Interested in buying a Chromatic button bayan

[Jaime_Dergut]

Hello there,


recently, I got interested into Bayan accordions, which are said to be different from the most commonly know western Italian ones. I also would like to learn how to play the button layout and I think doing it with a bayan will be suitable.

So, what would be your thoughts about this?

I heard that the reeds of the bayan ones are different (they are squared) and so they produce a louder sound, which I think is great.
I would like to get a vintage one so it doesn't get too expensive.


Here are ones that I was looking at Etsy:

Bayan Dawn

Belorus Ukrainian

Personally, I would like to get a light bayan made in Ukraine, but we will see.
I will appreciate your advice on this.

Thanks for your attention,

Regards,

Jaime

 

[fogman25]

I purchased a couple of these from Ukraine a few years ago . The sound is good and mechanically fine. The only problem is one of them is so infused with tobacco smell I cannot play it or in good conscience sell it. Beware !

 

[Dingo40]

...one of them is so infused with tobacco smell I cannot play it...

Plenty of determined airing will eventually fix it !
One I have stank of tobacco smoke. It's fresh as a daisy now.
Even the bass board had yellow nicotine stains. Toothpaste on a soft rag, carefully applied, fixed them.
One good side effect is that it escaped any damage by moths!

 

[debra]

These smaller vintage bayans are much more like Italian accordions than the large concert bayans we see and hear being played by masters...
The small ones have one reed plate per note for instance, not the large multi-note reed plates that contribute to the "bayan sound" we know...
So it will be a matter of expectations. Also with these old small bayans the "you get what you pay for" principle holds, at least to some extent.

 

[donn]

Does this one have the bayan sound we know? To me, it's a little too sweet sounding in the treble.
Bayan Polisia. Updated video

 

[fogman25]

Plenty of determined airing will eventually fix it !
One I have stank of tobacco smoke. It's fresh as a daisy now.
Even the bass board had yellow nicotine stains. Toothpaste on a soft rag, carefully applied, fixed them.
One good side effect is that it escaped any damage by moths!

Thanks for advice. I want my bayan to smell as fresh as a daisy.. It is getting better as I leave it out.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

I purchased a couple of these from Ukraine a few years ago . The sound is good and mechanically fine. The only problem is one of them is so infused with tobacco smell I cannot play it or in good conscience sell it. Beware !

Good point about the bayans being infused with tobacco. Something to consider.

These smaller vintage bayans are much more like Italian accordions than the large concert bayans we see and hear being played by masters...
The small ones have one reed plate per note for instance, not the large multi-note reed plates that contribute to the "bayan sound" we know...
So it will be a matter of expectations. Also with these old small bayans the "you get what you pay for" principle holds, at least to some extent.

Then it may not be worth it to buy it, if I can't have that sound from those multi-note reed plates.
What bayan would you recommend to get? I'm looking for something that has enough buttons to properly learn the Chromatic button layout and have fun in the process.

 

[petch]

What bayan would you recommend to get?

It's very difficult (and morally questionable) to order a new bayan at the moment - unless you're happy with an Italian 'bayan' that will have Italian reeds instead of the bayan reeds - but be prepared to spend an extortionate amount of money!

And if you're looking at second hand it's even hard to recommend something because there are so few on the market (besides those heavily inflated although still low cost) Soviet-era bayans flooding sites like etsy

 

[Ffingers]

Good point about the bayans being infused with tobacco. Something to consider.



Then it may not be worth it to buy it, if I can't have that sound from those multi-note reed plates.
What bayan would you recommend to get? I'm looking for something that has enough buttons to properly learn the Chromatic button layout and have fun in the process.

Black Diamond in th UK was selling upgraded CBAs with B griff - perhaps the UK contingent could advise.

 

[debra]

It's very difficult (and morally questionable) to order a new bayan at the moment - unless you're happy with an Italian 'bayan' that will have Italian reeds instead of the bayan reeds - but be prepared to spend an extortionate amount of money!

And if you're looking at second hand it's even hard to recommend something because there are so few on the market (besides those heavily inflated although still low cost) Soviet-era bayans flooding sites like etsy

With a bit of patience it is possible to find older concert bayans in sufficiently acceptable state in order to have them fully restored by someone like Evgeny Novikov (mirbajana) from Ukraine. Should be morally acceptable.
It is also still more or less acceptable to buy a new bayan from Zonta from Belarus. They are still in business and do business with the West.
But we're talking an order of magnitude difference in price versus old clunkers you find on sites like etsy...

 

[debra]

Does this one have the bayan sound we know? To me, it's a little too sweet sounding in the treble.
Bayan Polisia. Updated video

This one could just as well have been an old worn-out Italian accordion. And it should also not cost more than a similar old Italian or German accordion... A "real bayan" is a completely different beast.

 

[Ventura]

there are sweet old 3 row bayans from Tula floating around in the USA
and usually a few hundred dollars will be the Craigslist price

they are difficult to ship, however, as the Bass mechanism is different than
an Italian, and one good jolt can turn the bass into a pile of pick-up-stiks

an old Polish friend told me they made them with 3 rows back then
because so many of the old soldiers only had a few fingers left
after the War

i still have that old "mechta" that i pull out occasionally for fun

 

[petch]

Black Diamond in th UK was selling upgraded CBAs with B griff - perhaps the UK contingent could advise.

Sadly they seem to have sold off remaining stock and shut up shop

 

[fogman25]

Why not get a midi button chromatic accordion like roland ? There are bayan sound sets or external modules which are certainly good enough to learn with. When you are at intermediate or pro level get a real Bayan and sell the roland if you want.
The sound output and satisfaction of playing the midi instrument is much improved with a good 100 watt or larger acoustic guitar type amp. This would especially be true for playing bayan where you want those amazing bass sounds. I used internal speakers and smaller guitar amps and pc monitor speakers for a while but the larger amp makes all the difference.

 

[Jaime_Dergut]

Why not get a midi button chromatic accordion like roland ? There are bayan sound sets or external modules which are certainly good enough to learn with. When you are at intermediate or pro level get a real Bayan and sell the roland if you want.
The sound output and satisfaction of playing the midi instrument is much improved with a good 100 watt or larger acoustic guitar type amp. This would especially be true for playing bayan where you want those amazing bass sounds. I used internal speakers and smaller guitar amps and pc monitor speakers for a while but the larger amp makes all the difference.

I think you are right. I should save for a real Bayan once I have enough mastery to deserve it.

I'ts far easier and convenient to find a button Chromatic accordion here in the states just for learning.

 

[Ventura]

speak of the devil... this morning that ad popped up again..
take this with a grain of salt..
he has been using the same pic for years and years and the price
has floated between $350 and $650 numerous times

button accordion- bayan - musical instruments - by owner - sale

Button Accordion Tula 202-bayan made in Russia 650$ 18 ave Coney Island Ave Brooklyn tel: Stanley accordion lessons уроки игры на баяне

newyork.craigslist.org

basically, i think it is a recurring ad to find anyone even remotely curious for bayan
then he probably has a multitude of them to offer including lessons..
i do not think it is a bait and switch, just a way to beat the bushes

 

[tcabot]

@Jaime_Dergut
One thing to keep in mind is that in Soviet land there were professional level instruments for the very few highly talented musicians - these were custom-build hand-made top of the range boxes for their times that could have easily rivalled any other box in the world.
Unfortunately, most had a 3-row keyboard which is severely inferior to the 5-row one (i.e. it will take you a lot more effort to learn how to play a 3-row compared to a 5-row and even if you have a very good teacher, you'll often find your hand in highly uncomfortable positions). I think the 3 rows were being built & played even by the end of the 20th century on ideological grounds, because they didn't want to follow the western 5-row trends and no musicians fancied a long stay in gulag for merely suggesting that a 5-row system is much better. Took quite a few decades to realise that the B-system is much better to be played on 5 rows.

>90% of mass-produced stuff for regular Iosef Bloggsov was unplayable. Horrible boxes quickly slapped together using materials that were offcuts from other industries* by poorly qualified factory workers who really couldn't give a damn about their products. Many left the factories with a long list of defects, because there was no quality control. You really don't want anything to do with these boxes. Many fail to be sold for $50 in Eastern Europe as nobody wants them and they are not worth the repairing costs, but there's a bunch of crooks on online platforms trying to shift these horrors to unsuspecting foreigners for $500-$1000-$2000-$3000 you name it.
As a rule of thumb, if you see a bayan on ebay/etsy/etc it's at least 5 times overpriced...

Modern bayans (top of the range instruments at top of the range prices) usually have an Italian-made right hand side and Russian-made left hand side, so buying a readily available button accordion of the same quality in the US won't get you too far from the modern concert bayan anyway.
The special bayan reeds are only used for the bass side's low notes and are a matter of taste. I think they are phenomenal in a free-bass instrument, but can be really overpowering for a chord-bass box. I've been told that in Italy such bass reeds are jokingly referred to as "tractor bass" for their characteristic growl that reminds me of old landrover engines.

If you do go after a bayan, you need to know exactly what you're buying and who you are buying it from. Even if you identify an old pro-level box, it might have been great at the time it was made but would have seen years and years of very active use and might have been played to death.

*I'm not exaggerating. There was some infamous soviet-era book on guitar manufacturing, where the chapter on tonewoods began with "Guitars are built using the wood offcuts from the furniture-making industry"

 

[Marty S]

Playing a PA, I too wanted to try to learn buttons and a converter, but didn’t want to spend much money at least until I saw what I thought about it. Eventually I decided to go with the B-system, partly because I thought the “Russian” free-bass orientation would be better for my purposes — reading off piano/organ music — and found these “cheaper” bayans, and I was also quite curious about the much-touted “big bass” bayan sound.

So now this Tula Rubin 6 — an older, basic-model converter bayan — just arrived from Ukraine. Ordered it on July 14, it arrived in town here August 7. (Going through various customs inspections Ukraine to Poland, then FedEx to eastern WA, US. It then took me all week to get it in my hands from FedEx, and they would’ve sent it back to Poland where it probably would’ve disappeared forever except for a last-ditch measure on my part and the good work of a FedEx agent. Just another FedEx horror story that at least turned out well.)

Other than that little shipping detail and a couple minor squawks — to be expected with a 40-year old instrument — it is in fine condition and I’m very happy with it so far, so I can recommend Harmony Musical Workshop (UK) as a place to at least see what they have if you want a used (or new) bayan. I punched in “converter bayan” on their website “accordion-bayan.com” where they had a few new and used bayans. They say the used ones are completely inspected and refurbished as needed, with a 14-day full-refund guarantee, and the price ($700) was right so I took the plunge. Since they didn’t mention anything about a case (whereas they did mention about that for their other used bayans) I also ordered a gig bag ($40). They seem to be on the up and up.

I just got it yesterday so I don’t have much to say about it yet, but it does seem to be of decent quality with a good sound overall and that strong bass. I practiced scales in my mind before I got it, so now I’ll work on building up speed with both hands and some simple tunes. It’s true what I read here somewhere (by Paul?) that the bayan right-hand buttons are a little stiffer to push but that’s just something to get used to, also that the Stradella diminished column is one row down from the “Italian way”, but that’s not a problem at all. Both sides have stepped buttons which I initially don’t particularly like, but it’s too early to decide on many things. I’m ordering “The Art of Bayan Playing” by Friedrich Lips. From the reviews, I think it should help with fingering and other matters.

I can write more later if anyone wants, but right now I hear it calling me to come and practice. I haven’t named it yet — some female Russian name, preferably lilting and easy to say. My PA is Lizzie. (But then I name my cars and planes too.)

 

[Siegmund]

Glad to hear your adventure had a happy ending. (And hello from another B-system player in the same neighborhood. That makes 2 of us now...)

 

[tcabot]

Rubins were made in Kirov, not Tula - only a few hundred miles between them .

A lot of them are still in use today despite having 3-row keyboards in the right hand side, as they were the student-level converter workhorse - pretty much the only affordable accordion with a converter that still worked and sounded OK. If it comes with warranty and the converter mechanism has actually been overhauled (as opposed to Vasily-the-neighbour casting a quick eyeball over it and saying "Horosho"), this is not a bad purchase (I saw the same shop trying to shift the same accordions for $1,000 in the UK previously, but I see on the website that that their prices are coming back from their trip to the moon).