Hohner Atlantic IV de Luxe

[oldbayan]

I am a CBA and diatonic player, but I wanted to give a try to a big PA, all I have at the moment is a little Hohner Student IV, which is fun but limited. A local seller was offering a cream-colored Atlantic IV in rough shape with the mention "needs TLC", for CAD $1000. When I asked about the meaning of this, he said he knows little about accordions, and did mention that the register switches were stuck and we could hear air when opening and closing the bellows... One week later, he changed the price to CAD $700, then $500. That got interesting. So I re-contacted the seller to at least have a look. I told myself, if I can get an Atlantic IV de Luxe for cheap and fix it, this might be the one. This model has the gold-colored register switches, so most likely the old line from the late 50's or early 60's.

I am handy with accordion repairs, and read what Paul De Bra said in earlier posts about the pallets leather and other things to look for in an Atlantic. The thing was in poor shape, the "air leak" was the bellows air valve stuck open, it also had the original leather on foam pad that had disintegrated. The bellows gasket is tight and soft. One of the register switches was broken, all the others were stuck and the accordion was set to play H only. The palm switch and sordina are gone. I managed to manually switch the registers to the other voices so I could check the sound. Everything sounded right, all pallets had been previously upgraded to new leather on felt. Only one of the M reeds sounded off. Looked like a realistic fixer-upper. Good shoulder straps. I took it home.

Boy, this thing is different from anything else I have seen! Especially the all-metal body construction. No bellows pins, half-size reed blocks. I fixed the bellows valve, disassembled and cleaned the register system (very complex with lots of super-tiny springs and e-clips). I had to make a little "puller" replacement part out of plastic for the H selector. Re-tuned the middle E reed that sounded off. The missing sordina and palm switch aren't an issue for me. Now I have a vintage Atlantic IV de Luxe to play! Nice sound. Massive low E bass. I like LMMH accordions.

 

[debra]

...

Boy, this thing is different from anything else I have seen! Especially the all-metal body construction. No bellows pins, half-size reed blocks. I fixed the bellows valve, disassembled and cleaned the register system (very complex with lots of super-tiny springs and e-clips). I had to make a little "puller" replacement part out of plastic for the H selector. Re-tuned the middle E reed that sounded off. The missing sordina and palm switch aren't an issue for me. Now I have a vintage Atlantic IV de Luxe to play! Nice sound. Massive low E bass. I like LMMH accordions.

Missing sordina! That's a big no-no for the Atlantic IV (de luxe or not). Most people I know who have an Atlantic IV (not the N version) play with the sordina closed all the time. This changes the sound from unbearably sharp to "reasonably mellow for a non-cassotto accordion".
For me the sordina is what makes me almost ready to forgive Hohner for the cheap metal construction (much cheaper to build than a wooden accordion), the half-size reed blocks made out of the cheapest wood, with just cardboard for their base instead of wood...

 

[oldbayan]

Missing sordina! That's a big no-no for the Atlantic IV (de luxe or not). Most people I know who have an Atlantic IV (not the N version) play with the sordina closed all the time. This changes the sound from unbearably sharp to "reasonably mellow for a non-cassotto accordion".
For me the sordina is what makes me almost ready to forgive Hohner for the cheap metal construction (much cheaper to build than a wooden accordion), the half-size reed blocks made out of the cheapest wood, with just cardboard for their base instead of wood...

I play mostly Western and Eastern European dance music in balfolk events. Volume is a requirement But I have heard Atlantics with the muffler on, and it sounds nice indeed. I figure that for CAD $500 it's still a good squeezebox.

 

[Dingo40]

This is what we're talking about ?

Another :

 

[debra]

I play mostly Western and Eastern European dance music in balfolk events. Volume is a requirement But I have heard Atlantics with the muffler on, and it sounds nice indeed. I figure that for CAD $500 it's still a good squeezebox.

You certainly got a reasonable deal for the old Atlantic (even considering the work it needed, like replacing the disintegrated form pallets by new felt+leather ones). And if you need maximum sound volume then the sordino is not something you want. A thin layer of felt under then grille could also help to get rid of some of the sharpness of the tone while still keeping most of the volume (a thick layer would not, obviously). But you could not turn it on or off except by removing the grille to play "Richard Galliano style".

 

[boxplayer4000]

Hohner Atlantic 1VDeLuxe.
Double octave tuning is less popular than full musette in this neck of the woods and being less familiar with piccolo reeds I bought the instrument below on eBay between 20 and 30 years ago so that I could come to terms with the smaller reeds.
Unfortunately, on getting the instrument home and removing the grille I found that the sound muffling blind (sordino) had been removed. Fortunately I had a friend who preferred to play his Atlantic without the sordino and the problem was solved!!
It might have been in this accordion that I first noticed that the treble reed blocks had been made in two pieces. My engineering training background led me to believe that halving the length of the wooden blocks probably reduced the chances of wood distortion in the long term and that the halving design was probably a good one. (Repairers will be very familiar with wood distortion in reed blocks etc. and will have their sheet of glass/sandpaper to hand.) I can only assume that since the design was not carried forward to later models (that I know of) that Hohner resorted to full size blocks simply because of space considerations.
I failed to pick up on the reed blocks being made with a cheap wood. The base and crown of reed blocks are normally of a harder wood while the middle reed bearing chamber is usually of a softer wood (often pine) but I noticed no quickly grown, wider grained (or knotted) wood having been used. I’ll certainly look again when I have an Atlantic for repair.

The wood versus metal construction is certainly one for discussion but I suspect, at the end of the day, it will simply boil down to an individual’s personal preference.
One clear difference between Italian and German made accordions is that Italian ones use much more varnish finishes on internal wooden parts. Like other wooden instruments (violins etc.) I have associated the varnish use with reducing the sound energy absorbed the wood and increasing the energy being reflected. Of course metal construction (such as that in the Atlantics) goes some way to achieving those objectives, without using varnish but again the argument is wide open to both accordions and violins as ’sound boxes’ shaping the final sound.


I tend to think of the Atlantic range as ‘experimental’ with their use of metal bodies, half-size reed blocks etc. (were the bellows locking device on the top of the bass end 'new' in the Atlantic range?) and can only look in awe how even 70+ years later they are still holding a good price and are sought after for restoration.


P.S. The Atlantic 1V DeLuxe I mentioned at the beginning of this piece changed my mind about accordions after it had been restored. The L,M and P reeds tuned all in a row and played under the sordino was a sound which was new to me and made me appreciate an ‘accordion’ sound even more.

 

[Pipemajor]

Hohner Atlantic 1VDeLuxe.
Double octave tuning is less popular than full musette in this neck of the woods and being less familiar with piccolo reeds I bought the instrument below on eBay between 20 and 30 years ago so that I could come to terms with the smaller reeds.
Unfortunately, on getting the instrument home and removing the grille I found that the sound muffling blind (sordino) had been removed. Fortunately I had a friend who preferred to play his Atlantic without the sordino and the problem was solved!!
It might have been in this accordion that I first noticed that the treble reed blocks had been made in two pieces. My engineering training background led me to believe that halving the length of the wooden blocks probably reduced the chances of wood distortion in the long term and that the halving design was probably a good one. (Repairers will be very familiar with wood distortion in reed blocks etc. and will have their sheet of glass/sandpaper to hand.) I can only assume that since the design was not carried forward to later models (that I know of) that Hohner resorted to full size blocks simply because of space considerations.
I failed to pick up on the reed blocks being made with a cheap wood. The base and crown of reed blocks are normally of a harder wood while the middle reed bearing chamber is usually of a softer wood (often pine) but I noticed no quickly grown, wider grained (or knotted) wood having been used. I’ll certainly look again when I have an Atlantic for repair.

The wood versus metal construction is certainly one for discussion but I suspect, at the end of the day, it will simply boil down to an individual’s personal preference.
One clear difference between Italian and German made accordions is that Italian ones use much more varnish finishes on internal wooden parts. Like other wooden instruments (violins etc.) I have associated the varnish use with reducing the sound energy absorbed the wood and increasing the energy being reflected. Of course metal construction (such as that in the Atlantics) goes some way to achieving those objectives, without using varnish but again the argument is wide open to both accordions and violins as ’sound boxes’ shaping the final sound.


I tend to think of the Atlantic range as ‘experimental’ with their use of metal bodies, half-size reed blocks etc. (were the bellows locking device on the top of the bass end 'new' in the Atlantic range?) and can only look in awe how even 70+ years later they are still holding a good price and are sought after for restoration.


P.S. The Atlantic 1V DeLuxe I mentioned at the beginning of this piece changed my mind about accordions after it had been restored. The L,M and P reeds tuned all in a row and played under the sordino was a sound which was new to me and made me appreciate an ‘accordion’ sound even more.

I see you have one of the the Willy Ross Collections of pipeing books there. Good choice.
I have the complete set

 

[Tom]

……A thin layer of felt under then grille could also help to get rid of some of the sharpness of the tone while still keeping most of the volume (a thick layer would not, obviously)……

Say Paul, will this work on any accordion? Thanks! (Asking for a friend with a Piatanesi De Luxe ).

 

[Ventura]

acoustics are acoustics, whether in a Studio or in an Accordion,
physical objects CAN be used as tone controls

the trick is to affect the frequency range where you percieve
the problem to be

typically in an accordion, the perception is too much
high-end/treble. The higher the frequency, the more
directional it is. The lower the frequency, the more widely
it spreads (and why it takes more energy to push it)

so high frequencies can be controlled with angles that will trap
some of the energy, and not allow it to bounce off and then out
of the grill area, meaning if there are strips of bare aluminum facing
in under the grill, and you felt them, you can affect the high frequencies
more than the low ones, changing the overall brightness to the
first row of listeners

if you want to get fancy, should you cut and trim thicker pieces of felt
strips into a more pyramid shape then glue them on, they will be
more effective by restricting more angles of bounce

treble bounces around a lot on the way out, bass more rolls it's way out

the wider areas, like the sides of the grill which are usually not part
of the decorative element, being felted will affect a wider range of frequencies,
as would the big flat areas under the keyboard which can often also be
judiciously felted quite a bit without compromising the spring action

if you cover the open area under the grill, you affect all frequencies
as well as lowering the volume as well as changing possibly your
squeeze dynamic (there is a damn good reason speaker cabinet
cloth does NOT restrict air passage at all)

thoughtful application of shapes and material can be used
as physical tone control, trial and error part of the process..
use tacky glue not Super glue until you figure it out !

 

[Tom]

acoustics are acoustics, whether in a Studio or in an Accordion,
physical objects CAN be used as tone controls

the trick is to affect the frequency range where you percieve
the problem to be

typically in an accordion, the perception is too much
high-end/treble. The higher the frequency, the more
directional it is. The lower the frequency, the more widely
it spreads (and why it takes more energy to push it)

so high frequencies can be controlled with angles that will trap
some of the energy, and not allow it to bounce off and then out
of the grill area, meaning if there are strips of bare aluminum facing
in under the grill, and you felt them, you can affect the high frequencies
more than the low ones, changing the overall brightness to the
first row of listeners

if you want to get fancy, should you cut and trim thicker pieces of felt
strips into a more pyramid shape then glue them on, they will be
more effective by restricting more angles of bounce

treble bounces around a lot on the way out, bass more rolls it's way out

the wider areas, like the sides of the grill which are usually not part
of the decorative element, being felted will affect a wider range of frequencies,
as would the big flat areas under the keyboard which can often also be
judiciously felted quite a bit without compromising the spring action

if you cover the open area under the grill, you affect all frequencies
as well as lowering the volume as well as changing possibly your
squeeze dynamic (there is a damn good reason speaker cabinet
cloth does NOT restrict air passage at all)

thoughtful application of shapes and material can be used
as physical tone control, trial and error part of the process..
use tacky glue not Super glue until you figure it out !

Thanks Ventura!

 

[debra]

Say Paul, will this work on any accordion? Thanks! (Asking for a friend with a Piatanesi De Luxe ).

Yes, felt works great. For example, a friend of mine has a Fantini without cassotto. The reeds at the front sound sharper than the reeds near the back, "hidden" under the register mechanism. So I placed a strip of felt (about 5cm or 2" wide) under the grille at the front (all along the curved part of the grille. This evened out the sound just fine. Happier friend after that. (He still prefers accordions with cassotto though.)

 

[Tom]

Yes, felt works great. For example, a friend of mine has a Fantini without cassotto. The reeds at the front sound sharper than the reeds near the back, "hidden" under the register mechanism. So I placed a strip of felt (about 5cm or 2" wide) under the grille at the front (all along the curved part of the grille. This evened out the sound just fine. Happier friend after that. (He still prefers accordions with cassotto though.)

Thanks Paul! I gotta try this when I have some time. I can definitely tell the difference a cassotto makes and may be damaged for life because of it!

 

[debra]

Thanks Paul! I gotta try this when I have some time. I can definitely tell the difference a cassotto makes and may be damaged for life because of it!

There was a post some time ago about someone who instead of using felt made an "insert" that was a snug fit inside the grille, out of cardboard. That cardboard "grille" acted a bit like a tone chamber and produced much of a cassotto effect, but of course it then created that effect for all reed banks (like a sordino, and not like a cassotto which is often just L and M (16 and 8 foot).

 

[debra]

Some people go to extremes to change the sound of their accordions.
Have a look at the duo in the video below. They modified/replaced the grille completely to change the not so desirable sound of their Pigini and Jupiter bayans into something more pleasing.

 

[PhiliGol]

There was a post some time ago about someone who instead of using felt made an "insert" that was a snug fit inside the grille, out of cardboard. That cardboard "grille" acted a bit like a tone chamber and produced much of a cassotto effect, but of course it then created that effect for all reed banks (like a sordino, and not like a cassotto which is often just L and M (16 and 8 foot).

Eventually Paul is referring to my earlier post:
Poor man's cassotto
A simple hood made of cardboard fitted under the grille (similar to what you can find in some Hohner Atlantic's) which has a very positive effect on the out-of-chamber 8" voice.

 

[debra]

Eventually Paul is referring to my earlier post:
Poor man's cassotto
A simple hood made of cardboard fitted under the grille (similar to what you can find in some Hohner Atlantic's) which has a very positive effect on the out-of-chamber 8" voice.

Thanks for posting the link again! It's hard to retrieve old posts on this forum...
I have now bookmarked the post in my browser!

 

[dak]

I can only assume that since the design was not carried forward to later models (that I know of) that Hohner resorted to full size blocks simply because of space considerations.

The Atlantic de Luxe is the budget end culmination of a Hohner Renaissance under technical direction of "Dr Dorner", a son-in-law to the Hohner company head. The higher end result were the Hohner Imperator models. Dorner made for a lot of technical innovation (of course also a number of duds) including Hohner's own reed set production and the metal frame constructions. However, the Imperators were actually produced at a loss since company policy required that they must not outprice the Morino line, meaning that the technical rejuvenation was not really benefitting the financial standing of the company, particularly because of the required investments.

When Hohner subsequently consolidated construction, outsourcing a lot of work to Italy, the new developments had to be canned since they would not be a good fit to the capabilities available in Italy (and in the case of the Imperator were not even profitable). Hohner could no longer afford to sustain development in technologically unique directions that would force it to depend on in-house capacities. Or so the reasoning went. Even after outsourcing and standardization, profitability remained elusive enough that in the end it could pay off its Taiwanese part producers and creditors only by selling them the company ownership.

How would the development have played out if they had moved production to Taiwan immediately without first adjusting it to the possibilities of outsourcing to established accordion manufacturing lines? Who knows. As it is, the rush of innovation that the Atlantic is a witness for was not continued and the bleeding edge bled out.

 

[oldbayan]

The Atlantic de Luxe is the budget end culmination of a Hohner Renaissance under technical direction of "Dr Dorner", a son-in-law to the Hohner company head. The higher end result were the Hohner Imperator models. Dorner made for a lot of technical innovation (of course also a number of duds) including Hohner's own reed set production and the metal frame constructions. However, the Imperators were actually produced at a loss since company policy required that they must not outprice the Morino line, meaning that the technical rejuvenation was not really benefitting the financial standing of the company, particularly because of the required investments.

(...)

Still, the Atlantic IV de Luxe in its few iterations was produced between 1953 and 1987 according to the Hohner catalog of models! That is a long production run.

There are many still in use today, and many are being traded on the various e-commerce platforms every day.

 

[debra]

Still, the Atlantic IV de Luxe in its few iterations was produced between 1953 and 1987 according to the Hohner catalog of models! That is a long production run.

There are many still in use today, and many are being traded on the various e-commerce platforms every day.

The real Atlantic IV de luxe was only produced between 1953 and 1960. After that came the N, S and T. I have never seen an S or T. People were probably so bitterly disappointed with the IV N that nobody wanted to buy the S or T. I only see the original IV and the IV N around.