How to avoid the waltz beats in left hand in <Nocturne Op. 9, No. 2>?

[zqd9853572002]

I found an interesting music sheet here, but anyone know how to play the left hand to avoid to like a waltz beats? I know not to make the first beat hard, but should I also make the second and third beat longer, or say make three beats be even to each other?

http://www.818daily.com/sheets/chopin-nocturne-op-9-no-2

 

[debra]

Use the "slur" between the second and third note of each triplet as joining the two notes into one. So a staccato base note followed by on long chord. That removes the um pah pah feeling. It becomes more like short-um paaaaaah, etc. If you want to keep the chords separate instead of joined, make them as long as possible, like a short-um paaaah paaaah.

 

[zqd9853572002]

Use the "slur" between the second and third note of each triplet as joining the two notes into one. So a staccato base note followed by on long chord. That removes the um pah pah feeling. It becomes more like short-um paaaaaah, etc. If you want to keep the chords separate instead of joined, make them as long as possible, like a short-um paaaah paaaah.

Thank you De Bra, I will try your method.

 

[dak]

If we take a look at the original, we have

There is a short bass note, followed by two sparse chord inversions. This is supposed to be pedaled, but the pedaling does not make sense unless it starts after the staccato note (or there is no point on, I mean in the staccato). Which means that the chord gets filled in/reinforced. On an acoustic accordion you can try to fudge this effect with shallow and deep button touch and no or a very half-hearted release in between. For the second group, you can start with E♭ major and only add E♭7 on the last of the three eighths. There will only be few opportunities for that particular trick, so you would want to use this as a model of the articulation you use on the other groups to make-belief. It's too late right now for me to unleash the accordion, so I cannot vouch for this being a load of bull, but experimenting in that direction might at least give you ideas.

For the "almost imperceptable release" it tends to be a workable idea to combine it with a finger alternation: that tends to end up smoother. If your finger size permits it.

 

[zqd9853572002]

If we take a look at the original, we have

There is a short bass note, followed by two sparse chord inversions. This is supposed to be pedaled, but the pedaling does not make sense unless it starts after the staccato note (or there is no point on, I mean in the staccato). Which means that the chord gets filled in/reinforced. On an acoustic accordion you can try to fudge this effect with shallow and deep button touch and no or a very half-hearted release in between. For the second group, you can start with E♭ major and only add E♭7 on the last of the three eighths. There will only be few opportunities for that particular trick, so you would want to use this as a model of the articulation you use on the other groups to make-belief. It's too late right now for me to unleash the accordion, so I cannot vouch for this being a load of bull, but experimenting in that direction might at least give you ideas.

For the "almost imperceptable release" it tends to be a workable idea to combine it with a finger alternation: that tends to end up smoother. If your finger size permits it.

Thank you Dak. I like these methods "On an acoustic accordion you can try to fudge this effect with shallow and deep button touch and no or a very half-hearted release in between. For the second group, you can start with E♭ major and only add E♭7 on the last of the three eighths."

I am trying to connect the 2nd beat and the 3rd by make the note full of the beat, or even make the 2nd beat longer so it could "intrude" a little bit (may be 1/8 or 1/4 beat not a lot) into the 3rd beat to eliminate the "jump feeling" between them. I admit this method let me to think this music as Monet's Water Lilies, but that's my understanding of this piece of Nocturne. Yes, I also use different finger and guesture to make the imperceptable release smoother, a little bit challenge, but not a lot. Thank you a lot.

 

[JKJ]

I meant to comment on this thread a few days ago but got busy (with MRIs, doctor visits, etc. ack!). This is one of my favorite pieces on the piano, showcasing Chopin’s brilliance. Since I’m new to the accordion I’m not ready to even think about trying that! In fact I haven’t even played it on the piano for years but when I sat down recently my fingers still remembered much of it! (I was surprised)

First, the piece IS generally thought of as a waltz, or at least waltz-like, but soft and quiet as suggested by the ”Nocturne” descriptor and, of course, Chopin’s instructions. And while I certainly agree that the “oom pah pah” sound isn’t right, I’m having difficulty imagining how it can be played effectively on an accordion lacking individual key dynamics in both hands, especially how to express the chords to bring out the prominent top note ”melody” in the left hand on the piano score. Those chords are mostly but not always simple inversions creating a beautiful and haunting sonic landscape under the incredible right hand melody - I think the piece would be significantly compromised if the two chords in the left hand were not somehow distinguished. As an accordion newbee I‘m not sure how that could be done without significant expertise, at least on a stradella bass keyboard.

The point about the apparent bass staccato and pedal conflict in the original score is one I asked my own piano teacher (maybe 40 years ago!) I was taught to think of it more as an accent than a “real” staccato. A youtube search brought me this video which explains this better that I’ve heard anywhere. In fact, it’s the best I’ve seen at describing the entire composition (at least on the piano, of course). He (Antune) talks about the staccato early in the video at about 1:24 and again later, and elsewhere resolves the seeming conflict about the various pedal markings throughout the piece.



As a piano player I give the video 5 stars but the overall insight he gives could be useful for any instrument. I imagine it could be beautiful in a trio, maybe with at least one accordion. Oh, he offers a free download of the piano sheet music (with his fingering) which might be useful.

Antune’s interpretation in this video inspired me to relearn the piece on the piano from scratch - unfortunately with surgery scheduled Thursday for a left shoulder AC separation it will probably be a few months before I can start (the recent injury also tanks my accordion progress for now but that’s life!)

JK

 

[Dingo40]

let's hear how you get on with the operation!

 

[Tom]

I meant to comment on this thread a few days ago but got busy (with MRIs, doctor visits, etc. ack!). This is one of my favorite pieces on the piano, showcasing Chopin’s brilliance. Since I’m new to the accordion I’m not ready to even think about trying that! In fact I haven’t even played it on the piano for years but when I sat down recently my fingers still remembered much of it! (I was surprised)

First, the piece IS generally thought of as a waltz, or at least waltz-like, but soft and quiet as suggested by the ”Nocturne” descriptor and, of course, Chopin’s instructions. And while I certainly agree that the “oom pah pah” sound isn’t right, I’m having difficulty imagining how it can be played effectively on an accordion lacking individual key dynamics in both hands, especially how to express the chords to bring out the prominent top note ”melody” in the left hand on the piano score. Those chords are mostly but not always simple inversions creating a beautiful and haunting sonic landscape under the incredible right hand melody - I think the piece would be significantly compromised if the two chords in the left hand were not somehow distinguished. As an accordion newbee I‘m not sure how that could be done without significant expertise, at least on a stradella bass keyboard.

The point about the apparent bass staccato and pedal conflict in the original score is one I asked my own piano teacher (maybe 40 years ago!) I was taught to think of it more as an accent than a “real” staccato. A youtube search brought me this video which explains this better that I’ve heard anywhere. In fact, it’s the best I’ve seen at describing the entire composition (at least on the piano, of course). He (Antune) talks about the staccato early in the video at about 1:24 and again later, and elsewhere resolves the seeming conflict about the various pedal markings throughout the piece.



As a piano player I give the video 5 stars but the overall insight he gives could be useful for any instrument. I imagine it could be beautiful in a trio, maybe with at least one accordion. Oh, he offers a free download of the piano sheet music (with his fingering) which might be useful.

Antune’s interpretation in this video inspired me to relearn the piece on the piano from scratch - unfortunately with surgery scheduled Thursday for a left shoulder AC separation it will probably be a few months before I can start (the recent injury also tanks my accordion progress for now but that’s life!)

JK

Best of luck to you JK!

 

[dak]

I meant to comment on this thread a few days ago but got busy (with MRIs, doctor visits, etc. ack!). This is one of my favorite pieces on the piano, showcasing Chopin’s brilliance. Since I’m new to the accordion I’m not ready to even think about trying that! In fact I haven’t even played it on the piano for years but when I sat down recently my fingers still remembered much of it! (I was surprised)

First, the piece IS generally thought of as a waltz, or at least waltz-like, but soft and quiet as suggested by the ”Nocturne” descriptor and, of course, Chopin’s instructions. And while I certainly agree that the “oom pah pah” sound isn’t right, I’m having difficulty imagining how it can be played effectively on an accordion lacking individual key dynamics in both hands, especially how to express the chords to bring out the prominent top note ”melody” in the left hand on the piano score. Those chords are mostly but not always simple inversions creating a beautiful and haunting sonic landscape under the incredible right hand melody - I think the piece would be significantly compromised if the two chords in the left hand were not somehow distinguished. As an accordion newbee I‘m not sure how that could be done without significant expertise, at least on a stradella bass keyboard.

Well, with a CBA and appropriate experience, you could try to pick off the left hand melody into your right thumb. But that would be quite less subtle than what Chopin does. Standard bass has its limitations. I found that the "chord work" of Edvard Grieg, for example, doesn't map to the Stradella inventory at all.

Wish you luck (and the surgeon success) with your shoulder!