may be willing to service accordions they did not sell, especially when they are too busy anyway.)
The biggest problem is that when the dealer is far away you cannot "try before you buy". The size, weight, fit, sound, handling... all these important issues you cannot test before buying.
So if at all possible, buy from a dealer that is a reasonable (driving) distance away so you do not need to worry about shipping (with its own pitfalls like the accordion arriving in a seriously broken state after being thrown around by the shipping company).

Thanks for your words of wisdom. Tempting as it is to buy from abroad, you're right. I'll keep looking here and take my time.

 

[SteveBox]

So if at all possible, buy from a dealer that is a reasonable (driving) distance away

Hi Reen. I agree with Paul De Bra, but the key phrase here is "if at all possible". If you have no local dealers who stock or could special order what you want, then what? If you do your due diligence and know how to avoid scams, online "bargains" that will cost more to repair than to buy, and low-quality Chinese accordions (there have been many forum discussions on these topics!), then it is possible to successfully buy online. I've had success twice.

I purchased a lightly used Castagnari CBA on Ebay (oh, the horror stories about Ebay!) but I didn't just blindly click "buy". I first asked the seller for his phone number and called him. I asked a lot of questions and had him play it for me. Even though he spoke little English (he lived in Quebec) we managed to communicate. After being convinced the instrument was as he described and that this was very likely a good deal, only then did I decide to buy it. You can see it in my profile photo. If you buy a high-quality accordion in good condition, it should require little maintenance other than occasional tuning.

Of course, finding exactly what you want on an online marketplace requires patience and a lot of luck. One such marketplace is the "For Sale" section of this forum. I see several B-system accordions currently for sale.

Another time I purchased a custom three-row CBA from a well-known French builder of small button accordions. Some trust was involved, as I had to pay them in full by bank transfer before they would ship it. The accordion arrived in perfect condition and has been wonderful to play.

Speaking of France, THIS POST mentions that France is awash in accordions for sale. Can it be all that expensive to fly over to France or Germany and visit some shops? One problem you might encounter is that a B-system CBA will be harder to find, as C-system is much more common in western Europe.

Good luck!

 

[tcabot]

Hi Reen,

Are you looking for a converter or stradella only? What spec - 5-voice double cassotto or 3-voice entry level non-cassotto model? And buying new or used? You can put a "wanted" ad on this site.

Asking because I've got a task on my todo list to tune & service one of mine before I put it up for sale. Might be a couple months before I get to it though.

Dealers typically put a very high mark-up on their products - we're talking hundreds of %. In return, from a decent dealer you get the opportunity to try a few instruments in person, peace of mind that everything works & has been serviced and guarantee that it can be returned/issues fixed.
With an online dealer in another country you still get the full dealer mark-up, but you don't really get any other benefits. Even if the dealer is happy to fix any found issues "for free", the cost of shipping there & back can be prohibitive.
I'd say that a good local fettler is the way to go, and you can learn about his reputation from fellow players instead of online reviews generated by AI.

 

[Reen49]

Hi Reen. I agree with Paul De Bra, but the key phrase here is "if at all possible". If you have no local dealers who stock or could special order what you want, then what? If you do your due diligence and know how to avoid scams, online "bargains" that will cost more to repair than to buy, and low-quality Chinese accordions (there have been many forum discussions on these topics!), then it is possible to successfully buy online. I've had success twice.

I purchased a lightly used Castagnari CBA on Ebay (oh, the horror stories about Ebay!) but I didn't just blindly click "buy". I first asked the seller for his phone number and called him. I asked a lot of questions and had him play it for me. Even though he spoke little English (he lived in Quebec) we managed to communicate. After being convinced the instrument was as he described and that this was very likely a good deal, only then did I decide to buy it. You can see it in my profile photo. If you buy a high-quality accordion in good condition, it should require little maintenance other than occasional tuning.

Of course, finding exactly what you want on an online marketplace requires patience and a lot of luck. One such marketplace is the "For Sale" section of this forum. I see several B-system accordions currently for sale.

Another time I purchased a custom three-row CBA from a well-known French builder of small button accordions. Some trust was involved, as I had to pay them in full by bank transfer before they would ship it. The accordion arrived in perfect condition and has been wonderful to play.

Speaking of France, THIS POST mentions that France is awash in accordions for sale. Can it be all that expensive to fly over to France or Germany and visit some shops? One problem you might encounter is that a B-system CBA will be harder to find, as C-system is much more common in western Europe.

Good luck!

Thanks so much for your thoughts. Great idea to get the online person's phone number. Never any guarantees online as some scammers or cowboys are very clever but every extra check you can do helps.
It adds an extra level of vulnerability to the equation as I can't play a CBA and even some of the expressions I'm reading on websites are unfamiliar to me. When I bought my first Jeffries concertina (an antique) I bought problems and paid for them! I loved it though. It's hard to be wise without personal experience.
There is one dealer in Ireland (a long way away from me) that has a couple of accordions I'd like to try. I'll put details in a post later as I'd love people's thoughts. Weight and resale value concern me as I don't see the ones I'm watching selling very quickly and as a complete beginner I'm thinking a full size high spec model is not going to be a good fit for me.

Hi Reen. I agree with Paul De Bra, but the key phrase here is "if at all possible". If you have no local dealers who stock or could special order what you want, then what? If you do your due diligence and know how to avoid scams, online "bargains" that will cost more to repair than to buy, and low-quality Chinese accordions (there have been many forum discussions on these topics!), then it is possible to successfully buy online. I've had success twice.

I purchased a lightly used Castagnari CBA on Ebay (oh, the horror stories about Ebay!) but I didn't just blindly click "buy". I first asked the seller for his phone number and called him. I asked a lot of questions and had him play it for me. Even though he spoke little English (he lived in Quebec) we managed to communicate. After being convinced the instrument was as he described and that this was very likely a good deal, only then did I decide to buy it. You can see it in my profile photo. If you buy a high-quality accordion in good condition, it should require little maintenance other than occasional tuning.

Of course, finding exactly what you want on an online marketplace requires patience and a lot of luck. One such marketplace is the "For Sale" section of this forum. I see several B-system accordions currently for sale.

Another time I purchased a custom three-row CBA from a well-known French builder of small button accordions. Some trust was involved, as I had to pay them in full by bank transfer before they would ship it. The accordion arrived in perfect condition and has been wonderful to play.

Speaking of France, THIS POST mentions that France is awash in accordions for sale. Can it be all that expensive to fly over to France or Germany and visit some shops? One problem you might encounter is that a B-system CBA will be harder to find, as C-system is much more common in western Europe.

Good luck!

Many thanks for your thoughts. Great idea to phone somebody you're buying from online.

 

[losthobos]

I've bought and sold more accordions online than I can remember.....bit like girlfriends
Never a problem with the accordions....the girls a different matter....

 

[Reen49]

Hi Reen,

Are you looking for a converter or stradella only? What spec - 5-voice double cassotto or 3-voice entry level non-cassotto model? And buying new or used? You can put a "wanted" ad on this site.

Asking because I've got a task on my todo list to tune & service one of mine before I put it up for sale. Might be a couple months before I get to it though.

Dealers typically put a very high mark-up on their products - we're talking hundreds of %. In return, from a decent dealer you get the opportunity to try a few instruments in person, peace of mind that everything works & has been serviced and guarantee that it can be returned/issues fixed.
With an online dealer in another country you still get the full dealer mark-up, but you don't really get any other benefits. Even if the dealer is happy to fix any found issues "for free", the cost of shipping there & back can be prohibitive.
I'd say that a good local fettler is the way to go, and you can learn about his reputation from fellow players instead of online reviews generated by AI.

Thanks for your thoughts. As a complete beginner to CBA system I can't even answer some of your questions!! I suppose I'm looking for a not too heavy box preferably with 96 basses. I'm not a big fan of the musette sound and would like to use it to play classical and folk (assuming I get past learning scales)! I also want something that will be easy to sell on if I decide to upgrade or give up in the future. I've come from playing a particularly small Castignari Dinn diatonic so a lot of the accordions I've seen online will seem massive to me. I don't want more back ache or carpel tunnel essentially.

 

[SteveBox]

as I can't play a CBA

I'd like to buy a B Griff chromatic accordion and play classical music on it

Most beginners are asking the question "which is better, C or B system?" (Short answer: neither is better.) Even though you have never played a CBA, how is it you already know what keyboard system you want? Are you planning to teach yourself or find a teacher (in person or online)? Whatever you choose, it will take many years of practice to master the instrument.

As a beginner, you should probably look for a medium-size student level instrument. Once you start to get good, then you can plan to upgrade. What is your budget?

 

[Reen49]

Thanks for your comments. Yes, I agree that I don't want to start on something big and heavy. My budget isn't big unfortunately. I'm planning to sell my Castagnari Dinn II diatonic, which I think I would get slightly above €2k for and basically that's my budget for now.
I've found one shop that's got a Hohner Nova III and he's interested in swapping it for my one. I suspect mine is more saleable and I've read mixed reviews about the Chinese made Hohner Nova that suggest that might be a mistake. The size and ease of purchase is appealing though.
He's got a couple of other ones in a similar price bracket but I think they'd be too big and heavy and one of them has a midi and mic but otherwise sounds of interest. Maybe I just need to be patient.
My interest in the B system is because I see more of them being used to play classical music and I can find more online lessons for that system.
I downloaded an app called "Accordion Chromatic Cassoto" which is very interesting. I've tried both keyboards styles on that (hardly the same as playing an accordion obviously but gives me an idea of the layout at least.

 

[tcabot]

Swapping a Castagnari for a China-made Nova sounds like a fantastic deal.


For the shop.

 

[Reen49]

Yes, I agree

 

[SteveBox]

You would be swapping a near top-of-the-line diatonic for a low-end chromatic. However, CBAs are more complicated, thus more expensive. For €2k, you might be able to find a good used European-made CBA, even a German-made Hohner from a few decades ago.

If you are going to buy a Nova, maybe look for a used one. I have no experience with these, or the many similar ones on the market, but from what I have read, some beginners have been satisfied with the low-end Hohners, after initial problems were fixed. I once read a post by a forum member who runs an accordion shop and sells them. He said he almost always has to do a few hours work on these when they arrive new to fix manufacturing problems - and laments that Hohner will not pay him for this work.

 

[Reen49]

That's interesting thanks. I've heard and read so many things about the nova now that I feel I would never be able to sell it again and I'd be stuck with a poor quality beginner's instrument.

I'm actually considering the one below now, (which sounds like it will be heavy) but far superior. I'm just checking out some details with the seller but it sounds genuine. I think I can get it for €750. Looks very clean and it's from a genuine seller. I hope the weight won't be an issue though. I'm a 5'9" strong woman but 11kg is 11kg. What do you think? I won't be standing up playing it, that's for sure.

Zero Sette Chromatic C Griff Accordion, Castelfidardo. 3 Voice,Stradella system.
87 treble buttons (46 playing notes) - 120 bass buttons
5 treble - 3 bass registers
3/5 sets HF reeds LMM +15
24.5 lbs (11.1 kg).

 

[tcabot]

However, CBAs are more complicated, thus more expensive.

True, but the cost is not in manufacturing - factories can spit out stradella rollers and 5-row mechs about as fast as melodeon equivalents for pennies.
The bulk of the cost is in set-up labour and Nova's not going to have nearly the same amount of it as the casta.

Dinn reeds are TAM - that's second grade, acceptable quality (for most). I say £500 retail.
Nova reeds are advertised as "standard" which I read as godawful machine-stamped barely usable stuff at £150 for the whole box. And the time spent on factory set-up (gapping) is probably measured in minutes, not even hours.
While I think Castagnaris are very overpriced, at least there would have been a reasonable amount of labour invested into set up.

 

[SteveBox]

Also consider that if your interest is in classical music, you might want an accordion with a free-bass system, of which there are several types - another topic of discussion. These are often preferred for classical music.

However, you can leave that to the future, after you get good on a standard Stradella-bass accordion.

 

[Reen49]

Thank you for your thoughts. Very interesting. Yes, step one is to get started for sure.

 

[SteveBox]

I'm actually considering the one below now, (which sounds like it will be heavy) but far superior. I'm just checking out some details with the seller but it sounds genuine. I think I can get it for €750. Looks very clean and it's from a genuine seller. I hope the weight won't be an issue though. I'm a 5'9" strong woman but 11kg is 11kg. What do you think? I won't be standing up playing it, that's for sure.

Zero Sette is a top brand, and that's an excellent price, IF the accordion doesn't need a lot of tuning, and is in good condition internally. Any problems like that would cost extra to have fixed. Can you take it to a shop for evaluation? It is not B-griff.

I once had an accordion that large and heavy, but I wouldn't buy one today, as I have over the years grown to prefer the smaller sizes. However, I don't play classical music, only folk music for which the smaller CBAs with a three-octave range are suited just fine.

 

[Reen49]

Thanks, yes it sounds great except the weight. I started my concertina playing with a 42 button Jeffries concertina that the teacher was appalled at because of the weight. I didn't even know it wasn't the norm and it really didn't bother me. It was probably 1.5kg

 

[tcabot]

11kg is featherweight. If you want heavy, try 17kg. It's a CBA

Concertina and push-pull melodeon players turn weightweeneism into a cult. For other instruments weight does not really matter, as the bellows technique is a bit different.
Even for push-pull melodeon it's not the total weight, it's very specifically the weight and the balance of the bass end that matters. If your RHS was 5kg on its own, with 5 voices and double cassotto, it still won't have an effect on how nimble your left hand is for changing bellows direction.

Professional bayan players can squeeze their 18kg converter Jupiters and Polyanas for 8 hours a day. It's all in the technique.
Now, carrying the 18kg bugger up and down the stairs - that's a different matter

ZS might be a well-recognised brand, but if their entry-level (and that's an entry-level box) accordions had rubbish reeds, then the badge doesn't really matter.