Interested in learning, but looking for advice

[Hoodoo]

Hello everybody,

I'm an amateur "classic fingerstyle" banjoist, but I recently purchased an album of vaudeville accordion by Guido Deiro, performed by Henry Dotkorski.

I'm not sure if its just a phase (which is why i'm not going to make any sudden moves for now), but its definitely this style of accordion that i'd like to learn to play one day.

I understand that its being played with a piano accordion, but other than that, my knowledge is quite limited.

I'm wondering, when I begin looking for an instrument to purchase, what should I be looking for? Are there any newish models for $500-1000$ say or will I be better off trying to find something used.

I know of a few accordionists in my area, but i'm not sure if they'd be willing to teach.

Having studied piano when I was a kid (over 20 years ago) and most of the classic banjo repertoire being in standard notation, my music reading skills are mediocre, but I can get by.
I'm wondering if its a difficult instrument to learn on my own?

Thanks

 

[maugein96]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

Firstly, whilst I'm not really familiar with the accordion music you speak about, most accordionists will have heard of the Deiro brothers, and they had an influence in accordion music worldwide. They played piano accordion (which you'll see abbreviated as PA on here) to distinguish it from other accordion types which do not feature piano keys.

Secondly, you'll probably be looking for a fairly well used secondhand model at that budget, but you should be able to pick one up in reasonable shape. To play Deiro type music you ideally need a 41 piano key 120 bass instrument. Accordions cost a lot of money to fix, and remember an accordion which looks OK might need over $500 dollars spent on it to get it into a playable condition. I appreciate you are in Canada and I've quoted US prices.

Remember that the recording you have purchased was played by a virtuoso player who began to play as a very young child, and most virtuosi started off as child players.

I played guitar for over 20 years before I started off on accordion when I was 32, and decided to teach myself, having a modicum of musical knowledge and being able to sight read for trumpet, which I only played for a few years at school.

Is the accordion difficult to play? It really depends on where you want to go with it, linked to any natural musical ability you may have. Biggest issue (for me) was trying to cope with two different keyboards at the same time. Your piano background may give you an advantage with your right hand, so the left hand (bass) side might not prove so much of a challenge. I started off with two unfamiliar button keyboards which took rather a long time to get the hang of, and even now I still rely on printed chord names for the bass side as I cannot read bass scores.

I've never played any type of instrument with a piano keyboard, but I'm told it is necessary for piano players to modify their touch on the accordion keys as they respond more like an organ than a piano. First basic is if there is no air there is no sound, and the bellows are something which require some attention to detail.

Having said all that I did manage to teach myself from method books, although I never quite had the discipline to do it properly, and ended up skipping through a lot of the "boring" stuff. Teaching yourself is possible, but some of us are better at that than others. What is encouraging is there are now a lot of invaluable accordion teaching videos available (a considerable number are to be found on You Tube), but again if you're not doing it correctly there is nobody there to tell you so.

Only caveat is that in my limited experience of it, the music of the Deiro Brothers isn't really beginners' fare, and I think you would need to start at a more elementary level until you got more familiar with how an accordion works.

I'm 65, and a lot of guys on here were older than I am when they started out. Assess yourself on your banjo playing skills. If others have commented positively on your playing ability then there is every chance you will reach a good level with the accordion. Only thing I'd say is don't expect the learning process to be quick compared with the banjo. At least you'll not get callouses on your fingertips with the accordion, but long fingernails on your right hand may be a stumbling block (or it would be if you were to play a button type accordion).

Providing you pick up an accordion in decent condition you can always sell it on again if it doesn't work out.

Other forum members, who are more knowledgeable than I am on piano accordions and your choice of music, will hopefully be able to be of more assistance.

To summarise. You can teach yourself, providing you accept that very few self taught individuals would be able to play exactly as per that recording you mention. However, a lot of accordionists are able to play more simplified versions of the classics to a very reasonable standard. It's just really a case of knowing what your limitations are likely to be when starting out later in life.

 

[Hoodoo]

Thanks for that very long and thoughtful answer

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Hoodoo,

Welcome to the forum, where I hope you will gain a balanced insight into the PA.

I agree with all that John (Maugein) has told you, but I feel obliged to point out the possible benefits of buying a Chinese made accordion to start out with.

You may have sufficient talent to start off with a 120/41 instrument, though it is usually better to begin the learning process on something a bit smaller. Many feel that a 72 Bass instrument is the right size to start, and I would concur.

I am not able to comment on the style of music you have mentioned, but would certainly advise you to master a simpler style to begin with.

You may well be inundated with advice on this forum, some of which may conflict. In the end, you must decide for yourself the way that is best for you.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[jozz]

some considerations:

- stay clear of expensive stuff, as long as you don't know if it's a phase (duh :mrgreen: )
- for that price you can find something decent, as long as the instrument is sold by an expert that vouches for what he/she sells (gives it an overhaul first, or takes it back if there are some major problems)
- also it's not so easy to sell on an instrument, so if you can find a repairer-type guy with a shop, that would be my way to go as you might trade it in later on
- a large second hand instrument can be as expensive/cheap as a small one (but for the style you want to play you need a larger one, or you cut some corners but it won't sound quite the same)
- if you have the talent self-teaching is certainly possible but it's going to be a long process either way to get to this level (not trying to put you off, just being realistic)

 

[donn]

Heck yeah. There are lots of very decent old accordions out there, for sale. And I mean old, not just 10 or 20 years, this stuff is going to be half a century old, so there's a lot to watch out for. If you're in an urban area, that's going to be fairly easy, just need some patience and the ability to visit strangers and say "no" to their accordions. Try to play every single note on the instrument, if you think you have a live one (and bear in mind that while they make the same note on push and pull, they aren't using the same reed, so you need to hear both.) You can open up an accordion pretty easily to inspect the reeds, by extracting some nails that pin the left and right cases to the bellows frames (the right piano case will be enough), so it might be a good idea to bring a small pair of pliers that don't look too scary. Rusty reeds are unfixable. Etc. If you get into this, you'll probably have more questions.

Hard to learn on your own? Well, there are things that can go wrong, but won't be a big problem, I'm guessing. You have a basis for knowing how to work your fingers (20 years isn't very long ago), you know music, and I guess you're smart enough not to teach yourself really bad habits. As others have relentless pounded home, you won't eclipse the virtuoso musicians of bygone days, but in a couple years you could have a very useful double.